Turbine HVLP "Highest quality gun with the best finish"

[vteknical]

Looking to see what people are shooting with out there and if they are happy with their purchase decisions. 
I write this just after heavily using my Fuji Q4 for about a month shooting cabinets and panels with ML Campbell's Polystar.

I was using the 1.4mm #4 nozzle setup and was borderline satisfied.  I really wished I had the 1.0mm nozzles as I felt the 1.4 was causing too much micro peel.  Just couldn't get the atomization fine enough to lay down like glass.  I increase the airflow and reduced the paint output but felt it was almost dry before it hit the surface.  Yes I know there is balancing act on airflow/needle settings.

So my dilemma is this: I just bought the #3 nozzle setup in hopes of better atomization "am I just polishing a turd doing this?" I mean this gun is not cheap at 249.00 bucks by any means and the sad part is I've bought guns from Harbor Freight for 25.00 that blow this one away in fit and finish.  Another thing that kind of suprise me was the cheap Orbit garden hose ball valve/high tech air regulator.  I bought the #3m pps setup for this as well and really like the ease of use, cleanup and concept.  However I found since the airsupply to pressurize the bag is installed after the air regulator you are also decreasing the pressure needed to compress the bag to push the paint up into the gun.    Coming up with a modification for this shortly.

So if one were to buy the Sata of Turbine HVLP's which one would rank high in quality and performance.

Thanks
Victor

 

[Eli]

Don't look at me, I had to google Sata!  :-[

 

[woodshopdemos]

Looking to see what people are shooting with out there and if they are happy with their purchase decisions. 
I write this just after heavily using my Fuji Q4 for about a month shooting cabinets and panels with ML Campbell's Polystar.

I was using the 1.4mm #4 nozzle setup and was borderline satisfied.  I really wished I had the 1.0mm nozzles as I felt the 1.4 was causing too much micro peel.  Just couldn't get the atomization fine enough to lay down like glass.  I increase the airflow and reduced the paint output but felt it was almost dry before it hit the surface.  Yes I know there is balancing act on airflow/needle settings.

So my dilemma is this: I just bought the #3 nozzle setup in hopes of better atomization "am I just polishing a turd doing this?" I mean this gun is not cheap at 249.00 bucks by any means and the sad part is I've bought guns from Harbor Freight for 25.00 that blow this one away in fit and finish.  Another thing that kind of suprise me was the cheap Orbit garden hose ball valve/high tech air regulator.   I bought the #3m pps setup for this as well and really like the ease of use, cleanup and concept.  However I found since the airsupply to pressurize the bag is installed after the air regulator you are also decreasing the pressure needed to compress the bag to push the paint up into the gun.    Coming up with a modification for this shortly.

So if one were to buy the Sata of Turbine HVLP's which one would rank high in quality and performance.

Thanks
Victor

Victor,
  I have no experience with your setup other than to know the Fuji 4 stage should be plenty. Sata is top notch but I think you should be able to get outstanding results from your setup. There is a hotline for both Fuji and Campbells and I would try those first. Let us know what happens.

 

[mastercabman]

Looking to see what people are shooting with out there and if they are happy with their purchase decisions. 
I write this just after heavily using my Fuji Q4 for about a month shooting cabinets and panels with ML Campbell's Polystar.

I was using the 1.4mm #4 nozzle setup and was borderline satisfied.  I really wished I had the 1.0mm nozzles as I felt the 1.4 was causing too much micro peel.  Just couldn't get the atomization fine enough to lay down like glass.  I increase the airflow and reduced the paint output but felt it was almost dry before it hit the surface.  Yes I know there is balancing act on airflow/needle settings.

So my dilemma is this: I just bought the #3 nozzle setup in hopes of better atomization "am I just polishing a turd doing this?" I mean this gun is not cheap at 249.00 bucks by any means and the sad part is I've bought guns from Harbor Freight for 25.00 that blow this one away in fit and finish.  Another thing that kind of suprise me was the cheap Orbit garden hose ball valve/high tech air regulator.   I bought the #3m pps setup for this as well and really like the ease of use, cleanup and concept.  However I found since the airsupply to pressurize the bag is installed after the air regulator you are also decreasing the pressure needed to compress the bag to push the paint up into the gun.    Coming up with a modification for this shortly.

So if one were to buy the Sata of Turbine HVLP's which one would rank high in quality and performance.

