TSO GRS-16PE + MFT

[Jmacpherson]

John, - you're welcome!  Glad that you are now able to purchase TSO Products from local dealers in South Africa.
Hans

Me too Hans, although not sure my wallet or wife will be as glad as we are

 

[Gregor]

Option Nr. 2: TSO offers a precision machined drill jig for sale which can be clamped to an existing GRS-16 PE for drilling accurately placed holes with a Tap Drill followed by tapping with an M6 Tap.

We look forward to feedback, as always.

As these jigs would be single-use, throwaway after... what about:

1) make one jig and send to $user that is in need of them for shipping costs (and a reservation on their CC, to make sure it dosn't get 'lost')
2) when $user has used it to upgrade his tool he'll log on to your site to download a shipping label to send it back, after package has been received the reservation on the CC is canceled
3) the label from 2 could (instead of returning it to you) well be addressed to $user2 that also is in need of the jig

Sure, you coudn't make that much money from this (compared to selling everyone an own jig to be used once and then discarded) but it would be service and save resources (as less need to be created). Surely it would take each user a bit longer on average to get one (which could be mitigated by having more than one circulating, depending on the amount of users who want to use one), but when done right it should be a cost effective (and green) solution.

 

[clark_fork]

Could we have some more photos of this in action and perhaps the process of installing it. I am not sure I grasp the process but the prospect of a permanent square up of the MFT fence is very appealing.

Secondly, does this square-up solution suggest permanently installing the TSO GRS-16PE on the MFT bracket and purchasing a second one specifically for this use? I spend a lot of time checking the fence to make sure it is square. On the MFT, I have modified the old saying...to "Square twice, cut once" I might be inclined to dedicate a second GRS-16PE to get more reliability and I am using my GRS-16PE frequently for sheet goods and such. I am concerned about the longevity of the screw hole threads in the installing and de-installing process.

Lastly on the option of locating and drilling holes on the older model discussed above, why not just design a new GRS specifically for the MFT? Streamline the design to reduce costs, supply the screws and an instruction flyer. My guess is that other tool making companies are reading this thread with great interest. This would be a defensive strategy.

 

[Jmacpherson]

Could we have some more photos of this in action and perhaps the process of installing it. I am not sure I grasp the process but the prospect of a permanent square up of the MFT fence is very appealing.

Secondly, does this square-up solution suggest permanently installing the TSO GRS-16PE on the MFT bracket and purchasing a second one specifically for this use? I spend a lot of time checking the fence to make sure it is square. On the MFT, I have modified the old saying...to "Square twice, cut once" I might be inclined to dedicate a second GRS-16PE to get more reliability and I am using my GRS-16PE frequently for sheet goods and such. I am concerned about the longevity of the screw hole threads in the installing and de-installing process.

I took some photos post my install, I used the 2x screws provided from Festool to install the TSO square onto the rear bracket.
I installed from the bottom but based on the holes and clearance inside the rail maybe you can install from the top down?

If you wiggle the rail and/or bracket post install there is a little bit of movement/play but that is down to Festool not TSO.
It is the same play that has always been there and probably one of the main causes of the accuracy issues on the MFT?

As [member=66875]simonh[/member] originally pointed out because the TSO square clamps to the rail, you are guaranteed to be square so long as your work piece is flush to the TSO square.
I took a small Woodpeckers square just show everyone and it is 100% square.
The small piece of wood I have under it is square to begin with but I slid it past the rail and measured top, middle and bottom and I was @8mm at all locations so I'm good to go.

 

[TSO_Products]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions including pictures [member=61559]Jmacpherson[/member].  I was unable to get pictures uploaded yesterday – I’ll try again later today.
The TSO Insider will have more details and pictures by next weekend for all to see.

For now, we plan to try the simplest method first: create a 1:1 full scale template for transferring the exact placement of the two M6 holes along with instructions. We’ll put that up for free download on our website “Plans and Drawings” section by August 1st.
The screws which come  with the MFT/3 function to hold the GRS-16 PE just the same way. The attachment method can stand installation and removal many times without affecting accuracy – because accuracy is determined solely by the connection of the clamped GRS-16 PE to the left edge of the guide rail.

