Ultimate Dust Deputy CT 36 SHOCKS

[bobbobbob]

Just run a wire jumper from inlet to outlet.  By this I am referring to pinching one end of a bare conductor of wire from between the Festool AS hose and inlet and then doing the same on the outlet with the other end of the same wire.  It only has to be about 5 inches long.  This should solve your problem. 

Again, I am unfamiliar with what hoses that Oneida supplies so by leaving them out of the system (for now) would allow you to see if they are non-conducting.

I also don't care for the copper tape!  

 

[hanshamm]

I've contacted Oneida about the situation.  I have sent them pics of the working configuration versus their suggested configuration.  It's been about 2 weeks now without a resolution.  tic toc

 

[leakyroof]

Hmm, I've had my DD[UDD to be precise] mounted on my CT-22 since the "UDD" was first sold. I've never gotten a single static shock off the assembly, no matter which Festool item I'm using, or my 8" Clarke Drum Sander when I'm sanding a floor at home with the 36mm A-S Festool hose attached to the drum sander. Either I'm real lucky, or I live in a consistantly more humid climate here in Chicago.  OK, I'm not that lucky [embarassed], and Chicago is humid alot, but still, other than a dust build-up on the outside of the Oneida collection Box, all this is news to me.  I see that some people are in a dry area in CA. That could explain a few users, with humidty lower than 40%.
 Corwin is still showing the way with his ClearVue set-up, which is one way to go. I talked to my local dealer about a short A-S Festool hose to take the place of the white hose /feed hose[ from the outlet side of the cyclone to the inlet of the vacuum], provided by Oneida, the one that everyone suspects is the main culprit in loss of the static grounding circuit. We came up with a $115, standard length 50mm AS hose, if we looked up the right one.  I now understand the Boom Arm hose is available as a seperate replacement part, and is shorter at 5 foot long. Better fit than the 8.2 foot 50mm hose at $115 [embarassed]
If I understand other FOG posters on this, connect a wire at the inlet of the cyclone, and take the other end of the wire to the vacuum, bypassing the box. That seems to me to guarantee that the dust build-up on the outside of the UDD will get worse, not better, even if user shocks stop happening since you're really taking the box out of the equation. Yes, No? [unsure]
A fully run grounded circuit through the whole assembly, hoses and all, still seems like the best set-up. Avoid shocks at the tool end, and keep dust build-up down. This reminds me of the dust and animal hair that collects on the outside of our house vac from static build-up, and that's a really nice  Meile HEPA vac folks.  [tongue]
Corwin's solution still looks like the best way to go, for not alot of money on this.

 

[Timtool]

I think this is poor product design.  Festool does a great job grounding their system and its completely static free...as advertised...   

my CT22's hose gives me electric shocks whenever my naked arm and especially elbow touches it during sanding, small chocks but they sting!

 

[leakyroof]

I think this is poor product design.  Festool does a great job grounding their system and its completely static free...as advertised...   

my CT22's hose gives me electric shocks whenever my naked arm and especially elbow touches it during sanding, small chocks but they sting!

I'll have to ask this one, do you have the Green Anti-Static hose with the vacuum, or the non-AS hose?  Will make a difference.... [crying]

 

[hanshamm]

The configuration involves bypassing the UDD with a wire and using 50mm hose between the udd and the vac.  That's the only way I get no shocks.  Oneida's (at least a certain number of them) are NOT anti-static.  They do claim its static dissipating which is different than anti-static from what I read on plastics.  I'm sure it is sufficient for most humid places but in CA it isn't unless its raining outside (which it does a couple times a year) .

 

[leakyroof]

I saw your picture at the bottom of the thread. You do something very different with your UDD since you use a plastic bag in the collection box. I have a very early UDD without the later bag add-on kit. So, I'm wondering if the use of the plastic bag,which is probably insulating and not conducting static electricity build-up in the collection box, adds to your woes. You added the AS hose, which I'm doing later this week once I pick it up. I'll add a grounding wire if needed.  Humidity working levels are a real factor too. But on the bright side, you probably have less rust on your tools to worry about[yes? [embarassed]]

 

[hanshamm]

No i have the salt from the ocean to deal with.  Still need to have everything well boeshielded and wax.

That's a good point about the plastic bag and dust build up on the box...

Anyways Oneida never got back to me, after emailing them many times, so they have lost my business in the future.  When I get a larger dust collection system I'll be going with Clearvue cyclones.

