side by side comparison, Festool Kapex on Kapex UG v. DeWalt/DeWalt

[WoodWhisperer]

I think my heart would have stopped beating [eek]  I totally treat my kapex like its a bomb and if I drop it, it blows!!  But I do know things happen!  Hope its ok. What part of town  do you work mostly?

North side mostly but this job was near county line rd. I live on south side so I really like it when I get the rare job close to home. Love the basement jobs to. Here's some pics of job.

[/quote]

Im lucky that I work mostly in the center grove and Franklin area! Close to home.  I'm working in a basement right now and cant complain. 90+ outside and nice and cool in the basement!!

 

[peter halle]

Like the jog on the handrail.  Domino?

Peter

 

[Sean7a]

Like the jog on the handrail.  Domino?

Peter

I echo Peter's comments, very neat rail.  Subtle too

 

[festooltim]

No domino don't have one. Just glue some brads and long pocket screws from underneath and covered by fillet piece. Offset in wall of 1-3/4" seemed like good solution.

 

[City Properties Inc]

I have the 12" dewalt dual bevel.  The bearing are going out on it!  I just got the OK from my bosses to buy the Kapex!!  I can not wait to pick it up. [big grin] 

First day with my new Kapex!! Holy cow what an awesome saw!! I think it will take some time to get use to but I think I am going to love it!  Learned a trick pretty quick with it, you don't have to hold the green thumb bottom down the whole time.  Once you get the saw turned on you can release and its a little more comfortable for me since I've been using a dewalt for along time!!
Anybody else using a Midi with the Kapex? Does the 36mm hose make a difference?

I have the KAPEX/MIDI combo on the UG Cart with my custom caster set and mounting plate for the MIDI. I use the 36 mm hose shortened. It works very well. Consider buying one of the cleaning sets which comes with a 36 mm hose and the tubes and sweep head in a systainer. This is a bargain compared to buying the hose outright. Then it won't be so painful to cut the hose to a shorter length which looks better and also works more efficiently!
[attachimg=#1]
My beloved KAPEX on its UG stand with the CT MIDI resting on its custom mounting plate with shortened 36 mm hose. My UG stand has caster wheels mounted on a cantilevered plate so I can move the saw without the need to tip it on the stand. This prevents the possibility of the saw being tipped too far over and crashing to the floor.

Hi Tom do you have picts of what the K looks like when it's opened / set up on the UG? It's a great Idea and I have contemplating buying the UG. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[TomGadwa1]

I have the 12" dewalt dual bevel.  The bearing are going out on it!  I just got the OK from my bosses to buy the Kapex!!  I can not wait to pick it up. [big grin] 

First day with my new Kapex!! Holy cow what an awesome saw!! I think it will take some time to get use to but I think I am going to love it!  Learned a trick pretty quick with it, you don't have to hold the green thumb bottom down the whole time.  Once you get the saw turned on you can release and its a little more comfortable for me since I've been using a dewalt for along time!!
Anybody else using a Midi with the Kapex? Does the 36mm hose make a difference?

I have the KAPEX/MIDI combo on the UG Cart with my custom caster set and mounting plate for the MIDI. I use the 36 mm hose shortened. It works very well. Consider buying one of the cleaning sets which comes with a 36 mm hose and the tubes and sweep head in a systainer. This is a bargain compared to buying the hose outright. Then it won't be so painful to cut the hose to a shorter length which looks better and also works more efficiently!
[attachimg=#1]
My beloved KAPEX on its UG stand with the CT MIDI resting on its custom mounting plate with shortened 36 mm hose. My UG stand has caster wheels mounted on a cantilevered plate so I can move the saw without the need to tip it on the stand. This prevents the possibility of the saw being tipped too far over and crashing to the floor.

Hi Tom do you have picts of what the K looks like when it's opened / set up on the UG? It's a great Idea and I have contemplating buying the UG. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

Of course! I took the liberty to configure my KAPEX with the UG LEFT AND RIGHT extensions. This will give a perspective of how big the unit is with the UG full blown setup. OF course the cantilevered caster set and CT MIDI plate are my design so it is NAFF. (NOT AVAILABLE FROM FESTOOL)!! The total length of the setup is about 16 feet. The height is just under five feet with the depth just under three feet.
[attachimg=#1]
The KAPEX on the UG cart ready for some cutting!
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Three quarter view of the UG Stand and extensions.
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Looking down the right side extension.
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Another view from the right side extension.
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View of my 36 mm hose to the CT MIDI.
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View of the CT MIDI resting on its custom mounting plate.
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View of the custom cantilevered castor plate.
[attachimg=#8]
View of the left extension all the way out. Note that the reading on the tape is very accurate.
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Left extension pushed in slightly, the reading is still quite accurate.
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View showing the stop on the right extension.
[attachimg=#11]
The stop deployed and ready for use.
[attachimg=#12]
The KAPEX on the UG cart with the extensions removed.

