The Complete "Jointmaker Pro" Review..... A Paradigm Shift in Woodworking

[JJEconomaki]

Matthew/Roger/visitors and FOG members;

My first comment regarding Roger's review of our Jointmaker Pro is personal: You sir have completely eliminated any thoughts I may have had of running for public office. Yikes--you are thorough!

Matthew, thank you for inviting me to your forum. This is a lot of work and I would like to remind the readers of this board how lucky you are that Matthew volunteers his time to make this community possible.

I am ecstatic that there is at least one woodworking forum (maybe the only one) that has managed to attract open minded woodworkers--you are in a minority.

This process was stressful for us because so much is at stake (we are a small company). Roger's review is honest, obviously thorough and answers many questions a potential owner might have asked. I know if I was entertaining making a purchase of this stature this review would be very helpful.

Thanks to all for allowing this discussion to take place and if you have any further questions, I am sure Roger is capable of getting you an answer. If not, my email address is below.

Lastly, I will be demonstrating the Jointmaker Pro in Atlanta in August at the IWF exhibition in the booth of the manufacturer (8874).  Michael and I will be demonstrating the Jointmaker Pro in November at the Woodworking in America conference in Berea, KY. If you visit, please stop by and introduce yourself, we would thoroughly enjoy meeting you.

Quality is Contagious,

John Economaki
john@bridgecitytools.com

 

[monte]

Bridge City Tools new decorative cuts video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVKQgOqZSo&fmt=18

by the way,
the moldings you see in the video were also done silently,  with a selection of BCT's planes.

 

[b_m_hart]

The cuts that allowed the piece of wood to bend in that video were pretty amazing - there's a LOT of potential for interesting uses for such stuff.

 

[Steven in Iowa]

Is this ever going to get finished?

Over two weeks since the last post by anyone, let alone the reviewer.

I think, by now, you see exactly what I meant earlier by my comments about lost momentum.

Take your comments elsewhere, we don't need the negativity about another's creativity.

 

[douglas2cats]

I got the email yesterday from BCTW that the offishul pre-ordering period has begun. Price goes up after Aug 28.

 

[nickao]

I have not looked at this from just before summer until the last hour or so.

What an awesome review. It was worth the wait and to the people complaining about the wait I will only say you were way off base. I am glad I did not go or do the review because there is absolutely no way I would or could devote the time required to do a review of this caliber.

I would much rather have this tool than a kapex any day of the week. Even if the kapex worked flawlessly it is only a miter box after all, but this is one unique tool that nothing else can compare to when cutting smaller pieces.

Great job and I can not wait to receive mine!

Nickao

 

[Tinker]

Nick
The Jointmaker Pro looks like the perfect fit for your work.
I hope you can give us a good rundown after you have offishuly put it thru its paces.

I thoroughly enjoyed Roger's excellent report.  his work, I think, were under controlled conditions with some onsite input from the designer.
I appreciate all of his effort and time spent. He went to a lot of work and expertise. My comment in no way is meant to diminnish that fact

I am assuming your first use to be on your own. No onsite input from designer.  Projects of your own (and unusual) designs Things will have to fit first time. No room for error. Less controlled situation.  etc/etc/etc

keep us posted, pleez
Tinker

 

[nickao]

Yes, I will be working alone, I always do and I do not think my little garage shop and small business warrants any visitors or input by the tools designer.

I want to use it mainly to cut smaller pieces that tend to be unsafe or impossible using a miter or table saw.

Nick

 

[Tinker]

I have not looked at this from just before summer until the last hour or so.

What an awesome review. It was worth the wait and to the people complaining about the wait I will only say you were way off base. I am glad I did not go or do the review because there is absolutely no way I would or could devote the time required to do a review of this caliber.

I would much rather have this tool than a kapex any day of the week. Even if the kapex worked flawlessly it is only a miter box after all, but this is one unique tool that nothing else can compare to when cutting smaller pieces.

Great job and I can not wait to receive mine!

Nickao

Nickao, Have you received your JMP yet?
I am (as others the same, I am sure) anxiously awaiting your report.
This is a tool i am certain will work in my very limited space/small projects shop.

I think it might not work too well for larger projects where rails and styles (example) might well be 5 or 6 feet long.
Of course, if i make large projects with both bulk and weight, they need to be made in knockdown sections so i can get them out of my basement shop.  For the size projects I am gravitating to, i think this toy would be purrrfect.

Tinker

 

[nclemmons]

I talked to Bridge City in August, and they're taking orders now, but are not shipping till likely November. 

neil

 

[nickao]

No they are taking pre-orders only. I am hoping to have it by Thanksgiving for 950.00.

 

[monte]

Hello again Nick,

Nice to see you around again, regarding the JMP.......Hmm, Just a thought, I'm not quite sure that you should count on cutting Wooden Turkey centerpieces for your Thanksgiving day table setting with your Jointmaker Pro. Wooden Ornaments for the big tree in December might be a more realistic goal.

Also, my understanding  is that the pre-order price is $995 plus shipping ($59.,I believe, ...and that's unassembled) (The $995. is with the BCTW Founders Circle membership) and that is until September 15th 2008. See.....http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/What's+New/Jointmaker+Pro

all the best,
Roger

 

[nickao]

Oops yes 995.00, I am in the Founders club and I am in no rush, Christmas is fine for me.

