To CMS or not to CMS

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Woodsgood

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Dec 1, 2011
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My 1400 is my go to router. I need a table. The router in the table needs to be able to spin some steel. It will be used for raising panels on a regular basis. What I really need is a portable shaper. I don't think the 1400 is up for the task.

If the CMS housed the 2200 (here in the US) it would be a no brainer. I don't want to hump a full size table with a big PC to jobs.

Any ideas?
 
It is not a sure thing that Festool USA, UL and CSA will ever resolve their differences to allow the OF2200 module to be sold in the USA and Canada.

There are many ways to raise door panels. The method advocated in Festool USA End User classes since the CMS was released here is the vertical raising bit. The OF1400 is more than powerful enough. Many vertical raising bits fit in the OF1400.

For people who need to bring a router table to job sites that is a useful method.
 
I use horizontal panel-raising bits in my 1400 and CMS frequently. I have not found the OF1400 to be wanting in this regard.

Maybe the OP could clarify why he thinks the OF1400 is unsuitable for the task- is it power, convenience, base aperture size etc?
 
I've never done any panel raising other than on a full-size shaper, so have zero experience of using router tables for the task. Therefore, I have a question:

What difference does it make (in terms of the router used) whether the bit is horizontal or vertical? Both responses imply that you need a higher power router to use horizontal bits; why? Surely, you're removing exactly the same amount of material irrespective of the orientation? Assuming you use a slower speed for the larger diameter horizontal bit, the speed of the cutter through the material will also be roughly the same. With a larger diameter bit, you need more power to start up the bit due to the increased mass, but surely that's negligible when not under load?

I'm genuinely curious about this!

Jonathan
 
jonny round boy said:
I've never done any panel raising other than on a full-size shaper, so have zero experience of using router tables for the task. Therefore, I have a question:

What difference does it make (in terms of the router used) whether the bit is horizontal or vertical? Both responses imply that you need a higher power router to use horizontal bits; why? Surely, you're removing exactly the same amount of material irrespective of the orientation? Assuming you use a slower speed for the larger diameter horizontal bit, the speed of the cutter through the material will also be roughly the same. With a larger diameter bit, you need more power to start up the bit due to the increased mass, but surely that's negligible when not under load?
Click to expand...

I image the issue here is torque, electric motors tend to be pretty linear, but with a horizontal bit, there is a bigger level if you will (so longer distance between center of rotation and cutting edge) than with a vertical bit, so you need more torque.

RE same material removal rate, well a router running at a higher speed is using more power, so for a like for like, if your router had a gearbox, so the router ran at a consistent speed and a gearbox ratioed down the speed of the bigger horizontal bit, I suspect they would perform the same, as you would get more torque
 
The finish of a vertical panel raising bit may not be quite as good as that using a horizontal cutter as it is more likely to show the variation in feed (inclination, rate) more than the other.

I have done loads of (horizontal) panel raising with some quite ordinary routers with no problem whatsoever and I would not hesitate to use my OF1400 (if I had a CMS-OF) for the task.

I agree, that given a choice, the OF2200 would be better but without that option use the 1400.

Peter
 
Thanks for the responses.

To clarify, I know about vertical bits, I prefer to work horizontally, in addition I do occasional arched top panels.

The bits I'd like to use are the 6000 series with a back cutter from Whiteside.

Unfortunately, because I love the way Festool systems work together, I will probably end up with a Woodpecker or Kreg set up and deal with the portability/compatibility/dust collection issues.
 
Woodsgood said:
I just ordered a CMS.
Click to expand...

Lol I just read your previous post from the other day and now you've ordered the CMS!  Good for you...you will certainly enjoy it!
 
Just got to this thread. Hey Bob. Good Wood, I haven't routed raised panels on my CMS, but there is a video on Youtube of a Festool dude doing this quite successfully. Can you construct the panels at your home shop and bring them to the site? Congrats on the new table...I am quite happy with the CMS along with the 1400...just not impressed with the out-feed table set-up.  Festool could have done better. Let us know what you think.
 
NYC Tiny Shop said:
Just got to this thread. Hey Bob. Good Wood, I haven't routed raised panels on my CMS, but there is a video on Youtube of a Festool dude doing this quite successfully. Can you construct the panels at your home shop and bring them to the site? Congrats on the new table...I am quite happy with the CMS along with the 1400...just not impressed with the out-feed table set-up.  Festool could have done better. Let us know what you think.
Click to expand...

Hey Jim!  Great to see you!  What don't you like about the CMS outfeed table?
 
Bob, I find it difficult to assemble and get set to the correct height. There's so many parts to putting it together. I'm always fumbling and dropping parts. I wish that it was just a snap-on-and-go system.  Any suggestions, tips, or advice are always welcome.
 
NYC Tiny Shop said:
Bob, I find it difficult to assemble and get set to the correct height. There's so many parts to putting it together. I'm always fumbling and dropping parts. I wish that it was just a snap-on-and-go system.  Any suggestions, tips, or advice are always welcome.
Click to expand...

Gotcha...I don't disassemble mine too often but I get what you're saying.  I don't really have much regarding tips for speed. How about just using the MFT/3 as an outfeed?  Isn't that what you have?
 
NYC Tiny Shop said:
Bob, I find it difficult to assemble and get set to the correct height. There's so many parts to putting it together. I'm always fumbling and dropping parts. I wish that it was just a snap-on-and-go system.  Any suggestions, tips, or advice are always welcome.
Click to expand...

At the risk of insulting you - which is not my intent at all - I swear.  Remember my post that you liked about the MFT/3 and the extension table that could be used as a story board for parts that you liked?  If you build that simple thing it it will also match up to the CMS.  You can also use that concept to build something to the rear of the table to install an Incra fence ofr anything else.

I am not knocking the extension table, mine is in my office and not on the table.  There is a ton of flexibility in the Festool system.

Peter
 
Yes, you are right...and, that is my conclusion, too.  I've only used my new CMS GE table three times.  I wanted to use what I paid for.
Because of my tight space and the CMS GE out-feed table set-up being such an inefficient waste of my time...it only makes sense for me to use the the MFT as an out-feed table.  The MFT is the first thing that I set up each day, so it is there already.  If I would have realized that the CMS out-feed is what it is, I would have just bought the basic table. ( Yes, Peter, fortunately, Festool coordinates the table heights.)
  While I'm at it...the miter fence sure is a weak and flimsy apparatus, too...always going out of adjustment with the slightest amount of counter force.  If I knew what I know now, I would have just bought the basic table and the Woodpecker coping sled, instead.  Like I said previously, I think that Festool could and should improve on the design of the CMS GE set.
  On second thought, knowing what I know now, I would have built my own caster-wheeled table...buy the insert plate and mounting mechanism from ekat, the dust hose from Toolnut, the Incra fence, push stick, push pad, and featherboard from bench dog. Done, for half the price, with a better fence and sled.
 
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