Sander recommendation

[bruceinCT]

Hello,

I am looking for a recommendation for a sander(s) for doing window restoration.  I am in the process of restoring all the double hung windows in my home.  It is a terribly time consuming process if not hazardous with the old lead paint.  I use an infrared lamp to remove what I can of the old paint but some times need to get a sander in there and I always have to sand after scraping and epoxy and primer work.  So I am looking for something that can remove material but also finish sand.  Initially I was thinking of the RO 125 and then a RTS 400 but maybe all I need is the RO 90.  Obviously festools dust management is worth the price alone for this dirty work.  Will the 90 be aggressive enough to remove paint in stubborn areas?

Since these are windows obviously there is not a lot of surface area.  Also the sills will also all be stripped, sanded and painted.  Anything that speeds up my process and improves safety is worth the investment.  Also there are plenty of othwr projects that I can use these for as well including some door work (which would probably benefit from the larger 125??)

Love to hear any real world usage opinions. 

Thanks

Bruce

 

[irishman]

Which parts of the window are you sanding?  I have the RO150, ETS150, and RO90.  My default would be the RO90, but if you're sanding lots of trim work, the linear sander might be best because you can get something to match the trim profile.  The RO90 will sand plenty aggressive enough for you.  That's not an issue.  It all depends on exactly what you're sanding.

 

[SS Teach]

RO 90, no question. You also need the set of 3 edge guards. The 3.5 inch disc and delta pad are great for windows. The LS 130 a linear sander would also work. The RO 125 has a 4.9 inch disc. The RTS 400 is an orbital sander. The main reason I opted for the RO 90 and edge guard set, was windows. 

 

[Kev]

RO 90 hands down.

The DTS400 can do useful stuff too, but I personally would use the RO on badly weathered paint.

 

[bruceinCT]

I would be sanding stiles, rails and sills.  The LS 130 is a neat little sander but I wonder how well it could sand the profiles on the mutins and inside of rails and stiles.  I've been leaving them alone for the most part unless they are in bad shape and just giving them a hand sand on the outer layer to smooth and paint without getting down to the lead layer.  Mostly it's the sides and rails that need to be stripped because they have so many layers of paint it interferes with how they operate.  The glazing side of the window also needs to be sanded and stripped but that's a straight rabbet.

I don't know if the budget is there for the LS as it is so specialized I wonder how often I would use it for other things.  I also wonder about the effectiveness of dust collection on such a small surface area.  Wish the LS was less $$$. 

Anyone have paper rec's as well for the 90 - paint removal, wood surfacing, then quick primer sanding.

 

[tbellemare]

I have used the RO 90 on multiple doors with lites and got good results. I would also recommend the Window Protector Set. I didn't use it at first, thinking I could just use finesse but I scratched some glass I didn't want to.

The RO 90 with Granat should handle everything you've mentioned well.

Tom

 

[bruceinCT]

Thanks Tom!

Glass will be out for all my work but I will check out that protector set.  Looking forward to using this.  I had been using my multi-tool but it was a real PITA and was awkward with the vacuum attachment.

 

[Holmz]

I would be sanding stiles, rails and sills.  The LS 130 is a neat little sander but I wonder how well it could sand the profiles on the mutins and inside of rails and stiles. 
...
Wish the LS was less $$$. 
...

If there is someone with the LS130 I would be interested to hear more.
It is one of the few sanders I am interested in.

I suspect that it is more useful in the case than a circular sander, once the flats are done.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I suspect that it is more useful in the case than a circular sander, once the flats are done.

It is mainly a profiles specialist. On all other surfaces, any Festool sander outperforms it.

Some people rave about it because it is exactly what they need, and then there are many people who never even look at it. I owned one and sold it again. It's linear motion is a must on profiles, but is slower than orbital or random orbit on other surfaces. 

 

[rst]

It is more of a specialty sander.  I use mine for plastic radius edge work.  I am in the process of using mine currently to sand my Adirondack chairs.  I bought an extra standard pad and cut both out side edges so that it will fit the slats as they curve and narrow at the bottom.  As it is a linear sander with a fairly fine stroke, it doesn't cut as rigorously as most of the other Festool sanders.  I would compare it to my ETS-125, not really meant for making clouds of dust.

 

[Holmz]

I suspect that it is more useful in the case than a circular sander, once the flats are done.

It is mainly a profiles specialist. On all other surfaces, any Festool sander outperforms it.

Some people rave about it because it is exactly what they need, and then there are many people who never even look at it. I owned one and sold it again. It's linear motion is a must on profiles, but is slower than orbital or random orbit on other surfaces.

Every widow I look at (if I am not looking through the glass) seems to have big flat sections that would sand in no time with just anything including a putty knife, chisel, plane, scraper...

