TSO parallel guide system inaccurate metric scale?

[MikeGE]

[scared]

Blunder x 2!

Sadly, yes.  If I had brought my tape measure with me the first time, it would have been Blunder x 1.  [mad]

 

[rst]

Whenever I buy a new tape,.I check it against a 3m Wiha folder than lives in my carpenter pants side pocket along with my marking tools

 

[ChuckM]

Every station in my shop has a tape. Whichever tape I pick up first is the same tape that will be used for the duration of the shop day. Tapes have never given me a problem; my misreading of measurements has.

 

[Mini Me]

I only use Hultafor or BMI tapes in the workshop but if possible a story stick which is way more reliable than any measuring system when building furniture projects. If not using a story stick it is steel rules, verniers, dividers etc anything but a tape if possible. I have some  8 metre construction tapes and that is what they get used for. The BMI Quicky does live in my pocket and it is spot on accurate with all the Hultafor tapes I have as they all have to match a standard unlike the generic construction tapes.

 

[thudchkr]

[member=8008]tjskinny[/member] and [member=2575]thudchkr[/member] - thank you! Such an eye opener. I was sure the Fastcap tape was pretty accurate, looks like that may not be the case.
I will check it against a good American made steel rule and report back.

I did another check yesterday by making a mark at precisely 500 mm with the Fastcap tape. It was about 0.7 mm out on the TSO guide scale, not as bad as 1 mm, but still frustrating.

I made a test cut at the 10" mark with TSO guide and it was dead on, exactly 10" according to my Woodpeckers stainless steel square.

[member=2575]thudchkr[/member], you had an interesting observation regarding the temperature change. How big was the temp swing?

IIRC temp in the shop was around 53 degrees F. I’ve meant to check it again at a higher temp but have yet to do so. If I need a precise measurement, I rely on one of the steel rules.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a metric tape that is more accurate than Fastcap's True 32?

As far as metric tapes I use a couple Stanley Fat Max’s, (a 5M and an 8M), and several Tajima’s. All of those have been verified against my steel rules.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Take note of the chart to the right of the pic of the tape measure on the display carton.

 

[Packard]

What I am unsure of is if Serge, the original poster, was interested in retracting tape measures or in adhesive-backed tape scales. 

None of the adhesive-backed scales that I've seen rate their products as Class 1 or Class 2.

 

[thudchkr]

Take note of the chart to the right of the pic of the tape measure on the display carton.

Lol. I went onto Amazon after posting my last message to order the class 1 tape indicated on one of the previous posts. Did a search there for Class 1 tape measures and found the $40+ Indicated. However, also found a Tajima Class 1 for a little under $28, so ordered two. Shows up as free international delivery and currently show a delivery date of 19 Jul. Shipping details show it coming from Australia. Be interesting to see how accurate that shipping estimate comes out

I’m looking forward to comparing them to the Tajima’s I currently own to see how well they match.

I plan on posting the results here when I come up with some details.

 

[Packard]

Tajima used to be made in Japan.  If they moved the manufacturing equipment along with the work to China, the transition should be seamless.

I would be interested in what your findings are.

 

[serge0n]

[member=74278]Packard[/member] I'm interested in retracting tape measures, not the ones with adhesive tape on the back.

[member=2575]thudchkr[/member] I also ordered a couple of Class 1 Tajima's from Amazon yesterday for ~$20 each. One was international delivery, one was not.

Here is one of them -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003B43RNY

Good find on the accuracy explanation between class 1 and 2 tapes!

 

[serge0n]

The Hultafors Talmeter has arrived. And I'm not impressed at all.
It's a class 2 tape, so the scale is not printed with injket, but transferred with a special wheel. It looks really crappy.

Here is the Talmeter tpae as compared to the Festool tape:
View attachment 1

Talmeter is approximately 0.2 mm off, PEC steel rule is used for reference. Focus on number 6 here, other numbers are off due to parallax. Because the lines on the scale are so fuzzy the potential of measurement error increases.
View attachment 2

Festool is spot on. Focus on number 22.
View attachment 3

PEC 4R machinist steel rule was used for reference.

