smorgasbord
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- Joined
- Jan 7, 2022
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- 1,330
Long story long here.
Last week I set about installing MuscleChucks on my routers. This is actually a process you need to undertake to have reduced run-out.
In that video, the inventor claims that with two solid cones mating, you need to find the right positioning such that they're mating properly. A normal collet is flexible, so it almost always mates easily. The MuscleChuck itself is a hard cone, so you've got cone within cone.
I dug out my dial indicator (not an expensive one that he has, but mine has 0.01mm gradations (0.0004" , aka 4 ten-thousandths) and did as he did, measuring against the inside cone of the router spindles while rotating them by hand. Good news was that the Makita trim router in my CNC was good to within +/-0.005mm (dial went from 0 to 0.01mm), and the venerable Porter Cable 7518 in my router table was almost as good (about +/-0.0075mm).
I then did the install the chuck, install a straight bit, and put the dial indicator on the shank near the collet and rotate by hand. Now the bit sticking out will magnify any run-out, but after a few tries I got that minimized to about +/- 0.025mm on each.
I then went to my hand-held router, which is a decades old Bosch 1613EVS. I bought it because I liked the micro-adjust mechanism, which is operated with the plunge locked, and graduated in 0.1mm (1/256"). After a few years of use, I dropped it onto a concrete floor. It landed on the attached edge guide, which snapped a piece of the base that held the nut that secured one guide rod, and also bent the base a tad. I was young and stupid, and didn't think then to just order a new base from Bosch, so I bought another 1613EVS and put the old one on a shelf, thinking I'd jig it up for some dedicated use later (never did, unsurprisingly).
Well, I was never totally happy with the quality of cuts I got with my newer 1613EVS. Doing the run-out check exposed the problem: the shaft had radial play, about 0.08mm worth near the chuck. That may not look like a lot on paper, but it's enough to feel if you push on the side of a router bit in the chuck, particularly a couple of inches below the chuck. So, this morning I set about seeing if I could put the newer base on the older router since the older router didn't have that run-out/play.
Anyway, after taking them apart, I first thought it was the big bearing on the spindle near the chuck, but upon close examination, it turned out that the bearing had some play inside the router housing. The bottom housing was cast with 8 small protrusions in the hole, which were then milled down to accommodate the bearing. That milling process must have been sloppy in the newer router. I was going to just put the older housing on the newer router, but Bosch changed the depth stop and markings between my two versions and I liked the newer version better. I ended up sticking a piece of thin feeler gauge between the milled protrusions and against the bearing's outer wall to remove the play.
As I expected, getting the router back together was a bit of struggle. Besides compressing springs, I had to remove the brushes to get the spindle back into the top housing, and had to press the plunge lever (duh!) to push the halves together. But, now the router doesn't have play in the spindle and I've got the chuck run-out down to acceptable levels. I even got the other one back together, and it still runs, too. I'll hide it on a back shelf in case I need other parts to cannibalize from it later.
Looking at how the Bosch is constructed, I guess I feel better about radial run-out, but wonder just how vertical the vertical plunge mechanism is, or perhaps I should say how perpendicular to the base the plunge action/axis is. I could probably rig up the dial indicator to measure, but having spent hours doing nothing but futz with my routers, I want to get back to actually cutting wood.
Notes on the MuscleChuck:
• Very convenient way to change out bits, just a 4mm hex wrench (3mm on the Makita trim) and maybe just one full turn. No spindle lock needed.
• On the CNC, it's a godsend because you're not fighting collet nut torque and have a spare hand to catch the bit.
• Actually, often don't need to catch the bit because the shank's fit in the MuscleChuck is almost air tight and so vacuum holds it in place.
• On the router table, I no longer need two wrenches, one of which was offset.
• I had originally bought the extended chuck for the router table, but that wasn't needed and only reduced my effective travel. I'll put it up for sale (Type 1E).
• On the bad side, even the regular Muscle Chuck extends further than the standard collet, so you do lose some effective travel. On the CNC, that's not a problem since I can just mount the router a tad higher, and the router table we'll see if that becomes an issue, and hand-held it'll allow me to make a thicker sub-base since the chuck can be lower than the standard sub-base now.
• I should have, but didn't take measurements on the bit shanks with the standard collets, so I can't compare run-out specs. I feel the standard collets might be better, but we're talking one or two ten-thousandths of an inch here (hundreths of a millimeter).
• The MuscleChuck is a ½" chuck (¼" on the Makita trim). To use bits with other shank diameters, you need an adapter sleeve. MuscleChuck sells some high quality sleeves, so I got a set (⅛", ¼", ⅜", 8mm). This is good in that you don't need to buy additional chucks, but does slightly complicate bit mounting.
As for routing, I'll have to see how satisfied I remain with the 1613EVS. I should probably eventually get an OF2200. And then either an OF1400 or the DeWalt 620B battery router for the mid tasks if the 1613EVS disappoints.