[member=49013]clark_fork[/member] – once users find that this MFT/3 functionality of the GRS-16 PE really works for them, I would not be surprised that quite a few users choose to dedicate a GRS-16 PE to their MFT/3 workstation.
As far as “streamlining the design to reduce cost” – we are always open to suggestions. We have actually absorbed a substantial portion of a cost increase last year when we increased the material thickness by 20% to provide maximum support for the guide rail t-slot edge – and then machined almost all of that additional material off again and to reduce total weight – actually reduced the net weight of the new GRS-16 PE by 51 grams over the preceding version. We decided early on that we will build the BEST tool we know how to design and produce – no compromise.
Other tool companies may read this with interest, you’re right. Meanwhile we received a Patent Office notice of allowance and our patent attorney said to expect the patent to issue this fall.
The crux of this MFT/3 connection is not that it connects to the MFT but rather that it equips the hinged guide rail with it’s own GRS-16 PE square reference edge for the workpiece. And we do not rely on the play in the lower t-slot for squaring the rail to the workpiece – big difference!

If the full scale template does not do it, we’ll listen to feed back about a drilling fixture. Mind you all: we are looking at making this as affordable for existing customers as we can.

Let's see if I can pictures uploaded shortly.

Hans

 

[rst]

I've been repairing automatic door systems for 38 years.  Often I would need to repair one of the various manufacturers system that required a dedicated programmer.  I dealt with a supplier that has the specific programmers and tools to  repair any system.  I would call them, tell them what I needed, they would ship the unit, bill me and then credit me for the programmer when I returned the unit.  All I would end up paying was a rental charge.  It does require an organized system, but makes it possible for any repair necessary.

 

[Jmacpherson]

I bought the GRS-16 first and has revolutionized the way I use my tracksaw+rail+mft.
I was never happy with the mft fence or using dogs it just never felt right for me personally.

So I found the original posters idea great and when local dealers started stocking TSO products it felt like a wise move to buy the PE version too and permanently connect the rail to the mft. The dedicated holes on mine are a bonus.

In my opinion I think it is a worthwhile edition to your MFT.

 

[ChuckM]

I don't own this tool or an MFT. As a suggestion, since this is pretty much a one-time use for a one-time fix thing, can the jig be made of dirt cheap material (hard plastic?) to reduce the cost?

 

[Svar]

I don't own this tool or an MFT. As a suggestion, since this is pretty much a one-time use for a one-time fix thing, can the jig be made of dirt cheap material (hard plastic?) to reduce the cost?

Or cast from aluminum with only two contact edges milled. Perhaps volumes can not justify casting?

 

[TSO_Products]

GRS-16 PE Template for adding MFT/3 hinge plate mounting holes

As promised, we have created a full-scale template and instructions for retro-fitting  MFT/3 hinge plate mounting holes to GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Square already in use by our customers:
Here is a link for the free download:https://tsoproducts.com/plans-drawings/grs-16-pe-template-for-adding-tapped-m6-holes/

and here is a link describing this latest June 2018 Upgrade to our production GRS-16 PEhttps://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/grs-16-pe-parallel-edge-guide-rail-square/

We hope you find this Upgrade helpful. It is in dealer inventories now.
Hans and Eric

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I don't own an MFT (yet) and have a few questions:

1) Are users of this GRS/MFT still loving it?

2) Does it take much time to remove the GRS from the MFT to use stand alone?

3) I'm sure many have seen the new TPG offering from TSO. Do you think this would be another added benefit for accuracy and efficiency?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Klemm]

I don't own this tool or an MFT. As a suggestion, since this is pretty much a one-time use for a one-time fix thing, can the jig be made of dirt cheap material (hard plastic?) to reduce the cost?

Or cast from aluminum with only two contact edges milled. Perhaps volumes can not justify casting?

TSO won't surprise anyone on the FOG by revealing that we have completed a very detailed engineering feasibility and manufacturing cost analysis of such a concept last year - including a look at ways to increase market penetration to achieve some economies of scale.

But it would surprise more than a few when they saw what resource commitment this would actually take in a market segment that is as small as Track Saws - a segment so small  even the Yellow Brand track saw it is not stocked at Big Box stores -  which is where the unit volume exists  to justify massive tooling investments and mass promotional exposure.

