SYSTAINER³ available from September

[mac sparrow]

What I'd really like to know is what other manufacturers who use the systainer system will do.  Mafell and Fein for example use the T-Loc and Mafell has even adopted the Sys-Combi in one example I've seen.  Will these manufacturers convert to the new system?  Why did Metabo give up on the T-loc system, perhaps things were discussed behind closed doors relating to the new systainer3 that Metabo didn't like so they moved on?

I'm also interested to know what will happen with the obscure items that use the systainer profile such as the CT Sys or SYS PH.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Cheese, you’re probably right it’s a market opportunity. I didn’t know that Bott did so many conversions. And those buy in bulk, meaning for Tanos/Festool that they are most likely expanding. An added benefit is that a non Festool/Tanos user becomes aware of who equips their tools with Bott compatibility boxes - it’s a win-win. Not so much for existing Festool users.

Mackenzie, in my opinion there’s most likely new SYS PH and CT SYS in the works.
There will most likely also be new drawer slides compatible with SYS3/Bott. If cheaper and easier to mount, that could be a good thing. I don’t think all will change, as in IE the MW 1000. I think the “old” drawers will be available along with maybe new drawer slides and maybe frames with drawer slides for SYS3.

Imagine a compact small SYS port-alike with lighter system from Bott, where you can place it on top of a CT dust collector where you can pull systainers out simultaneously on both sides and have easy access to to maybe 3-4 systainers without stacking back and forth. Me want! ..SYS Ports are way too expensive, and too heavy. Plastic fantastic is fantastic! When weight is an important factor.

I have a “cart” from Keter all with drawers, it is all plastic, but it is good plastic - even the slides for the drawers, but I works remarkably well, even when I have more heavy stuff like fasteners and alike in it. And it is on wheels, so I shift it around as I please. I can split it in three parts, each with 3 drawers, put all or one in my car, it won’t scratch anything, and the drawers are lockable via central locking system so it lock all three drawers at once - just as a automotive tool cart in steel.

 

[Gregor]

Mackenzie, in my opinion there’s most likely new SYS PH and CT SYS in the works.

Given the format the VAC-SYS still sells here in Europe (classic systainer)... I do not share your enthusiasm.

Imagine a compact small SYS port-alike with lighter system from Bott, where you can place it on top of a CT dust collector where you can pull systainers out simultaneously on both sides and have easy access to to maybe 3-4 systainers without stacking back and forth.

It looks to me that Bott system does not support opening systainers without removing them fully from the stacking frame.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Mackenzie, in my opinion there’s most likely new SYS PH and CT SYS in the works.

Given the format the VAC-SYS still sells here in Europe (classic systainer)... I do not share your enthusiasm.

Imagine a compact small SYS port-alike with lighter system from Bott, where you can place it on top of a CT dust collector where you can pull systainers out simultaneously on both sides and have easy access to to maybe 3-4 systainers without stacking back and forth.

It looks to me that Bott system does not support opening systainers without removing them fully from the stacking frame.

Oh well, that’s not enthusiasm - more a probable reality to what to come. Sure if systainers are now made to fit BOTT drawers, why should they exclude VAC SYS and SYS PH?

- Too bad if the systainers cannot open in-shelf.

 

[mac sparrow]

Phoned Bott today to ask for an ETA for the Bott branded Systainer3's and Vario3 racking and they said the release has been postponed until Q1 2021 due to Corona.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The Bott/Systainer3 system does not have drawer slides. It’s just a grid of pigeon holes for stuffing the boxes into for storage and transport.

If you want to open a Systainer on a pull-out shelf the drawer slide has to allow the back or the box to project at least 30mm beyond the front of the cabinet. With this system the back of the box will still be about 80mm short of the front of the cabinet when it starts to fall out.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Ah, so at a non moving shop like home shop or shop-shop, “ordinary” shelves are quite better..
Stupid of me thinking that there were to be made slides compatible with the new slots on SYS3.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ah, so at a non moving shop like home shop or shop-shop, “ordinary” shelves are quite better..
Stupid of me thinking that there were to be made slides compatible with the new slots on SYS3.

The Bott cabinet has fixed rails that fit the slots molded into the sides of the Sys3. The benefit of the Bott cabinet compared to an ordinary shop cabinet is that there are no shelves. The Sys doesn’t sit on anything.