 

[Steve Jaynes]

I know this is an old post, but had a strange encounter with a friend's Dust Deputy.  After he complained about getting shocked, I when to his shop, meter in hand.  Discovered ALL his hoses and connections had good connection, BUT the wall outlet in his garage was NOT grounded.

Pulling the cover plate off and outlet out of of the electrical box,  I found the ground wire dangling loose.  WHOOPS....!  [scared] [eek]

Everything fine now and Hot, Neutral, and ground all where they belong. 

Before you comment, yes Virginia, this is an old house and there's no Ground Fault Isolation in the garage.

Thought this was worth a comment.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Steve -- cool avatar...

Scot

 

[James Watriss]

I think this is poor product design.  Festool does a great job grounding their system and its completely static free...as advertised.   This isn't a difficult design feature and I hate that the DD is my weak link.  I shouldn't need to modify this product because it should be integrated.  Being an engineer I look poorly upon this oversight.  You would never see this type of quality/design issue from Festool that's why people love them so much.  This is a dead simple setup...there isn't much to understand here.   A circuit collects static charge to deliver to the ground.  Circuit is broken you get shocked.  There is no reason on a Festool vac it shouldn't be plug and play.

Maybe I need more coffee, but this response really gets under my skin. He's an engineer, and thus, I assume, he's capable of problem solving. And he's buying Festool, thus I assume he's actually interested in making, modifying, and building things. As problems go, this isn't a doozy, and the FOG as a resource has a lot of helpful suggestions to offer. I would think that someone with a brain and an interest in making and modifying really wouldn't be averse to, you know, making and modifying his setup to be better than the sum of the parts. But because the MFR hasn't made everything easy for him, he's not satisfied.

I don't mean to start a flame war, I really don't. But I spend so much time tweaking and tuning everything in my shop, that I really can't relate to this viewpoint. I just don't assume anything about out of the box components, except that they won't be at their best, much like little children, until I get to know them, and figure out how best to integrate them. The raw material isn't plug and play, most shop spaces aren't either. Every tool and every setup I have can always be better... Each improvement leads to a new revelation about what can be optimized. It's status quo, and ongoing. Evolution, man...

 

[Claimdude]

I think this is poor product design.  Festool does a great job grounding their system and its completely static free...as advertised.   This isn't a difficult design feature and I hate that the DD is my weak link.  I shouldn't need to modify this product because it should be integrated.  Being an engineer I look poorly upon this oversight.  You would never see this type of quality/design issue from Festool that's why people love them so much.  This is a dead simple setup...there isn't much to understand here.   A circuit collects static charge to deliver to the ground.  Circuit is broken you get shocked.  There is no reason on a Festool vac it shouldn't be plug and play.

Maybe I need more coffee, but this response really gets under my skin. He's an engineer, and thus, I assume, he's capable of problem solving. And he's buying Festool, thus I assume he's actually interested in making, modifying, and building things. As problems go, this isn't a doozy, and the FOG as a resource has a lot of helpful suggestions to offer. I would think that someone with a brain and an interest in making and modifying really wouldn't be averse to, you know, making and modifying his setup to be better than the sum of the parts. But because the MFR hasn't made everything easy for him, he's not satisfied.

I don't mean to start a flame war, I really don't. But I spend so much time tweaking and tuning everything in my shop, that I really can't relate to this viewpoint. I just don't assume anything about out of the box components, except that they won't be at their best, much like little children, until I get to know them, and figure out how best to integrate them. The raw material isn't plug and play, most shop spaces aren't either. Every tool and every setup I have can always be better... Each improvement leads to a new revelation about what can be optimized. It's status quo, and ongoing. Evolution, man...

Great post James! I agree with you 100%....

Jack

 

[tony jones]

I recently purchased the planex drywall sander with the ct36 auto clean and used it for 1500 sq ft of 2nd floor sanding on a new house. the setup worked great and i read about dust deputy and how great it was so went and bought the ultimate to go on top of festool extractor. after using for a coupl of hours or less the self clean started to act up and vac quit ,never to run again.  i returned it to the store and excvhanged it for another one. i connected a metal strap directly to ground and within ten minute of sucking up almost no dust the ct36 ac quit again. seems a little sensitive to me. I'm at a loss as to what to do.

 

[sgryd]

I have the all-metal DD. Would this be better regarding static charge? I think they call it "heavy duty" or something. I have never got myself a shock. If I'd get a shock I'd suspect one of the hoses since it's a non-antistatic Festool hose.

Could someone please explain how hoses should be properly grounded. I have heard that static electricity doesn't travel IN the hose but around the hose. Is this bullock? If it's true, how can a small wire take care of the static charge?