Thanks
Victor

I have used the fuji set up with good results.(campbell finishes)
Just curious,are you thinning the paint/finish ? A lots of paint product needs to be thin out or you are not going to get a good finish.

 

[nickao]

I had a Fuji 4 stage and loved it, just awesome. With the different tips( I had all of them) you can shoot thick latex paint or the thinnest of finishes, conversion varnish anything. Still, HVLP does not mean no over spray, just less. I just did not have space for a separate spray room, which to me was imperative as I do not have time to clean and cover everything in the shop at finishing time.

When I purchase again it will be a Fuji 4 stage.

I found you HAVE to thin appropriately and never had an issue with the Fuji. A Q4 retains it value like a Festool so you could always resell and get another. There are quite a few that are supposedly superior to the Festool, but I have never worked with them.

"Yes I know there is balancing act on airflow/needle settings"  this statement is key, it took me awhile and I mean a week or two to get the feel for it to work to my satisfaction.  I purchased mine a couple years ago they may have changed the guns because I had no problem with the fit or finish on mine.

The bottom line is experience. My friend came over and used my gun perfectly. He left I still could not duplicate his results. He probably could do better than me using a 10.00 gun, than I could using the best.

I will call him and see which gun he feels is the best on the market.

Nickao

 

[nickao]

Okay that was fast he said something about the SATA or Sata jet 3000 being superb. He was working so he could only take a minute to talk.

Now he does cars, so I have no idea if this is the best for woodworking or not.

I will find out more later.

Nick

 

[hs]

Hello first post here

From my experience and what I have read, it seems that there is less competition among the makers of turbine guns, than guns used with a compressor

I have the fuji q4, it is a good gun and it is possible to get very good finishes with no orange peel

I have both the 1.4 and the 1.0 tip, the latter can give you a slightly better finish, but not a dramatic improvement from my experience

I also have a devilbiss compact gun used with a 7.5 hp compressor,I can get good finish with both the fuji and the devilbiss, overall slightly better with the devilbiss.

 

[b_m_hart]

Hello first post here

From my experience and what I have read, it seems that there is less competition among the makers of turbine guns, than guns used with a compressor

I have the fuji q4, it is a good gun and it is possible to get very good finishes with no orange peel

I have both the 1.4 and the 1.0 tip, the latter can give you a slightly better finish, but not a dramatic improvement from my experience

I also have a devilbiss compact gun used with a 7.5 hp compressor,I can get good finish with both the fuji and the devilbiss, overall slightly better with the devilbiss.

7.5 hp?  Holy shnikey.  I've been looking at getting set up with the HVLP for a couple of different things - and am still trying to figure out how much of a compressor I'm going to need.  I've been looking at a dewalt ( Dewalt compressor ), but is it enough for this?

 

[John Langevin]

b_m

I have a 25 year old Craftsman 1 h.p. compressor that puts out 9 cfm @ 100psi. I use it with a Porter-Cable HVLP "conversion" gun that I paid $40 for. I use an additional in-line regulator and set it between 35 and 40 psi; it works fine. I don't have any additonal tips so I can't spray latex but it works fine with poly or pre-cat lacquers and waterborne products. I don't have any way of measuring the cfm consumption but I don't think it exceeds 10 cfm.

 

[hs]

7.5 hp?  Holy shnikey.  I've been looking at getting set up with the HVLP for a couple of different things - and am still trying to figure out how much of a compressor I'm going to need.  I've been looking at a dewalt ( Dewalt compressor ), but is it enough for this?

My post might seem misleading, I have a huge compressor because I need it for frash air mask aswell, and it is oversized, even for that task.

I bought it because I might use two guns and airfed masks in the future,  and  because it is a good idea to not push the compressor, let it have some breathing room.

I also got a very good deal

I think the minimum recomendation is around 3hp industrial rated motor for hvlp, but it might be lower with some of the most efficient guns.

as for the dewalt compressor, I am not shure weather it is big enough, there are many variables in the picture, different  air consumption from guns e.t.c

I have a 25 year old Craftsman 1 h.p. compressor that puts out 9 cfm @ 100psi

that compressor is probably much more powerful than a modern 1hp compressor, I have tried  cheap 1.4hp compressors and similar, and it produces nowhere near enough airflow.

Of course 2hp industrial rated and 2hp "hobby" is probably very different in actual performance in terms of continous airflow.

The devilbiss compact gun I use has similar transfer rate to hvlp, better than 65 prosent, but has higher pressure at the gun, the technology is called "trans tech"

You can also get a hvlp aircap for the devilbis compct gun, but I havent tried it.