Not only would any other Festool sander would out perform it, ANY sander would out perform it (other than the DX93)

...However all I see are a bunch of linear nooks and crannies that the LS130 looks like it should excel at.

I am guessing it was not that useful for you?
or
Did it did you get everything done with it and sold it on.

Or do they just look more useful to me than the turn out to be in practice?

 

[TheTrooper]

The LS130 is a great sander but won't give you a fine finish compared to the RO90 or DTS 400

 

[Cheese]

I own the LS 130 and for what I need it for it's perfect. It has a 4mm stroke so it removes material faster than you'd expect. I'm presently sanding a bunch of windows as shown in the photo below. Previously I had to fold up sandpaper and sand by hand for hours. These windows are all 6' tall. 

I also use it to sand the rounded edge of an outside teak table, I just install the Radius 18 Concave Pad (490 164) and sand away.

I removed ceramic tile from a plaster wall then installed the Scraper Blade (491 199) on the LS 130 and removed the remaining tile mastic.

There were several scratches on the top front of a Wolf range from people hitting it with cooking utensils and ??. I put some 3M Scotch Brite on the LS 130 and blended the scratches into the existing grained stainless surface. Saved $400 for a new front panel.

I'm going to try using it to straight-line stainless rather than using my belt sander.

[attachthumb=1]

 

[bruceinCT]

Here are the profiles I am dealing with.  Honestly, if you can strip them cleanly than it is almost easier to use a soft sanding sponge to smooth it out.  There is a cope and bead profile.  I would be interested in knowing if the LS 130 can tackle these effectively....

 

[SS Teach]

You would have to make your own profile, but even then it would be iffy. Making the profiles is not difficult. A cabinet scraper would come in handy to get into the tight areas.

 

[Holmz]

I don't see anything on that last frame that looks like territory for an RO90...(?)
The stripping and scraping make sense though.

 

[Cheese]

Here are the profiles I am dealing with.  Honestly, if you can strip them cleanly than it is almost easier to use a soft sanding sponge to smooth it out.  There is a cope and bead profile.  I would be interested in knowing if the LS 130 can tackle these effectively....

Well your profile doesn't seem to be too bad. Smooth, gentle, small & large radius. I guess it just depends upon whether you want to strip to bare wood or you just want to sand to obtain a paintable surface. I've previously installed all of my windows so I know the paint history of each of them. Some were coated with 5 coats of a water based clear poly product while some others (like the picture shown) were primed with oil based primer and then top coated with 2 or 3 coats of oil based Sherwin Williams paint. I just sanded until I got what appeared to be a crisp, smooth, even paintable surface. Then I top coated with 2 more coats of oil based SW paint for a color change. 

From what I can see, that profile (small concave radius, small convex radius, large concave radius) would only be sandable by hand or with a LS 130. A RO 90 would not do well for that profile except for that flat region that appears to be 1/2"-3/4" wide.

Paint stripper along with a custom formed cabinet scraper might also work if you want to get to bare wood and maintain the existing profile.

 

[Kev]

I don't see anything on that last frame that looks like territory for an RO90...(?)
The stripping and scraping make sense though.

Yep - even using interface pads you'll still flatten rather tha sand the profile.

A lot will depend on the integrity of the exiting paint layers.

 

[bruceinCT]

Sorry for the miscommunication.  The RO 90 would only be used for the flats of the rails and stiles and the flats on the glazing side of the window muntin.  I would not attempt to use it on the profiles.  As mentioned before, I have tended to leave them alone unless in really bad shape and just light sand with a soft sanding sponge to create a paintable surface.  Scraping them is a bear as well because they are easily damaged by a sharp tool.  The areas that typically need to be stripped are the stiles because they have had so much paint build up they won't operate as smoothly.  Also when you strip using infrared, the surface needs finishing.

The advantage really of the festools are the dust collection as we all know the dangers of lead dust in the air.

LS 130 may be able to get into the profiles but probably not worth the effort and best to leave them be unless damaged I'm thinking.

Custom scraper matched to the profile is possible though and would make sense if the profile is shared among all the windows.

 

[TheFinestCut]

I have the LS130; RO125 and a couple others.  Base on the pic you sent I would not go with a RO90 because I think you will flatten out part of that profile.  Even though the LS will not take away material anywhere near as fast as any of the RO sanders in Rotex mode, it will be more appropriate for that application.  I say the LS130 with the part #490780 do it yourself kit.  This will give you the ability to make a custom shaped sanding block for the 130.  No damage to the existing profile and will even clean up any dings you have in it by following the profile exactly. 

The LS is definitely not aggressive in sanding but will do the job with the appropriate sandpaper. I would go 80 then 120, should make it nice and smooth enough for paint grade.