The reason I wonder is that if I get into trouble with my non-antistatic hose I'd like to know how to solve it. My setup is:
1. Vacuum
2. 1m antistatic 50mm Festool hose
3. DD (metal)
4. 2.5m Non-antistatic 50mm Festool hose
5. Festool Y-connector
6. Festool blast gate
7. 1.5m Festool antistatic hose
8. Tool

Someone might even be able to tell me why I don't get shocked with my present setup..

Oh, sorry for asking questions in a thread that's not mine. But I'd think the answer to this might interest the thread owner as well..

//Michael

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I recently purchased the planex drywall sander with the ct36 auto clean and used it for 1500 sq ft of 2nd floor sanding on a new house. the setup worked great and i read about dust deputy and how great it was so went and bought the ultimate to go on top of festool extractor. after using for a coupl of hours or less the self clean started to act up and vac quit ,never to run again.  i returned it to the store and excvhanged it for another one. i connected a metal strap directly to ground and within ten minute of sucking up almost no dust the ct36 ac quit again. seems a little sensitive to me. I'm at a loss as to what to do.

Welcome to the forum.

Using any third party accessory may void your warranty, as stated in our warranty documentation.

You're likely building up enough static electricity that you're zapping the electronics module in the CT. I had another customer that had done the same thing.

Use it without the Dust Deputy and see what happens... you won't fry the electronics and it will operate as expected.

I would advise you to contact Oneida and stop using the Dust Deputy until this is sorted out.

All electronics are prone to damage from a static discharge. So, the CT AC is not too sensitive. It's thousands of volts.

 

[sgryd]

Shane, if the electronics is that sensitive, why does Festool sell non-antistatic hoses?
//Michael

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Shane, if the electronics is that sensitive, why does Festool sell non-antistatic hoses?
//Michael

I'm sure Rick Christopherson will be able to offer his expertise on the matter of electronics and static discharge. I'm no engineer. But you could zap any electronics with static buildup. I know about this more from the perspective of computers. For instance, you can ruin RAM with static discharge just from walking around a room on carpet. So, it's not that our electronics are "too sensitive".

The Planex, due to the size of the pad and the environment that it's typical used in, has a much higher potential for creating static buildup. There's a moisture content in wood dust, but not in drywall dust. There's no Planex-specific hose that's non-antistatic.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Shane, if the electronics is that sensitive, why does Festool sell non-antistatic hoses?
//Michael

The hose isn't protecting the vac. It is just reducing discomfort for the operator. The hose bleeds off the static buildup at the tool and brings it back to the vac, which is (should be) connected to a grounded receptacle.

When you have something non-conductive in the middle of the path, it breaks the quasi-circuit that is used to dissipate the charge. This can allow a huge charge to build up in the far end of the system (i.e. the tool and hose). When this charge gets big enough (possibly into the 10's of thousands of volts), it no longer needs a conductor, per se. It will dissipate with an arc, and this dissipation will happen very fast. This will result in a massive electrical spike passing through the entire system. That spike can be large enough to zap just about any electronic system.

If you were using a non-anti-static hose, you wouldn't get this spike because the "gap" between the buildup is so long that it won't do a sudden discharge. However, with the Dust Deputies, the gap between the conductive parts is small enough that eventually it will build up enough voltage to jump the gap. Once an arc begins, it creates a plasma path for electricity, which is very low resistance. (If you want to search that, Google a "Jacobs Ladder".) This plasma path allows a lot of charge to pass in a very short time.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I'm not sure I understand why someone would use a DD with a CT AutoClean. Can someone explain? The CT AC doesn't use bags and the Planex doesn't produce large chips.  [scratch chin]

 

[sgryd]

Thanks Rick. This was really enlightening.
A couple of "would it make sense"-questions:

1. Would it make sense for my setup to ground the metallic DD to the same ground as the CTL is connected?

2. I have a huge metallic boom arm. At the end of the boom arm I connect my antistatic hoses through Festool blast gates and a Y-connector (are those conductive?). the non-antistatic hose runs along the boom arm to the DD. Would it make sense to connect the Festool blast gates to the boom arm with copper wire and ground the boom arm by the wall?

3. What kind of measurement should I get when I have succeeded with the grounding? I suppose it would be very high resistance through the green hoses, but not infinite. The places which are wire-grounded will give 0 Ohm, of course. That is - IF it's correct to ground it in the first place. I suspect that it would be bad to ground it to different outlets due to potential potential differences (that was fun to write).

I'm sorry, neither English nor electrics is my mother tounge. Hopefully it's not all rubbish I'm writing..
//Michael