It is possible to spray more material in less time with the "transtech" aircap, but a small drawback is that the higher air pressure makes it harder to place the piece that are sprayed, because the gun  has a tendency to blow up dust from nearby surfaces.
I use the Devilbis compact with both a cup and a 10 litre pressure pot.

the devilbiss gun is very easy to clean, just the air cap, and another part in the tip aswell as the cup and needle.

No spring e.t.c around the air cap.

I have read alot of reviews of turbine guns, and it seems that the accuspray 10 series gun is the best gun out there.  http://www.accuspray.ca/woodworking.html

The turbine for the fuji q4 is excellent, mainly due to its low noise level, the gun has good atomisation, and poor ergonomics.

 

[robtonya]

Okay that was fast he said something about the SATA or Sata jet 3000 being superb. He was working so he could only take a minute to talk.

Now he does cars, so I have no idea if this is the best for woodworking or not.

I will find out more later.

Nick

We use Sata cup guns for a quick spot prime before it gets painted at work. Nice guns. We also use Graco Finex guns for the same thing. I always wondered how well it would do on wood. The main guns before they hit the robots are Graco Pro-XS3. Electrostatic guns. I wish they would work on wood, but it wouldn't.  They need to spray on a surface that has a charge to it, then the gun builds its own charge, therefore causing the paint to be attracted to the body. It will actually wrap around the metal to areas where you wasn't aiming. It is supposed to be more efficient that way too.

 

[b_m_hart]

7.5 hp?  Holy shnikey.  I've been looking at getting set up with the HVLP for a couple of different things - and am still trying to figure out how much of a compressor I'm going to need.  I've been looking at a dewalt ( Dewalt compressor ), but is it enough for this?

My post might seem misleading, I have a huge compressor because I need it for frash air mask aswell, and it is oversized, even for that task.

I bought it because I might use two guns and airfed masks in the future,  and  because it is a good idea to not push the compressor, let it have some breathing room.

I also got a very good deal

I think the minimum recomendation is around 3hp industrial rated motor for hvlp, but it might be lower with some of the most efficient guns.

as for the dewalt compressor, I am not shure weather it is big enough, there are many variables in the picture, different  air consumption from guns e.t.c

I don't plan on doing massive jobs with it - maybe something the size of a door (3' x 7' ish), give or take a bit.  Primarily it's for sealing concrete, but as a bonus, I'd like to be able to use it to spray some of the wood stuff I've been tinkering with as well (legs for tables, etc)...

 

[woodshopdemos]

One other factor to consider: the feed. I always prefer gravity feed. I know it is abit clumsy to have the cup high and in your way, but if you use siphon feed, it takes more air pressure. I used to uise air brushes for art on cels (acetated) ofr photo skide imaging before all this digital stuff. I had a couple of air brushs with cups beneath and a couple with cups on top. The under cups required some air to create the siphon of th ematerial up to the nozzle area. The above cup used the minimal amount of air...sometimes 5 lbs was enough and you got much better control.
  There have also been a number of people on here who have gone the airless way. I always thought that you laid down too much paint with airless...but the users said that the ammount was regulated and it covered a cabinet real fast.
  I have been trying to get Graco and others to send me a unit for trial, but no takers yet.

 

[tbellemare]

Rob:

I know Sata gets top points from Body guys. Is the concern that it makes too much of a cloud?

Tom

 

[hs]

I don't plan on doing massive jobs with it - maybe something the size of a door (3' x 7' ish), give or take a bit.  Primarily it's for sealing concrete, but as a bonus, I'd like to be able to use it to spray some of the wood stuff I've been tinkering with as well (legs for tables, etc)...

I cant say for shure, but it might work out if you have a seperate bigger tank, 4.5 gallon is to small for spraying imo.

air consumption of devilbiss guns http://www.devilbisscompact.com/PDFs/20080801-CmPrt_ManAuto%207.pdf

note that this is at very low pressure, around 20-35 psi

the chart for the dewalt compressor only shows airflow at 100 psi

 

[robtonya]

Rob:

I know Sata gets top points from Body guys. Is the concern that it makes too much of a cloud?

Tom

I haven't noticed, but we are also in a down draft booth with water running underneath us collecting those particles. The Sata we use is the mini-jet, and it is used to shoot a little spot of primer where something was sanded after the primer.