Time for a Domino?

[WarnerConstCo.]

I got the go ahead for a bunch of mill work and trim work.

One of the parts being these railing inserts.

I really don't see any other quick/easy way of doing all the joinery on these inserts but, I just bought an Oliver jointer and a planer so I am out some cash for those.

I guess I could dowel them all but, how long will that take?

Is it easy to cut a mortise in the end of  a 1"x1 1/4" piece of oak, or will I struggle with position and alignment issues?

I really can't afford too much waste due to the fact that the wood for these will be coming from some 130 year old Barn timbers.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I got the go ahead for a bunch of mill work and trim work.

One of the parts being these railing inserts.

I really don't see any other quick/easy way of doing all the joinery on these inserts.

I guess I could dowel them all but, how long will that take?

Is it easy to cut a mortise in the end of  a 1"x1 1/4" piece of oak, or will I struggle with position and alignment issues?

I really can't afford too much waste due to the fact that the wood for these will be coming from some 130 year old Barn timbers.

Darcy, get the trim stop attachment and you'll be golden.

 

[Julian Tracy]

Once you set it up, you could do them all quicker than any other method.

Seeing as how you have a lot of small ones to do as well, you might consider making a bit of registering jig that would hold the wood and position the domino.

That job begs for a Domino to do it with.

JT

 

[tiralie]

That job begs for a Domino to do it with.

+1.
I hope you have a good metal detector/wand to find any nails hidden in that barn board.
Tim

 

[USPcompact]

I'd do half-laps for everything except tying it into the hand/bottom rails.  The fastest and most accurate way to do that would be on a tablesaw with the BCT Kerfmaker:  Clicky.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I disagree with the above comment about a domino being the quickest method.  Sure it will work, but you will likely have some registration problems with the small horizontal pieces.  It would be much quicker to gang cut half laps on a table saw or router.  Assembly will be quicker as well as you can face clamp at the joints or pin in place.  The half lap will be much stronger as well as you have a face to face glue joint.

I would rip a groove in the rails for the balusters to sit in then fill between the balusters with small blocks.  While not as strong as a true M&T joint it will be much stronger than a domino and take a fraction of the time

I just recently completed a hand rail salvaged from old growth cedar boards and use the domino to mortice all of the balusters.  It was on my own house thank god as I would have lost my butt bidding it out.  You have to glue up each rail section separately(ideally with a clamp per baluster) which is a challenge in itself.   You need 3 balusters per foot for code so a 6 foot rail section has 18 balusters or 36 dominos to align.  In your case you would have to complete sub assemblies of your chinese balustrade design then try to keep them from racking as they set so they would all line up with you did the full glue up.  I can promise you it will be a nightmare glue up, and if you decide to go that way have at least a couple helpers on hand.  

Good luck with the project, would love to see the results.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

That job begs for a Domino to do it with.

+1.
I hope you have a good metal detector/wand to find any nails hidden in that barn board.
Tim

I just have TSA come over and check them out. [big grin]

It will be checked by me and the mill as well before they resaw it for me.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I'd do half-laps for everything except tying it into the hand/bottom rails.  The fastest and most accurate way to do that would be on a tablesaw with the BCT Kerfmaker:  Clicky.

That thing is great.

Fast and simple.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I disagree with the above comment about a domino being the quickest method.  Sure it will work, but you will likely have some registration problems with the small horizontal pieces.  It would be much quicker to gang cut half laps on a table saw or router.  Assembly will be quicker as well as you can face clamp at the joints or pin in place.  The half lap will be much stronger as well as you have a face to face glue joint.

I would rip a groove in the rails for the balusters to sit in then fill between the balusters with small blocks.  While not as strong as a true M&T joint it will be much stronger than a domino and take a fraction of the time

I just recently completed a hand rail salvaged from old growth cedar boards and use the domino to mortice all of the balusters.  It was on my own house thank god as I would have lost my butt bidding it out.  You have to glue up each rail section separately(ideally with a clamp per baluster) which is a challenge in itself.   You need 3 balusters per foot for code so a 6 foot rail section has 18 balusters or 36 dominos to align.  In your case you would have to complete sub assemblies of your chinese balustrade design then try to keep them from racking as they set so they would all line up with you did the full glue up.  I can promise you it will be a nightmare glue up, and if you decide to go that way have at least a couple helpers on hand.  

Good luck with the project, would love to see the results.

I thought it might be an assembly nightmare.

Half laps would be the strongest.  I could throw in a square peg detail where they all over lap as well.

I am slightly confused about the groove for the balusters to sit in.  The frame for each section is 1"x1", as the metal tubing across the bottom is that size.

They were to be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" wide.  Although not really ideal, it is the hand I am dealt.  I could rip a groove in the top and bottom rail and put a small tongue on the balusters then fill with blocks.  I have the option of doing several things as you will not see the top or bottom of the sections.  Screws and glue come to mind.

thanks

 

[Tezzer]

I disagree with those who disagree the Domino would be the quickest way.  Using both the Trim and Cross Stop you will have the job completed in no time flat, and very accurate.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'd do half-laps for everything except tying it into the hand/bottom rails.  The fastest and most accurate way to do that would be on a tablesaw with the BCT Kerfmaker:  Clicky.

Sweet!!! 

[smile]

 

[tiralie]

I thought it might be an assembly nightmare.

Well I wouldn't call it a nightmare, but it will be challenging not only to fabricate and assemble it efficiently but to fit all those balusters between the steel so they look evenly spaced.

