Small shop/modular work surfaces (AKA how to cram 10# in a 5# sack...)

[Tinker]

Richard,
I am sure your shop will have many sensible innovations.  I will be watching closely.

I am with those who wood go with the 45º French Cleats.  With 3/4" half lap there wood be a chance for the cleat tongue to rip off.  A very minor split will have a tendency to travel.  with very straight grained wood, it could travel the length of the cleat.  If using plywood and ripping cleats, you end up losing a lot of strength at the lips of the cleats.

I am planning to build (redo) my own shop and like the FC system.  I have almost no wall space along one wall and am planning to construct 2'x3'(+/) cabinets/shelves, some with doors that also contain tools or whatever.  There could be a lot more weight than I might wish to hang on a T&G type of cleat.  I am sure, from experience, that once I have rearranged all on FC's I will think of a better (?) arrangement and rearrange again. and again and................

I think the angled cleats will stand up to my own bad habits much better.

Tinker

 

[wow]

I've followed some of your posts on materials, etc. You do have an eye for a bargain. Did you ever figure out what to do with the purplish composite panels you acquired?

RMW

I just figured out the first project/use for some of them. I am going to use the 1" material to make steps up to the mezzanine in the shop. They will actually be oversized - by a LOT - since I will use the area between each step for storage. Each step will extend back to a landing area, giving me up to 5' of space for storing long, thin cut-offs and 'stuff'.

I haven't yet decided if I will access the cubbies by somehow opening or removing the risers, or if I will fashion some kind of pull-out drawer or tray. Fortunately I don't have to decide that right now.

 

[rmwarren]

Finally made a bit of progress on the shop, after weeks of fiddling with other projects I focused on the primary MFT/sys-cart/workbench design and took the plunge. I decided to get this done first since it will consolidate some of my storage and hold stuff that I will otherwise need to move anyway to finish the electrical and other work.

The design follows several of my "guiding principals", including being modular, on casters and my standard height of 37". Yesterday I got the frame done in < 4 hours, which involved cutting the 80/20, drilling access holes for the hardware and doing a dry fit. It is ~56" long, 32" deep and the top will be 37" high.

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The design is meant to use the minimum amount of hardware, as a single 80/20 corner bracket can cost $5, they add up fast. I am using the standard end fasteners for everything except the top connection of the 1530 extrusions, which will get another corner bracket.

There will be 3 sections each sized for Systainers , using 28" full-extension drawer glides to get 2-deep, should be able to fit 18-20 total.  I plan to make an MFT-style top, so I will need to leave room to reach under it for clamping, etc. This will give me a large shelf over the systainers that should serve to store large squares & straight edges, as well as catching lots of sawdust...

Back to the shop to start cutting panels.  [thumbs up]

RMW

 

[lawhoo]

Very nice start, Richard.  What are you using to cut the 8020?  I have aluminum blades for the TS 55 and Kapex, as well as a 14" blade for a cutoff saw that I could borrow from a friend.  I would prefer to use the cutoff saw, but it's a single-speed (3,900 RPM) Ridgid, and I wonder whether I should cut the extrusions at a lower speed.

 

[rmwarren]

Very nice start, Richard.  What are you using to cut the 8020?  I have aluminum blades for the TS 55 and Kapex, as well as a 14" blade for a cutoff saw that I could borrow from a friend.  I would prefer to use the cutoff saw, but it's a single-speed (3,900 RPM) Ridgid, and I wonder whether I should cut the extrusions at a lower speed.

The saw is a Milwaukee dry-cut designed for metal, only 1,500 rpm, blade is Oshlun 14" 100 tooth non-ferrous metals. I am not sure the rpm rating on the blade but 3,900 sounds a bit too fast to me. @ 1,500 it cuts beautifully.

RMW

 

[Tinker]

Great so far, Richard.
I am slowly getting my shop organized.  The pictures are still in my head, of course.

I tried out doing a couple of tools chests (one under my CMS) and am trying 3 wheeled concept.  My shop floor is very uneven and often, when i roll a bench or tool into working area, if all four feet are on uneven floor, I need a shingle or two to stop the rocking. With three wheels, I stop the rocking.  the bench may not be level, but at least i can work without the work surface rocking all around.