But keep the ideas coming and let us take a closer look at them. At least that gives ideas another chance to find a home in FOG niche market.

Hans

 

[simonh]

I don't own an MFT (yet) and have a few questions:

1) Are users of this GRS/MFT still loving it?

2) Does it take much time to remove the GRS from the MFT to use stand alone?

3) I'm sure many have seen the new TPG offering from TSO. Do you think this would be another added benefit for accuracy and efficiency?

Thanks,

Mike

I'm still using mine on the MFT and loving it.

It's very quick to detach the rail when not in use.  To remove the GRS from the MFT there's a couple of bolts that need undoing so a minute or so (I'm sure these stock Festool bolts could be replaced with some quick release with a little ingenuity but I've not spent the time as I don't remove it too often) . I think combined with the new TPG it would make a good guide stop for repeatability but I haven't got my hands on one yet!

 

[tomp]

I don't own an MFT (yet) and have a few questions:

1) Are users of this GRS/MFT still loving it?

2) Does it take much time to remove the GRS from the MFT to use stand alone?

3) I'm sure many have seen the new TPG offering from TSO. Do you think this would be another added benefit for accuracy and efficiency?

Thanks,

Mike

I'm still using mine on the MFT and loving it.

It's very quick to detach the rail when not in use.  To remove the GRS from the MFT there's a couple of bolts that need undoing so a minute or so (I'm sure these stock Festool bolts could be replaced with some quick release with a little ingenuity but I've not spent the time as I don't remove it too often) . I think combined with the new TPG it would make a good guide stop for repeatability but I haven't got my hands on one yet!

There's a use for the TPG-48.

 

[DynaGlide]

I think combined with the new TPG it would make a good guide stop for repeatability but I haven't got my hands on one yet!

[member=59331]TSO Products[/member] I commented in the TPG thread but didn't get a response. Will the new parallel guides work with the GRS-16 PE mounted to the MFT hinge to act as a fence with stops for repeat cross cuts? A one stop solution to have perfectly square repeatable cross cuts that can be lifted up and out of the way or removed and put back on without ever questioning if the cuts will come out square. No more fiddling with the MFT fence or wondering if it is square or not but without giving up the repeat ability of using stops.

 

[Klemm]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] –  Months ago we used a prototype (anodized blue) TPG-30 and attached it to a GRS-16 PE which was already connected to the MFT/3 Hinge Plate and had the 1080 Guide Rail locked onto it.
A real simple way for repeated crosscuts on the MFT/3 and no longer worrying about keeping anything squared up.
        simple, quick and repeatably accurate: TSO

Thanks for raising the question.
Hans
PS: unable to attach the picture after three tries

 

[lerabotperche]

I wonder if one of the GRS-16 could be use someday as a stabilizer for the 55 saw when cutting  47° angle ?

 

[tomp]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] –  Months ago we used a prototype (anodized blue) TPG-30 and attached it to a GRS-16 PE which was already connected to the MFT/3 Hinge Plate and had the 1080 Guide Rail locked onto it.
A real simple way for repeated crosscuts on the MFT/3 and no longer worrying about keeping anything squared up.
        simple, quick and repeatably accurate: TSO

Thanks for raising the question.
Hans
PS: unable to attach the picture after three tries

And, if I'm understanding this correctly, you would need the LH TPG-30/48?

 

[Klemm]

[member=65072]tomp[/member] - YES, you are correct, The setup responding to @DynaGlide question would require a FlipStop LEFT Hand and the LEFT Hand T-track in whatever length is desired.

At the moment we plan to offer the shorter 20 inch and 30 inch cut length T-tracks as LEFT Hand or RIGHT Hand Sets, each with the corresponding FlipStop. For many customer one or the other will meet their immediate needs.

Others will find ways to deploy elements of the TPG System in different combinations. We do not see demand for the 50 inch Cut length common enough to make it part of every kit. The TPG-50 will be offered as just a pair of T-Tracks.

TPG FlipStops, LEFT- or RIGHT Hand will also be available for individual purchase.
We will adjust the product mix based on customers order pattern.

Hans

 

[Klemm]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - one more try to upload the picture in a reduced file size showing the TPG-30 LEFT Hand mounted to a GRS-16 PE which is attached to the MFT/3 Hinge Bracket.
Hans