I guess this is a "careful what you wish for scenario" [eek]?
Good luck.
Tim

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I thought it might be an assembly nightmare.

Half laps would be the strongest.  I could throw in a square peg detail where they all over lap as well.

I am slightly confused about the groove for the balusters to sit in.  The frame for each section is 1"x1", as the metal tubing across the bottom is that size.

They were to be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" wide.  Although not really ideal, it is the hand I am dealt.  I could rip a groove in the top and bottom rail and put a small tongue on the balusters then fill with blocks.  I have the option of doing several things as you will not see the top or bottom of the sections.  Screws and glue come to mind.

thanks

With 1" stock the tongue would be necessary.  I had assumed that the rails were wider than the balusters.  The nice thing about the groove is that you then use your blocks as your reference spacers to keep your balusters plumb.  If it is an interior application then glued and screwed but joints would probably be fine, but considering the fact that you would have to predrill and clamp each one the tongues might make assembly easier.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I disagree with those who disagree the Domino would be the quickest way.  Using both the Trim and Cross Stop you will have the job completed in no time flat, and very accurate.

Based on the sketchup model you are talking about 110 domino's per rail section, or 220 glued joints. With the half laps you could line up all the pieces on a reference surface and gang cut them with a router on a rail or a table saw.  Not only would this take 1/2 the time, but the joints would be self aligning and assure a square assembly if cut correctly.

I love the domino, but it is not always the best tool for the job.  In my experience any glue ups with more than about 20 domino's is pretty tricky.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I disagree with those who disagree the Domino would be the quickest way.  Using both the Trim and Cross Stop you will have the job completed in no time flat, and very accurate.

Based on the sketchup model you are talking about 110 domino's per rail section, or 220 glued joints. With the half laps you could line up all the pieces on a reference surface and gang cut them with a router on a rail or a table saw.  Not only would this take 1/2 the time, but the joints would be self aligning and assure a square assembly if cut correctly.

I love the domino, but it is not always the best tool for the job.  In my experience any glue ups with more than about 20 domino's is pretty tricky.

that is what I counted.  that is 220 mortise cuts and a small fortune in domino's as well.

Yes, it is an interior application for a railing that goes around a sunken living room.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I thought it might be an assembly nightmare.

Half laps would be the strongest.  I could throw in a square peg detail where they all over lap as well.

I am slightly confused about the groove for the balusters to sit in.  The frame for each section is 1"x1", as the metal tubing across the bottom is that size.

They were to be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" wide.  Although not really ideal, it is the hand I am dealt.  I could rip a groove in the top and bottom rail and put a small tongue on the balusters then fill with blocks.  I have the option of doing several things as you will not see the top or bottom of the sections.  Screws and glue come to mind.

thanks

With 1" stock the tongue would be necessary.  I had assumed that the rails were wider than the balusters.  The nice thing about the groove is that you then use your blocks as your reference spacers to keep your balusters plumb.  If it is an interior application then glued and screwed but joints would probably be fine, but considering the fact that you would have to predrill and clamp each one the tongues might make assembly easier.

I wish I could make the bottom tubing bigger but, I really don't feel like welding in some one's living room.

I will mention that the height of these inserts is only about 30", so with 1"x1 1/4" balusters, which will be old growth timber, should be plenty strong.

 

[Alan m]

i could see a jig being used to register the domino jointer to allow all the diferent parts to be cut with only one set upfor each  component. it looks like there is only a few different components in this , only a lot of them. this jig would speed up the job be removing the layout for each piece.
i think the domino would be way faster to cut the joint than half lap joints.

the saved time could be put towards the doninoes.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

i could see a jig being used to register the domino jointer to allow all the diferent parts to be cut with only one set upfor each  component. it looks like there is only a few different components in this , only a lot of them. this jig would speed up the job be removing the layout for each piece.
i think the domino would be way faster to cut the joint than half lap joints.

the saved time could be put towards the doninoes.

I can't really see it being faster, especially if I gang cut all my half laps.

For each piece you join you cut two slots, seems like a lot of shuffling parts and a lot of time involved.

 

[tiralie]

...but the joints would be self aligning and assure a square assembly if cut correctly.

IMHO, I would say if this were being painted I would agree.
There is some margin for error in the lapping method but if this railing is going to be "stain" grade then those laps need to be right on. Yes you can gang them up but the issue is the consistency of the stock, since you are milling the stock, and I am assuming that this is fairly stable stock (not a lot of shrinkage from milling to final assembly) you can control it but it is amazing how even a 32nd difference can create offsets (not flush, or too much or not enough overlap) that will add time to assembly.

The Domino gives you some room for error, but the trade off is handling time for cuts and cost for materials.

Tim

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

...but the joints would be self aligning and assure a square assembly if cut correctly.

IMHO, I would say if this were being painted I would agree.
There is some margin for error in the lapping method but if this railing is going to be "stain" grade then those laps need to be right on. Yes you can gang them up but the issue is the consistency of the stock, since you are milling the stock, and I am assuming that this is fairly stable stock (not a lot of shrinkage from milling to final assembly) you can control it but it is amazing how even a 32nd difference can create offsets (not flush, or too much or not enough overlap) that will add time to assembly.

The Domino gives you some room for error, but the trade off is handling time for cuts and cost for materials.

Tim

There is always that damn human error.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Domino would work great but, in reality I would like to win the horse race.  After all, it comes down to making money and that is what I am trying to figure out.