 

[monte]

Squiggle Wood >>>>

Inspiring.......Out of the box thinking,

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/

 

[nickao]

That just gave me a bunch of ideas!

 

[enderw88]

I am very interested in this tool, and the price seems reasonable given the obvious quality of the materials and the likelihood that BCT will only sell a few hundred of them over the next several years which leads me to my one big reservation about this tool: The custom saw blades.  If for any reason BCT ceases production of this tool how will replacement blades be found?  A quick perusal of the BCT website shows they seem to be good at providing consumables for tools that are out of production, but these are pretty special items and much more difficult to produce than plane irons.

 

[JJEconomaki]

Craig:

I am writing to alleviate your concerns regarding replacement blades for the Jointmaker Pro.

As you know, these blades are specially designed for this tool. We have invested in the dies to have them produced in Japan and our Japanese supplier is one of, if not the oldest production hand saw company in Japan--they are also the best. The investment in dies means that the production quantities are manageable. If for whatever reason something happens to us (we are 25 years young) another firm or individual will pick up the replacement blade opportunity.

It is our intent to have supplies in Europe (Michael leaves this week to visit our European distributor), Japan and hopefully Australia.  Of course we will have inventory in Portland.

I am more worried at the moment about the value of the dollar than I am about blade availability.

That said, we still don't know how long a blade actually lasts, but I will share our/my experiences with blade longevity.

First, it is highly recommended to have spare blades if you are going to use the tool. We have yet to wear a blade out, and we really tried making Squiggle wood.  We do however manage to trash blades through accidents.  For example;

I was doing a demo recently in Tokyo and forgot to retract the blade. I started a new cut and crashed the wood into the front of the blade--good bye blade. Of course I did this with a crowd watching (isn't that always the case?). Unfortunately my choice of words needed no translation...

If the blade is tilted and your stock is not firmly clamped in the sliding table, the negative feed can force the stock upward against a tilted blade and that is not good for blade longevity.

I have, through carelessness, set wood across the rails and bent teeth--good-bye blade.

And while I am on the subject of blades, here is our experience with the three blades we are producing for the Jointmaker Pro;

The 32TPI .3mm crosscut blade is incredible for small cross-section stock (.5" x .5") however it does not track well in deep cheek cuts. But the cuts it makes are just awesome.

The 28 TPI .4mm crosscut blade is by far the most versatile and we rarely take it off our saws. It works for just about everything we have tried.  This is the blade that creates endgrain cuts smoother than any other saw.

We use the rip blade for larger tenons and lots of dovetails. However these are square cut teeth and they clog easily so we only use this blade when there is volume.

Lastly, we hope to find a company with deeper pockets who can produce this saw for a broader market and part of any deal will be a continuation of the original blade profile.

Lastly, I haven't built anything in 25 years because I am hyper-allergic to wood dust. But I am going to start when the production model is released--I have too many ideas for this tool to let the opportunities rot in my head. So I too need blades--and you can bet that Squiggle wood is on my mind....

I hope this helps.

John Economaki
President
Bridge City Tool Works

PS: It is not going to take us several years to sell "a couple of hundred" Jointmaker Pros. 

 

[Eli]

Thanks John for that. Do you think the involvement of a 'company with deeper pockets' would ultimately be a move that would see a more widely produced model, ie, one with fewer features or material substitution that would allow a JMP model to be more economical? Or would scaling production up naturally reduce price through volume?

 

[JJEconomaki]

I suggest there are many parts that can be produced from composites or plastic. Production molds would run well into the hundreds of thousands dollars--money we simply don't have.

Regarding features, I don't think anything should be left out. We have made some improvements after Roger's visit to Portland that I am excited about; the table tops now feature a threaded hole array for user jigs and the front and rear plates feature a hole array for a user-built dead-man for longer stock or for a user built tool caddy.

The current manifestation could benefit a little by economies of scale (mainly the CNC set-up expenses amortized over a larger run) but the price of metal and anodizing per unit would likely not be impacted significantly--these two expenses alone are well over $200 and unfortunately, getting higher EVERY DAY. Anybody who is making products from metal knows that this is the craziest time anybody has seen--and we've been doing this for 25 years.

We are chasing a bigger picture with this tool and the timing certainly could be better. In our opinion, and most of those who have seen and actually used the tool, there is a value proposition. Accuracy without noise is a message that really resonates with some woodworkers. That said, it is not for everybody and we know that.

I really don't find much value in price comparisons because there are too many variables involved. However they can be thought provoking...

Automobiles are a great deal when you consider for $15-30K you are the beneficiary of billions of dollars of R & D and  mass-production efficiencies. On the other hand, I saw an infomercial the other night for the Kreg pocket hole jig @$100. I thought to myself, geez 10 Kreg jigs equals a JMP-and 30 JMP's equals a new Acura TSX.  None of this makes sense to me.

The real question is which of these examples is likely to still be around in 100 years? Certainly not the TSX...

John Economaki
Bridge City Tool Works

 

[enderw88]

PS: It is not going to take us several years to sell "a couple of hundred" Jointmaker Pros.   

I sincerely hope you sell a million!  Thank you for the reassurance on consumable availability.  I am budgeting one in for mid next year!