Removing floor tile

[Wooden Skye]

I am renovating our bathroom.  Started removing the tile and discovered metal lathe under the tile and attached to the subfloor and the mortar.  Does anybody have a good method for getting the lathe off?  Or am I relegated to long and tedious work of going by hand.  At this point I don't even care about saving the subfloor.  I would cut out with reciprocating saw, but I an not sure which way the joist run, very old house.

 

[Old School Carpenter]

Wow, sounds like fun! [big grin] I would use a rotary hammer on chisel action only, with a scaling chisel.

Another option would be to bust the floor tile and mortar with a sledge and remove the lath afterwards. A diamond blade on a 4" grinder could also prove useful.

Just don't forget the dust mask whatever you do, Silicosis is a terrible way to die.

Mike

 

[JoggleStick]

Too easy- all you need is a really big tub of 'elbow grease'... : tongue

Hard to say without seeing it- but many times I've used a mattock...

Once you crack/ break up the tile bed with a sledge or jackhammer...
You basically have a whole lot of brick sized pieces all stubbornly held with lath, or chicken wire as is commonly found here...
Anyway, once you got it broke up you use a mattock- which is like a miners pick- but with a wider head like an adze.
Swinging the pick will give you plenty of heft to get under the bed and then lever it up.
The weight of the mattock head will tear the lath asunder...
Worst part of this job is de-nailing the sub-floor...

This is a really good job... For someone else.... Enjoy!

Oh yeah- it can get worse- you can find the walls built the same way with metal lath over timber slats- bit like 'ferro cement'... Just sayin....

 

[Alan m]

how about.
remove the tile. chip off any loos or high spots . then put a layer of leveling compound over it all and then retile.

 

[JoggleStick]

If I may, just remember the most important, but underrated, aspect of the bathroom is the waterproofing. Be Warned: If you get it wrong, or it prematurely fails, well you strip the whole bathroom out and start again..... Hint: just do it properly the first time....
I like (insist on my jobs) to get back to 'solid' original.
With respect- I've seen the topping methods done many times, they also have the highest rate of premature failures. Taking shortcuts at the foundation level is IMHO not best practice.
Again, there are many ways to skin the cat, but the most expensive mistake I see made- especially with bathrooms- see my warning above- is to not do it properly, or correctly the first time...... Just sayin....

As an aside- I'm never the cheapest quote cause there's always someone willing to 'cut corners/price' to get the job. OTOH- our (state) construction licensing board has kept figures on the consumer complaints within the building industry. Leaking bathrooms (premature failure of waterproofing) is the third highest complaint in the building industry. I have never had a premature failure- in 30+ years. Not bragging- just sayin I must be doin something right. I assure you, I sleep very well at night and so do my clients. Just sayin....

 

[Wooden Skye]

I forgot to mention the bathroom is on the second floor and subfloor is plywood.  I got about 75% of the lathe off the floor, using a hammer and pry bar.  The person that put this down must have put a nail in every inch.  Besides running out of steam, now it isn't coming up as well.  I may go buy a rotary hammer or just sawszall the rest.

JoggleStick,

I agree that waterproofing is my main concern, fear if you want to call it that.  This is my first big renovation project, so any tips people want to share, please do.  Right now my plan is to put down new subfloor, then ditra and tile.  In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile. 

At least today wasn't all work, I did manage to get a new Festool.

 

[JoggleStick]

Your standards will be different to mine (Australia) so you'll have to follow your own codes, etc. I'd simply suggest using a contractor, if you haven't done it before, and also it's important to considers the waterproofing, tile adhesive, grout, etc as a 'system' that needs to be planned out. There can be incompatibility issues between some waterproofing membranes and some tile adhesives.

I do read Fine Homebuilding and it's really quite fascinating to see the different ways the same trades do work with various different codes, etc. I'd love to get my hands on Kerdi sheet- we have nothing like that here. Nor do we use thinset in conjunction with waterproofing.  We typically line the walls and timber floors with cement sheeting, apply membrane with 2" aluminium angle at the doorway and form a shower tray, then lay a mortar bed to form the falls to both shower and bathroom floor wastes.
Lately, I've changed my system because I've now sourced a very quick drying floor screed that let's me waterproof over it only 4 hrs after laying the bed. I am currently using Mapei Aqua Defence ( because it is quick drying) as my membrane which is now on top of the floor bed and the tiles are stuck down directly to the membrane. I have sourced a specific puddle flange assembly that allows this system to be reliable... Obviously your screed and falls have to be spot on- but I'm fine with that.

Really, none of this helps you because you'll have to comply with your own code requirements, but I find it really interesting to hear and see the different ways we all achieve a similar outcome....

 

[JoggleStick]

As far as de-nailing the floor- IMHO nothing beats the Stanley 12" Wonder bar...

I have two and cannot destroy them no matter how hard I try. Hold the black end and whack the Yellow end on to the nail head, pry back, next....

