Brice Burrell said:
If I understand Neill's post I agree with him, this forum isn't his own personal marketing platform for his products. The members invention section was at one point completely filled with his threads for his products and feedback. At a certain point this kind on vigorously marketing becomes inappropriate for this forum. At minimum these threads should be in the sales section.
Yes, I completely agree with you and Neill about this. Now that the initial novelty fuzz about this amazing 'invention' (I'd rather say 'adaption') is over (which I might say I was never that amazed over, as I expressed earlier) I do think it should be moved to where it belongs. Now that all the enthousiasm of a new jig made by no less than one of FOG's own is over, we should treat it as any other commercial endeavour and place it in the dealers area. Mind you, I was a bit surprised when Matthew suddenly introduced the all new 'Amazing Members Inventions' area in this forum. I thought it was a bit over the top.
Brice Burrell said:
I don't believe the intention of the members inventions section was to be a marketing platform. It has evolved it that and I'm not completely comfortable with the idea.
I also agree with you on that, Brice. It's not the original section where members could show off their custom jigs that's a problem, but it's this all new 'Amazing Members Inventions' section that sort of turned into Steve's own personal marketing platform. I do hold the opinion that this specific section is not completely in agreement with what I came to think of this forum.
Brice Burrell said:
Then was have the added complexity of Festool now owning the forum and with the CMS coming to N. America (at least it looks like the router option) Steve's router lift kits are a competing product. It's certainly not appropriate for a competitor to have free reign on a tool's manufacturers forum.
Well, there you bring another important point on the table: Festool now completely owns this forum. As to that I can only say: bolloxxx. No disrespect to Festool, but as I came to understand in the 'FoG under new stewardship' thread, the new steward committed himself to obtaining the impartial role the former steward (Matthew) himself played on this forum. Therefor, anybody should have the liberty to say what they want on this forum and not feel the threat of Festool breathing in their neck for censorship. Not even for competing products. If Festool is as good as they claim to be, they should not worry about competitors having their say, but simply blow them away with the superior excellence of their service, pricing, and products.
This is how the free market works, this is how free speech works. If you're the best (or one of), you don't have to worry about inferior products and competitors. If you're not the best, people's reactions to your ideas and products will show it to you, and you better draw your conclusions accordingly and step up your game. Of which you, if you take the people's objections at heart, will have a FAIR chance. But, on the OTHER HAND, if you're trying to push yourself by means of less open, fair, and democratic ways, people will draw their OWN conclusions and CERTAINLY punish you for that. One way or the other. And I myself, I definitely LOVE to be one of the first to express my opinion about such complicated, yet opinionated or say, judgmental events and circumstances. With which I mean to say that If I like you, I will you praise you into heaven, but If I don't like you, I will make you feel like hell has opened its gates.
All in all I'm just saying, let's get the competitors in by truck loads, Makita, Metabo, DeWalt, Fein, Ridgid, PC and yes, also Steve. All it can result to is open competition and the more of that there is, the better it is to all of society. Even to Festool. They might occasionally miss out on a sale today, but if they're smart, they win two tomorrow. And knowing the German mindset, as their closest neighbour, as a person who speaks the language fluently and is well traveled in the country, I have no doubt they will understand, adapt and prevail accordingly. NEVER underestimate a German.
Brice Burrell said:
With all the above said I'm glad this kinds of things can happen, a guy comes up with a good idea and the demand turns it into a business and people get a good tool. I guess I'm saying the idea is great but maybe it needs some restructuring to better fit the forum.
Boy oh boy, I have to agree with you again. It's almost getting boring, but it's becoming more and more difficult for me to hide the fact that I like you as a person, your ideas, and the way you stand in life. They say that 'opposites attract', but I'm more one of those people who think that 'great minds think alike'. Restructuring? Sure. I think the whole 'Amazing members inventions' area was a bit over the top in the first place.
Now I know there's a lot of cultural differences between Europa and America (in some ways definitely: unfortunately), so, after some research and Googling around the net, I came to understand that 'under the table mounted circular saw solutions' are quite the oddity in The States. But here in Europe, they are as normal as sliced bread with peanut butter. So initially, please forgive me, but I was a bit surprised about the fuzz some people made about this contraption. But now that this occurrence made me a wiser man, I think I understand. You see, here in Holland, I can look at, and play with Festool's CMS system in the store (not that I can afford it
), made out of sturdy aluminium by highly educated engineers, for a smaller price than Steve's jig, but I now understand this is totally not available in the USA.
(Boy, do I love to go to the shop and play with the CMS. I do it all the time, and the Dutch dealers here just love to let me, even if they saw me 5 times already and only saw me leave the shop with just a 10 pack of 150mm sanding paper.)
I am glad you guys can very soon enjoy the CMS router insert, and I sincerely hope UL will also soon let you guys reap the benefits of the TS55 and TS75 inserts. And the rest (jigsaw, drum sander, whatever).
Dang, after reading all this back, I feel very sad that even Europe and America have so much differences. There are 6 continents on our amazingly beautiful planet, and there are not two so much alike as America and Europe, but yet we still differ so much .......
Alex.
. The luster faded (for me at least) when Steve started posting the accessories in the section No one doubts that the original idea was---SWEET. A router plate getting its own "amazing" thread-----LAME. The gentleman posting about the drill chuck---POETIC.