I have tried a couple of chests, one with the single wheel in front and one with the single wheel in back.  The single wheel in back works best.  With single wheel in front, the chest becomes unstable when pulling out drawers to get at tools or machines.  the heavier the tool, the more unstable.  With the single wheel in back, I do not notice any unstability.  I have not tried doing three wheels on any work bench, but thinking of trying.

Tinker

 

[lawhoo]

Very nice start, Richard.  What are you using to cut the 8020?  I have aluminum blades for the TS 55 and Kapex, as well as a 14" blade for a cutoff saw that I could borrow from a friend.  I would prefer to use the cutoff saw, but it's a single-speed (3,900 RPM) Ridgid, and I wonder whether I should cut the extrusions at a lower speed.

The saw is a Milwaukee dry-cut designed for metal, only 1,500 rpm, blade is Oshlun 14" 100 tooth non-ferrous metals. I am not sure the rpm rating on the blade but 3,900 sounds a bit too fast to me. @ 1,500 it cuts beautifully.

RMW

Thanks.  The speed was my concern, so that's good to know.

 

[rvieceli]

I think that Milwaukee has discontinued the saw that Richard has. So if you see one that is working properly, you might want to pick it up.

 

[rmwarren]

I've heard good things about the Evolution saw: http://www.evolutionpowertools.com/

I owned the DeWalt and hated the clamping mechanise, when I saw the Milwaukee @ Grizzly's showroom I grabbed it and sold the DeWalt.

RMW

 

[Tinker]

I checked out the site for Evolution Saws.  Amazing.
The chop saw vid was interesting that there is almost no heat buildup.  They say "...no heat...". That is hard to believe.  But I scrolled a little more and it showed a guy cutting steel "I" beam with a handheld circular saw.  The guy was using it at nearly shoulder height and using it freehand cutting into the end of the beam cutting off the flanges. That would be quite scary to me without some sort of stabilizing support.  And the blade teeth look to have a very definite positive hook like a wood cutting blade wood have.  A smooth finish cut was the result with perfect fit and finish.  Wow!
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

I checked out the site for Evolution Saws.  Amazing.
The chop saw vid was interesting that there is almost no heat buildup.  They say "...no heat...". That is hard to believe.  But I scrolled a little more and it showed a guy cutting steel "I" beam with a handheld circular saw.  The guy was using it at nearly shoulder height and using it freehand cutting into the end of the beam cutting off the flanges. That would be quite scary to me without some sort of stabilizing support.  And the blade teeth look to have a very definite positive hook like a wood cutting blade wood have.  A smooth finish cut was the result with perfect fit and finish.  Wow!
Tinker

No heat for sure, it was the same for the Dewalt and Milwaukee. My saw goes thru steel or aluminum like butter, using different blades of course.

When I first started metal working I used abrasive blades and always hated the mess, sparks and smell. When I got the first slow cut saw (sometimes called cold cut saws) it was unreal the difference.

RMW

 

[Tinker]

The biggest surprise for me is the size and hook of the teeth.
just thinking of that scares me.
Tinker

 

[mike_aa]

I bought one of the small Evolution (7 1/4") chop saws to have for occasional cuts around the house.  I cut some 3/4 black pipe with it recently and the cutting was smooth and spark free.  Only problem was the cut was somewhat inconsistent and not completely square.  It looked like the blade was drifting as it cut.  Could be user error, but I tried to made sure the saw and work were squared and varied how fast I pushed the blade through.  The blade and arm didn't seem to have wobble either, I just couldn't get a better result.  Though, it was great to make the cut without any sparking even if I did have to clean up the cut a bit.

Mike A.

 

[Tinker]

This discussion is the very first time i have ever heard of the cool cutting of metal saws.  I can see why RMW has one in his shop if he is doing any kind of metal cutting.  I am blessed  [unsure] [unsure] with a small shop and do sometimes need tot cut a piece of metal.  The only tool i will use for that is with a hand powered hacksaw.  With proximity of sawdust from very fine sanding dust to larger particles from TS 55 and routers to shavings from hand planer, one spark could spell disaster.  I do all metal cutting out side or in the barn.  I, so far, do no woodworking in the barn.