 

[Kev]

As far as de-nailing the floor- IMHO nothing beats the Stanley 12" Wonder bar...

I have two and cannot destroy them no matter how hard I try. Hold the black end and whack the Yellow end on to the nail head, pry back, next....

Hah! .. my fav toothpick [wink]

I've even whacked it with a mallet to great effect.

 

[Old School Carpenter]

As far as de-nailing the floor- IMHO nothing beats the Stanley 12" Wonder bar...

I have two and cannot destroy them no matter how hard I try. Hold the black end and whack the Yellow end on to the nail head, pry back, next....

Then you must try the Vaughn Super bar!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FRE684MKL._SX342_.jpg

I retired my wonderbars in favor of the Vaughn design long ago.

Mike

 

[JoggleStick]

I'll keep an eye out for one : wink
I suspect they haven't made it to our sunny shores, yet...

 

[Paul G]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile. 

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

 

[cgraham]

My company has been using schluter products for many years now. I even have it in my own home with a radiant electric pad under it. Kerdi is easy to use. Just make sure you follow the instructions for the type of thinset to be used for the different applications. Ditra is the only product we use when it comes to decoupling. Purchasing schluter products can be expensive if you don't go to a distributor. In our area(dc metro) we have a really good distributor where we can get a whole shower kit for half price of a retail tile store.

 

[jtparrothead]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile. 

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

I don't see the point of using cement board when you are going to kerdi over it.  Save the customer some money and save your lungs from backerboard dust and just use sheetrock.  faster, easier, smarter.

 

[Paul G]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile. 

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

I don't see the point of using cement board when you are going to kerdi over it.  Save the customer some money and save your lungs from backerboard dust and just use sheetrock.  faster, easier, smarter.

I like the greater strength of hardibacker especially when tiling, and I'm my own customer so saving a few bucks on an inferior product isn't the point for me. Everyones mileage will vary.

 

[mopowers]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile.  

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

I don't see the point of using cement board when you are going to kerdi over it.  Save the customer some money and save your lungs from backerboard dust and just use sheetrock.  faster, easier, smarter.

I completely agree. Far too redundant and time consuming. We all know the power of German engineering, if its good enough for the engineers at Schluter its good enough for me. I feel it would not be financially responsible to a client for the extra labor of a redundant system. I dont meat to say you are wrong Paul G, just adding my two cents. I do admire you for striving to do better, you probably did a better job than many "pro's" would.

I prefer Kerdi board over Durock, Hardi or sheetrock. It is very quick to install and the printed grid pattern makes it easy for a precise and square install.  

 

[Paul G]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile.  

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

I don't see the point of using cement board when you are going to kerdi over it.  Save the customer some money and save your lungs from backerboard dust and just use sheetrock.  faster, easier, smarter.

I completely agree. Far too redundant and time consuming. We all know the power of German engineering, if its good enough for the engineers at Schluter its good enough for me. I feel it would not be financially responsible to a client for the extra labor of a redundant system. I dont meat to say you are wrong Paul G, just adding my two cents. I do admire you for striving to do better, you probably did a better job than many "pro's" would.

I prefer Kerdi board over Durock, Hardi or sheetrock. It is very quick to install and the printed grid pattern makes it easy for a precise and square install.  

No offense taken and the bolded part is a big reason why I try to do as much stuff as I can myself.  Mine is the bathroom some contractor will be complaining about in a forum in 40 years wondering why the hardibacker and so many damned screws.

 

[ScotF]

I am in the middle of my bathroom remodel and have used Kerdi over Hardibacker and I am pleased with the result.  I thought that code required CBU, regardless of the membrane/waterproofing.  I know that Kerdi can be used over dry wall and that it meets manufacturers specs, but I wanted to make sure I am up to code regardless.  Luckily I do not have to cut this stuff all day, every day as it does make a mess for sure.  But, I am happy with the outcomes so far.  The Schluter stuff is amazing product to be sure.

Scot

 

[tjbnwi]

Most (if not all) building codes have a clause that allows manufactures specs and other tested methods to apply. In this case the TCNA has a section on membrane applications.

Tom

 

[jtparrothead]

In the shower I am going to use cement board and then my waterproofing membrane (not sure which one) then tile. 

I've had great success using Schluter Kerdi with their drain system. I was skeptical of thinset bonding to it for wall tile but I even used it on the shower ceiling and no signs of trouble even after a few mild earthquakes. It was all backed with 1/2" Hardibacker cement board.

I don't see the point of using cement board when you are going to kerdi over it.  Save the customer some money and save your lungs from backerboard dust and just use sheetrock.  faster, easier, smarter.

I like the greater strength of hardibacker especially when tiling, and I'm my own customer so saving a few bucks on an inferior product isn't the point for me. Everyones mileage will vary.

Not real clear as to why sheetrock would be considered an inferior product for said application.  I guess the question I have for you is what kind of actions are going to be performed in this shower that makes you worry about destroying a tiled wall  ???    ???