 

[ChuckM]

The Hultafors Talmeter has arrived. And I'm not impressed at all.
It's a class 2 tape, so the scale is not printed with injket, but transferred with a special wheel. It looks really crappy.

Here is the Talmeter tpae as compared to the Festool tape:
View attachment 1

Snip.

Was it due to some manufacturing malfunction? My dollar store kind of tape measure (class 3?) has even better printing.

 

[serge0n]

Was it due to some manufacturing malfunction? My dollar store kind of tape measure (class 3?) has even better printing.

I don't think so, but I hope someone who owns this tape can post a close up picture of the blade.

Hultafors doesn't even classify the Talmeter as a tape measure on their website, it's in a class of it's own called 'Talmeter'. That way they can state in marketing materials that all of their steel tapes are class 1.

Talmeter is most likely going back to Amazon.

One Tajima tape is arriving later today and another one on Tuesday. I have high hopes for these two.

 

[Mini Me]

I have one 3 metre and one 6 metre Hultafors Talmeter and two BMI Quicky tapes. The markings on all of them are very crisp and they all line up at 1800mm exactly by eye. For giggles I checked a Stanley and it varies along its length by as much as a mm and a Lufkin is out around 2.5mm at 1800mm but I don't care about those two when I am landscaping or rough checking lengths of timber. There are a lot of knock offs in this world and maybe you got one? just a random thought. Companies like Mitutoyo struggle with the knock off problem all the time.

 

[CeeJay]

Here’s my Hultafors Talmeter.

I think you got a dud.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jeffinsgf]

I checked my Talmeter yesterday after seeing this thread. Rabone-Chesterman, Bridge City Toolworks, Woodpeckers and the Talmeter all aligned perfectly with each other. Guess I got lucky.

 

[Mini Me]

I checked my Talmeter yesterday after seeing this thread. Rabone-Chesterman, Bridge City Toolworks, Woodpeckers and the Talmeter all aligned perfectly with each other. Guess I got lucky.

I think what you have is normal and not lucky at all. 

 

[ChuckM]

I checked my Talmeter yesterday after seeing this thread. Rabone-Chesterman, Bridge City Toolworks, Woodpeckers and the Talmeter all aligned perfectly with each other. Guess I got lucky.

I wish I had your kind of luck with my tapes.

Some tapes checked:

2 right-handers (same brand) - no match
2 left-handers (same brand) - yes match
Fastcap and Stanley - yes match
Center tape - no match with any of the above

By and large, tape measures in my shop don't align with each other except as noted above.

I'll stick to my trusted tapes...that's using the same one tape throughout. But I've known that all these years.

 

[thudchkr]

I’m looking forward to comparing them to the Tajima’s I currently own to see how well they match.

I plan on posting the results here when I come up with some details.

My new tapes arrived yesterday.
View attachment 1
So I opened one up and started comparing.  I decided to use the 3 meter mark for my comparisons and laid the tapes out side by side on my Festool 3000 track. I hooked both tapes on the end of the track and then recorded how the tapes compared to each other.

My favorites are currently my Tajima tapes so I started there.
View attachment 2
View attachment 3
View attachment 4
View attachment 5
View attachment 6
View attachment 7

They all matched the Class 1 nicely

 

[thudchkr]

Seeing as how the Tajima's checked out nicely I moved on to my FastCap tapes.  Again, I used the 3m mark for my comparisons.

View attachment 1
View attachment 2
View attachment 3
View attachment 4
View attachment 5
View attachment 6

They all came out better than I expected.  All errors were less than a millimeter when compared at the 3m mark.  I seem to remember greater variances when I checked them previously against my fixed rules, so will do some additional comparisons at other positions on the tape and report back with any significant discrepancies.

I also wanted to make sure the two Class 1 tapes I received matched each other.

View attachment 7
View attachment 8