Niether my cellar shop, nor my barn work area is spacious enough to work both wood and natal inside of the same areas.  The 7-1/4" saw that Mike mentions seems like perfect for a small shop where not much metal work, but some, is done.  I wonder if a couple of large stabilizing washers on the blade would solve your problem of blade wandering.
Tinker

 

[mike_aa]

The 7-1/4" saw that Mike mentions seems like perfect for a small shop where not much metal work, but some, is done.  I wonder if a couple of large stabilizing washers on the blade would solve your problem of blade wandering.
Tinker

Tinker, That's a good idea.  There are smaller diameter washers on the saw and I suppose they could be replaced with larger ones.  I remember using some stabilizers to tame the blade wobble on an old 12" table saw I have. 

Since this was the first and only time I used the Evolution saw, I probably should try it out on other cuts to see if it performs any better.  The pipe I cut was common steel gas/water pipe.  Maybe it will work better when cutting angle or tubular shaped steel of a different quality.  The saw works well for my occasional use even if I end up having to clean up the cut a bit. 

Mike A.

 

[Tinker]

Do those blades run cool even if slightly dull?  Not saying i would run a dull blade on purpose. Sometimes the first clue a blade is dull is not by quick visual inspection, but more from difficulties in making a cut.

Also, will sparks fly if hitting something like a grain of sand imbedded in a metal casting?
Tinker

 

[rst]

In regard to the  remarks concerning speed when cutting aluminum, I am a storefront contractor and use 10" and 14" Makitas.  Aluminum can be cut at full speed of the saw, although for thick extrusions I lub with WD-40.  Cutting steel is another matter which is why the ceramic blades are used at a slower speed.  I also install steel entrances and I use a PC Saw Boss with a 15 amp router controller to reduce speed.  I also use Milwaukees 18V cordless metal cutting saws to install lite kits.  I have a Milwaukee mini bandsaw to cut thick steel onsite.  The most amazing aspect of the steel cutting blades is the finished cut is almost smooth enough to run your finger over and the chips are as file as filings.

 

[sancho57]

Hi Richard,

I just saw this thread ad Im a little late to the party. I moved from a decent size shop in the states to a small shop in the UK. I used a lot of spur shelving to hold my tools and systainers. If I had to do it all over again I would build me a guido type wall taking up one complete wall. It would give me just about all the storage I would need for tools (systainers) and screws finishes etc.. It should give you the rest of your floor space for your MFTs/CMS etc, I also suggest you use the available wall space.

 

[rmwarren]

Hi Richard,

I just saw this thread ad Im a little late to the party. I moved from a decent size shop in the states to a small shop in the UK. I used a lot of spur shelving to hold my tools and systainers. If I had to do it all over again I would build me a guido type wall taking up one complete wall. It would give me just about all the storage I would need for tools (systainers) and screws finishes etc.. It should give you the rest of your floor space for your MFTs/CMS etc, I also suggest you use the available wall space.

Thanks jobsworth, I forgot about the chaos wall. Have to consider that, although my initial concern is losing the space for the bench top tools. Needs some more thought.

RMW

 

[sancho57]

I only have a couple of bench top tools. They are really that heavy. I set them on spur shelving. For the heavier one I added a extra up right. I set my systainers 2 high, meaning, 500 domino with the domino accessory systainer on top of it, so I can grab both at once.
I use  combo delta belt/ 5" disk sander a lot. So I set that on the lower shelf and under it Ill hang my hoses. I made a place for my 1080  and 2 1400 rails and 2 1400 holy rails so I can hang them on the wall right next to my parallel guides. Since Im working from home ad only doing 8 hrs today, I should ba able to get some shop time in. ill take a photo of what Im talking about. It isnt pretty Rick but as Im renting this place for a couple of years it does work. Ill make it pretty when I get back home in my own shop. Which has more room to.