 

[Cheese]

So the bottom line is this Bott thing works great in a van but not so much in a shop.  [mad]

 

[semenza]

Ah, so at a non moving shop like home shop or shop-shop, “ordinary” shelves are quite better..
Stupid of me thinking that there were to be made slides compatible with the new slots on SYS3.

The Bott cabinet has fixed rails that fit the slots molded into the sides of the Sys3. The benefit of the Bott cabinet compared to an ordinary shop cabinet is that there are no shelves. The Sys doesn’t sit on anything.

Saves a little vertical space with no shelves. And a little more vertical or horizontal space due to the front handle. Since no space is needed to be able to get your hands on the Sys to pull it out.

I can see it saving about 6" vertical on a 48" tall Sys cabinet compared to having shelves and hand room.

Seth

 

[mino]

So the bottom line is this Bott thing works great in a van but not so much in a shop.  [mad]

This.
The SYS3 really needs to be looked at as a compatible-complement-but-not-a-replacement for classic/T-Loc "LEGO" lines.

We just need to make sure (hope ?) Festool realizes this.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ah, so at a non moving shop like home shop or shop-shop, “ordinary” shelves are quite better..
Stupid of me thinking that there were to be made slides compatible with the new slots on SYS3.

The Bott cabinet has fixed rails that fit the slots molded into the sides of the Sys3. The benefit of the Bott cabinet compared to an ordinary shop cabinet is that there are no shelves. The Sys doesn’t sit on anything.

Saves a little vertical space with no shelves. And a little more vertical or horizontal space due to the front handle. Since no space is needed to be able to get your hands on the Sys to pull it out.

I can see it saving about 6" vertical on a 48" tall Sys cabinet compared to having shelves and hand room.

Seth

Even more vertical space saving in a taller cabinet which is more viable with the front handles. Add a pullout shelf in the middle for a Sys3 to sit on when you pull it out and it’s almost as convenient as a costly full extension drawer.

 

[Spandex]

So the bottom line is this Bott thing works great in a van but not so much in a shop.  [mad]

The Bott racking was never meant for workshops. The integrated slider is an additional feature specifically for when the systainer is in a van rack, where opening the systainer in situ isn’t desirable - it doesn’t stop you using a sys-az at home or in the workshop, it just adds more flexibility for people who also rack their tools in a van.

It’s funny, because I remember threads on here where people complained that the sys-az wasn’t suitable for installation in a van, and now Tanos add a van-specific slider on the systainer and people are complaining that it isn’t suitable for workshop use.

 

[FestitaMakool]

So the bottom line is this Bott thing works great in a van but not so much in a shop.  [mad]

It’s funny, because I remember threads on here where people complained that the sys-az wasn’t suitable for installation in a van, and now Tanos add a van-specific slider on the systainer and people are complaining that it isn’t suitable for workshop use.

Haha [big grin] - We’ll never be happy [wink]
We’re only happy till the next thing we’re eyeballing..
That said, as you folks knowing more about Bott’s system, it could be a workshop solution. That is when you would want to avoid T-Lock fiddling, stacking and unstacking.
You could possibly have easy reach and easier access to a systainer in a middle of a rack. Thus saving space in height, that is if these rails/sliders will be available to mount in a cabinet. You would have to decide the SYS height for each “shelf” though - ahh, maybe not very convenient - easier to mount ala LR 32 shelves or similar flexibility, as dado’ing cabinet sides for slide in shelves. I’ll speak for myself, but I hate fixed shelves, I always do them with adjustability. There’s always something you would like to put in a shelf, that of course would not fit if I had fixed shelves  [crying]

 

[mattbar1]

Are these available in the USA yet? And if so where?

 

[yetihunter]

Are these available in the USA yet? And if so where?

Only with some tools as stock gets replenished.  Most of the sanders now and then drills in July.

Americans interested in the Metabo “Metaloc” boxes will be pleased to know that they finally started showing up from Metabo’s US operations about a month or two ago.  No more need to import via Amazon.  The integrated side handle is nice (nicer than the new tanos/festool side handles) and you can lock and unlock the metal clasp in the middle of a stack. 