 

[Grasshopper]

Stairman,

I wanted to revive this old post as I have been scouring the net to see if there are any real "head to head" comparisons of a Dewalt SCMS vs. the Kapex.  I wan't sure if you had the old video you shot to share, or if you could elaborate on the main differences relating to cut quality (as well as which Dewalt you had).

I realize dust collection, portability, footprint are hot buttons for most.  My future saw will sit in one place in my garage, so not a huge item for me (although dust collection is a plus).

Your thread especially hit close to home for me as I have a Dewalt 780 brand new in the box, that I am on the fence about opening, or returning and tripling my investment into the Kapex.  I'm at best a DIY weekend warrior, so daily use isn't ever going to happen.

I installed an entire house of crown molding yesterday, and really had a great opportunity to compare my Kapex to the DeWalt it has replaced.

Has anyone else here ever setup the kapex side by side with another SCMS?
the differences are surprising when you do this, and I would suggest trying it if you get the chance to make some good comparisons like I did yesterday.

The mess made by the DeWalt was horrendous.  -you can't truly appreciate the effectiveness unless you experience the difference SIDE BY SIDE,  but to try to explain,  6-8 cuts on the DeWalt sprays out the same as the Kapex making 120-150 cuts of the same material.
my smartphone video didn't turn out well enough to share, so I will try this again when I have a better camera setup with a tripod...

across the board, it was really a night and day difference.  initially, I was thinking to myself that I would probably end up using one saw for initial LH cuts and the other for the TH cut,  but the comparison was akin to taking the DeWalt slider and comparing it to a Harbor Freight SCMS, and after just a few cuts, you no longer want to touch the inferior tool

-and to think I had been using the DeWalt saw/laser/Folding aluminum DeWalt "sawhorse" type stand for years all the while believing it was industry standard quality tool system :-\

another BIG thanks to Festool for the end all - be all of professional tools!  The Kapex + Kapex UG system is a priceless addition to my arsenal!

and for anyone trying to decide if Festool is really worth the price:  YES, they certainly are, and more...

 

[curt boyer]

You mean like this! This is mainly about the differences in the two saw stands but I'll try to answer both. The Dewalt stand setup similar to what I have is cheap and sturdy. The UG stand is expensive and isn't  big enough to be practical for me doing site work. Also moving finished materials across metal tables increases the chance of damage. The wings in the picture are 5', I also have an 8' set that is drilled like an MFT which is really handy for job site work. I'd spend the money in the saw and build yourself a nice solid bench for it if it's going to mainly stay in the shop.

I was doing a kitchen cabinet installation with a two piece crown and this is what I used. The first piece was a L-shaped backer that was too big to cut with the Kapex. I have a Forrest blade on the Dewalt and it cuts great for a 12" saw. If you are going to be doing mainly finish work then it's the Kapex all day long! Lighter, lasers, easy bevel adjustment, dust collection, and smaller foot print. If you doing general carpentry then the Dewalt will get the job done. I can't speak for the current Dewalt as mine was the first gen model. If you plan on moving or bevels on the Dewalt forget about it. It's heavy and cumbersome to quickly and repeatedly change bevels.
Cheers
Curt[attachimg=1]

 

[Grasshopper]

Awesome!  Thanks for sharing that. What an awesome setup.

I'm leaning the way of the Kapex.

I went to a festool dealer today and played with it. I LOVED the bevel adjustment.

On the other hand, the swivel on the miter base crazy stiff. I messed with two separate display models, at two separate dealers and felt the same thing. It was almost too stiff to slide with one hand. Is this normal for those of you with the kapex? 

The sales guy at the first place was making things up as to why that is a good thing. The second place, the guy admitted it was pretty stiff and didn't know why. (He said maybe it will loosen up over time...which seemed fishy to me).

On the other hand,  nearby store had the dewalt...smooth as could be. I could swivel with one finger, and clamp down really nice.

Help!

You mean like this! This is mainly about the differences in the two saw stands but I'll try to answer both. The Dewalt stand setup similar to what I have is cheap and sturdy. The UG stand is expensive and isn't  big enough to be practical for me doing site work. Also moving finished materials across metal tables increases the chance of damage. The wings in the picture are 5', I also have an 8' set that is drilled like an MFT which is really handy for job site work. I'd spend the money in the saw and build yourself a nice solid bench for it if it's going to mainly stay in the shop.

I was doing a kitchen cabinet installation with a two piece crown and this is what I used. The first piece was a L-shaped backer that was too big to cut with the Kapex. I have a Forrest blade on the Dewalt and it cuts great for a 12" saw. If you are going to be doing mainly finish work then it's the Kapex all day long! Lighter, lasers, easy bevel adjustment, dust collection, and smaller foot print. If you doing general carpentry then the Dewalt will get the job done. I can't speak for the current Dewalt as mine was the first gen model. If you plan on moving or bevels on the Dewalt forget about it. It's heavy and cumbersome to quickly and repeatedly change bevels.
Cheers
Curt[attachimg=1]

 

[curt boyer]

My Kapex moves with one hand with no problem. i lube mine when it starts to get rough. The Dewalt is smoother but I wouldn't let it be a deal breaker.
Cheers
Curt

 

[peter halle]

My Kapex is stiffer than many of the other brands, but a dry spray lube on the bottom really made it be one handed.  The bevel feature is so so so sweet.