Last week I set about installing MuscleChucks on my routers. This is actually a process you need to undertake to have reduced run-out.
In that video, the inventor claims that with two solid cones mating, you need to find the right positioning such that they're mating properly. A normal collet is flexible, so it almost always mates easily. The MuscleChuck itself is a hard cone, so you've got cone within cone.
I dug out my dial indicator (not an expensive one that he has, but mine has 0.01mm gradations (0.0004" , aka 4 ten-thousandths) and did as he did, measuring against the inside cone of the router spindles while rotating them by hand. Good news was that the Makita trim router in my CNC was good to within +/-0.005mm (dial went from 0 to 0.01mm), and the venerable Porter Cable 7518 in my router table was almost as good (about +/-0.0075mm).
I then did the install the chuck, install a straight bit, and put the dial indicator on the shank near the collet and rotate by hand. Now the bit sticking out will magnify any run-out, but after a few tries I got that minimized to about +/- 0.025mm on each.
I then went to my hand-held router, which is a decades old Bosch 1613EVS. I bought it because I liked the micro-adjust mechanism, which is operated with the plunge locked, and graduated in 0.1mm (1/256"). After a few years of use, I dropped it onto a concrete floor. It landed on the attached edge guide, which snapped a piece of the base that held the nut that secured one guide rod, and also bent the base a tad. I was young and stupid, and didn't think then to just order a new base from Bosch, so I bought another 1613EVS and put the old one on a shelf, thinking I'd jig it up for some dedicated use later (never did, unsurprisingly).
Well, I was never totally happy with the quality of cuts I got with my newer 1613EVS. Doing the run-out check exposed the problem: the shaft had radial play, about 0.08mm worth near the chuck. That may not look like a lot on paper, but it's enough to feel if you push on the side of a router bit in the chuck, particularly a couple of inches below the chuck. So, this morning I set about seeing if I could put the newer base on the older router since the older router didn't have that run-out/play.
Anyway, after taking them apart, I first thought it was the big bearing on the spindle near the chuck, but upon close examination, it turned out that the bearing had some play inside the router housing. The bottom housing was cast with 8 small protrusions in the hole, which were then milled down to accommodate the bearing. That milling process must have been sloppy in the newer router. I was going to just put the older housing on the newer router, but Bosch changed the depth stop and markings between my two versions and I liked the newer version better. I ended up sticking a piece of thin feeler gauge between the milled protrusions and against the bearing's outer wall to remove the play.
As I expected, getting the router back together was a bit of struggle. Besides compressing springs, I had to remove the brushes to get the spindle back into the top housing, and had to press the plunge lever (duh!) to push the halves together. But, now the router doesn't have play in the spindle and I've got the chuck run-out down to acceptable levels. I even got the other one back together, and it still runs, too. I'll hide it on a back shelf in case I need other parts to cannibalize from it later.
Looking at how the Bosch is constructed, I guess I feel better about radial run-out, but wonder just how vertical the vertical plunge mechanism is, or perhaps I should say how perpendicular to the base the plunge action/axis is. I could probably rig up the dial indicator to measure, but having spent hours doing nothing but futz with my routers, I want to get back to actually cutting wood.
Notes on the MuscleChuck:
• Very convenient way to change out bits, just a 4mm hex wrench (3mm on the Makita trim) and maybe just one full turn. No spindle lock needed.
• On the CNC, it's a godsend because you're not fighting collet nut torque and have a spare hand to catch the bit.
• Actually, often don't need to catch the bit because the shank's fit in the MuscleChuck is almost air tight and so vacuum holds it in place.
• On the router table, I no longer need two wrenches, one of which was offset.
• I had originally bought the extended chuck for the router table, but that wasn't needed and only reduced my effective travel. I'll put it up for sale (Type 1E).
• On the bad side, even the regular Muscle Chuck extends further than the standard collet, so you do lose some effective travel. On the CNC, that's not a problem since I can just mount the router a tad higher, and the router table we'll see if that becomes an issue, and hand-held it'll allow me to make a thicker sub-base since the chuck can be lower than the standard sub-base now.
• I should have, but didn't take measurements on the bit shanks with the standard collets, so I can't compare run-out specs. I feel the standard collets might be better, but we're talking one or two ten-thousandths of an inch here (hundreths of a millimeter).
• The MuscleChuck is a ½" chuck (¼" on the Makita trim). To use bits with other shank diameters, you need an adapter sleeve. MuscleChuck sells some high quality sleeves, so I got a set (⅛", ¼", ⅜", 8mm). This is good in that you don't need to buy additional chucks, but does slightly complicate bit mounting.
As for routing, I'll have to see how satisfied I remain with the 1613EVS. I should probably eventually get an OF2200. And then either an OF1400 or the DeWalt 620B battery router for the mid tasks if the 1613EVS disappoints.