For those new to Festool and reading this; when the t-loc was introduced, there was a bible sized thread either here or the now defunct other festool messageboard with people screaming bloody murder about how Festool replacing the original four latch systainer was the worst thing to ever happen to humanity or whatever. 

Either Thursday or Friday, I passed mixed stacks of the old and new t-locs at the store and didn’t even notice the new ones were there until someone mentioned it.  Everyone’s concerned about the height, but most of that stuff is based on a Sys1 and they kept that the same size.

About the different parts bins, I can’t help you there.  After the dozens of different cobbled together clunky ways Festool/Tanos have offered customers to store screws and bolts, they finally smartened up and are delivering what every other modular plastic parts bin company has offered since the dawn of mankind (exaggerating somewhat).  I would believe it if you told me Bott motivated this.

 

[rst]

I have two of the Metabo “Metaloc” boxes, my surface grinder and saw came in them and them work well with Festool and Tanos systainers.

 

[mino]

Everyone’s concerned about the height, but most of that stuff is based on a Sys1 and they kept that the same size.

Everyone is concerned about the height because the SystainerTM height system is one of the defining/killer features of the product.

With the new heights, you can NO LONGER (for all practical purposes, I know no one who is a SYS-1 only shop)
A) use a general stack of systainers as a mobile work surface
=> this makes the new line near useless for a lot of people
B) use *standard and universal* shelfs for efficient Systainer storage in the shop /lot of people use a SYS-5 or "SYS-6" or similar exact heights in shelfs/
=> this makes the any investment in them as a "superior" solution for shop-use /i.e. it gets a LOT harder to justify the expense/

For green field shop use B) is a nuisance, and can be compensated by wide-availability of the Bott rails (guess these can be cheaply 3D-printed)
For mobile use A) is a show (value) stopper which turns a $50 Systainer into a $10 Chinese tool case.

Combined, the value of the whole "one universal system" is lost.
The SYS3 is no longer a "system" in the same way the "Lego" ones are. It is half-broken in an intrinsic way.

The winners here are the Bott system users and a few who will appreciate the integrated sliders /a wash with point B) possibly/.
Everyone else loses. Including Festool in the long run.

For me, personally it is easy.
Having free shipping from the excellent folks at sys-classic.de for Tanos kit, I will just sell or give out any SYS3 that comes my way /except the XXL which is a beast/.

So, am I impacted - not really. Festool systainers have a "steal me" mark over here so I already use anthracite TANOS ones for tools and keep the Festool ones for home storage only.
Am I peeved - no.

But as a fan of what Festool, and TTS overall, does - I am disappointed as this will become a bad move for the company in case "Lego" line is not kept under the Festool brand moving forward or new "Lego" heights are not added to give the buyers a choice within the SYS3 ecosystem.

And if Festool is not successful, we will not have them do as much R&D on new tools so all are impacted.

Add:

Why did Metabo give up on the T-loc system, perhaps things were discussed behind closed doors relating to the new systainer3 that Metabo didn't like so they moved on?

I would not look for Metaloc further than the new management at Metabo which probably saw a cost-saving/profit opportunity once the original sys(tem con)tainer patents expired and they had a mostly free hand.

 

[yetihunter]

What I'd really like to know is what other manufacturers who use the systainer system will do.  Mafell and Fein for example use the T-Loc and Mafell has even adopted the Sys-Combi in one example I've seen.  Will these manufacturers convert to the new system?  Why did Metabo give up on the T-loc system, perhaps things were discussed behind closed doors relating to the new systainer3 that Metabo didn't like so they moved on?

I'm also interested to know what will happen with the obscure items that use the systainer profile such as the CT Sys or SYS PH.

Metabo did not give up on the t-loc system.  They simply followed Makita and Hitachi’s lead and made their own personal and 100% compatible variant.  They’ve been on the market for 4 or 5 years now, I doubt that there was any sort of connection.

As far as what other companies will do, I guess the same as they did 9 years ago: slowly rollover to the new boxes when they get around to it.  Mafell took half a decade before switching over to t-locs from the classic systainer. 

 

[Sourwould]

Does anyone know if these cubed systainers are priced the same as the t-locs? I bought a sander and it came with one, but I'm going to sell it.