Peter

 

[Grasshopper]

OK, so I went to Dealer #3 today and played with their floor model Kapex (yes, I have a patient wife).

That Kapex moved smoothly (albeit with more tension than the Dewalt).  It was night and day from the previous two.

I am not exaggerating, it was really hard to swivel with the first two Kapex saws.  I have read that the earlier version had a recall relating to the handle which created tension when miter cutting.  This was quite a while ago, so I would be shocked that either dealer would have one that old sitting around.  I'd imagine it would make it hard for them to sell the Kapex though.  I really can't believe nobody seemed to notice or know anything at both dealers.

If I had felt the smooth miter action on the first saw (like I did when visiting the 3rd dealer)…I'd probably own one right now.  As it stands, I am nervous I have to admit as I would opt to order from an online dealer, with the variation I have felt.

Any thoughts out there (or prior experience/explanation) regarding the miter adjustment being really stiff on the two, and not the 3rd (a two handed, push and grunt job)?  This wasn't anything that spraying a lube would solve, it really felt like grinding metal almost like the miter lock on the handle was partially engaged, even though it wasn't.

 

[peter halle]

I wouldn't make the assumption that the Kapex's that were really stiff weren't some of the early ones that had the part that was too thick.  Dealers aren't allow to sell their displays under most situations and there is no guarantee that the replacement parts were installed.  Stranger things have happened.

If I were you I wouldn't be afraid that a new in box Kapex would be like those two.  A whole lot of time has passed since the early days of the Kapex here in NA.  And you always have Festool on your side.

Peter

 

[Harvey]

Well, two parts of  the Festool ‘deal’ are that you can return within thirty days- so if your Kapex isn’t as good as that third dealer’s send it back and pick up another one. Remember you’re paying a premium price for that ability, so use it. The second part is Festool’s pricing is the same country wide, so why not order it from the dealer you want to deal with? Explain to them want you want and go for it.

 

[Throwback7r]

are you sure the Kapex miter lock was not on? that would cause stiffness.

 

[Grasshopper]

Thanks everybody for the responses.

Yes, I am sure the miter lock was off (I tested on and off. When on, it doesn't budge at all.)

Also, the 30 day return isnt as big a deal for me since I have to take back my Dewalt to the store first. I paid $200 less than it is going for now, so if I get the Kapex and don't like it. I'll probably have to pony up more money to buy back the same saw.

I'm still shocked that both dealers didn't recogninze a problem without my pointing it out. Hmmmm?

 

[Throwback7r]

I find that my local dealer does push people AWAY from Festool.

 

[Dan Clark]

My Kapex is stiffer than many of the other brands, but a dry spray lube on the bottom really made it be one handed.  The bevel feature is so so so sweet.

Peter

Peter,

What dry lube did you use?  Where exactly did you spray it?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[NEW2FES]

How is it a side by side comparison if you only mention the difference in dust collection?

Take your Kapex, set it up 5 cuts, install new blade now do the exact same thing to your Dewalt. Make the exact same cut in the exact same wood and show us what the differences are and what was made easier. That is a comparison otherwise I am not even sure what 2 pages of??? was about?

By the way I am in no way saying one is better then the other I am just showing how internet cheer leading is a little biased. Also the Kapex is crown size challenged so I am assuming small crown molding? Ok, one Kapex jab but honestly I just like to see honest comparisons so the right tool wins.

 

[Grasshopper]

OK, I wanted to report back (tail tucked) and say I went back to the first dealer to see the Kapex again.  Perhaps the miter lock was on, because I made point to unlock and it moved just fine (a little stiff, but much better).  I was surprised that it WOULD move when locked, which isn't the case with the Dewalt.  I'm not sure when you'd put that much horizontal pressure on the miter handle between cuts... but if you did, your angle would be off a degree or two (granted, you do need to crank it).

I wanted to clear that up since I know folks rely on this feedback when making decisions (including yours truly). 

So now, I am comfortable with the bevel swivel and lock.  The Miter swivel and lock.  Cut quality seems awesome.  It really seems to boil down to all the pro's already listed.  I saw the dust collection in the showroom and it seemed pretty sweet.  (one of the guys at the shop was super cool and actually had some experience with a 12" Dewalt.)  Consensus was that the Dewalt pukes dust everywhere.  I'm planning to decide this week whether I will unbox the big yellow beast, or pull the Kapex trigger.

I would love to see a head to head video focused on dust collection (as far as I have searched, no such video exists).  Anybody know of such a video (or is bored enough to just make one) , feel free to indulge the inquiring mind ;D.

Thanks again, FOG is a great place!!!