Hi all, I've not posted in quite a while.
I bought a Domino 500 and accessories about ten years ago because of the promise of precise and uncomplicated loose tenon joinery from what was and still is pitched and priced as a premium tool. Illness and unexpected commitments meant that it was for a long time used only occasionally for very undemanding home carpentry type work.
Recent use in an attempt to accurately locate the edges of successive 40mm thick laminations in a bench top slab glue up in the same plane (by placing 8x22x40 dominos in the faces about 25mm back from the edges) threw up problems in use that should not have been present - it failed in the task. It's long out of warranty and consequently now a €1,500+ source of frustration.
This isn't just in hope of fixes beyond the usual work arounds (the usuals have been implemented) - it's also to ask does anybody have a data/measurement based overview of the big picture situation. As in (a) did I get a bad example, (b) are these problems present in current production and (c) does anybody sell a domino type insert made to decent tolerances?
The background is as follows.
The first discovery was that the dominos/inserts coming out of the very expensive systainer selection were several 10ths (around 0.3mm) below nominal thickness and fitted far too loosely in the slots cut in the laminations to be capable of aligning the edges - the potential misalignment/lamination was x2 the clearance.
The second was that the horizontal fence was moving in use - sometimes while cutting, at other times as a result of hand pressure on it while connecting a vacuum hose. It took a while, wasted good material and eventually required measurement to get to the bottom of what was happening - the initial possibilities were that the locking lever was not done up tightly enough, the fence was not set squarely or the tool was not properly seated on the work. (all were eliminated)
Getting back precisely to a lost horizontal fence height setting requires measurement with a height gauge or whatever - the scale is crude and useless.
Feedback on another forum established that neither the fence slippage nor the domino fit problem was unusual - but with some coming in (occasionally in a rather offended tone) to say that they had experienced no problems whatsoever.
The existence of a cottage industry in improved fences and of well known workarounds suggests however that the problems are in fact common.
I found that the two pads on the clamping block which bear on the back of the horizontal fence mounting frame were not seating properly - they were leaving only a line when the fence slipped. The pin comprising the third/inner leg (which seats in a drilled hole) was a bit too long/the hole not deep enough. Filing this back to length (very little material needed to be removed) so that the block tilted a hair and the pads gripped over their full area delivered some improvement, but it still wasn't enough.
The user recommended addition of extra length locking levers (a risky exercise given the only M5 stud and thread in the die casting - the originals are short for a reason) improved it further - to the point where the settings seem to stay put in use. It's not rock solid however - hand pressure on the top of the fence assembly when removing vacuum hoses can still cause it to move. The horizontal fence angle adjustment (useless scale apart) locks without problems.
The horizontal fence height adjustment and the associated angled seating face design (the primary locking mechanism) presumably worked in prototype form, so perhaps alignment error(s) were introduced in manufacturing...
The biscuit fit problem is still present. The tool seems to cut slots consistently on nominal size - despite the cutter being supported by a short and rather loose fitting bronze bushing. This looseness means that it's not possible to get back to a height setting by referencing measurements/a setting block off the cutter - measuring the height difference between the base and the horizontal fence does work.
Wetting the dominos/inserts causes them to go from being far too loose to being too thick to use. A more controlled humidification process might deliver a consistent interference fit, but setting it up would be a time wasting PIA and might anyway not be feasible if there is variation between batches of inserts.
The throw away excuse is that water based glues cause the inserts to expand, but that's not much use if using epoxy and/or if the requirement (as is the norm) is immediate and accurate location before clamping.
The commonly quoted work around (which is fine in situations where a loose tenon/insert to non standard dimensions may be required) is to make up your own strip. This however is a PIA and shouldn't be necessary. They if a large batch is made (one response to the PIA argument) presumably will also be subject to fit variations with changes in moisture content.
These fit problems leave the tool in similar territory to a budget biscuit jointer using mass market and normally loose fitting biscuits....
Might recent domino production by Festool or one of the others now offering inserts deliver the required light interference fit? I find myself looking at a close to €300 systainer full of undersize biscuits and struggling to find the motivation pony up more cash to buy alternatives to test....
I bought a Domino 500 and accessories about ten years ago because of the promise of precise and uncomplicated loose tenon joinery from what was and still is pitched and priced as a premium tool. Illness and unexpected commitments meant that it was for a long time used only occasionally for very undemanding home carpentry type work.
Recent use in an attempt to accurately locate the edges of successive 40mm thick laminations in a bench top slab glue up in the same plane (by placing 8x22x40 dominos in the faces about 25mm back from the edges) threw up problems in use that should not have been present - it failed in the task. It's long out of warranty and consequently now a €1,500+ source of frustration.
This isn't just in hope of fixes beyond the usual work arounds (the usuals have been implemented) - it's also to ask does anybody have a data/measurement based overview of the big picture situation. As in (a) did I get a bad example, (b) are these problems present in current production and (c) does anybody sell a domino type insert made to decent tolerances?
The background is as follows.
The first discovery was that the dominos/inserts coming out of the very expensive systainer selection were several 10ths (around 0.3mm) below nominal thickness and fitted far too loosely in the slots cut in the laminations to be capable of aligning the edges - the potential misalignment/lamination was x2 the clearance.
The second was that the horizontal fence was moving in use - sometimes while cutting, at other times as a result of hand pressure on it while connecting a vacuum hose. It took a while, wasted good material and eventually required measurement to get to the bottom of what was happening - the initial possibilities were that the locking lever was not done up tightly enough, the fence was not set squarely or the tool was not properly seated on the work. (all were eliminated)
Getting back precisely to a lost horizontal fence height setting requires measurement with a height gauge or whatever - the scale is crude and useless.
Feedback on another forum established that neither the fence slippage nor the domino fit problem was unusual - but with some coming in (occasionally in a rather offended tone) to say that they had experienced no problems whatsoever.
The existence of a cottage industry in improved fences and of well known workarounds suggests however that the problems are in fact common.
I found that the two pads on the clamping block which bear on the back of the horizontal fence mounting frame were not seating properly - they were leaving only a line when the fence slipped. The pin comprising the third/inner leg (which seats in a drilled hole) was a bit too long/the hole not deep enough. Filing this back to length (very little material needed to be removed) so that the block tilted a hair and the pads gripped over their full area delivered some improvement, but it still wasn't enough.
The user recommended addition of extra length locking levers (a risky exercise given the only M5 stud and thread in the die casting - the originals are short for a reason) improved it further - to the point where the settings seem to stay put in use. It's not rock solid however - hand pressure on the top of the fence assembly when removing vacuum hoses can still cause it to move. The horizontal fence angle adjustment (useless scale apart) locks without problems.
The horizontal fence height adjustment and the associated angled seating face design (the primary locking mechanism) presumably worked in prototype form, so perhaps alignment error(s) were introduced in manufacturing...
The biscuit fit problem is still present. The tool seems to cut slots consistently on nominal size - despite the cutter being supported by a short and rather loose fitting bronze bushing. This looseness means that it's not possible to get back to a height setting by referencing measurements/a setting block off the cutter - measuring the height difference between the base and the horizontal fence does work.
Wetting the dominos/inserts causes them to go from being far too loose to being too thick to use. A more controlled humidification process might deliver a consistent interference fit, but setting it up would be a time wasting PIA and might anyway not be feasible if there is variation between batches of inserts.
The throw away excuse is that water based glues cause the inserts to expand, but that's not much use if using epoxy and/or if the requirement (as is the norm) is immediate and accurate location before clamping.
The commonly quoted work around (which is fine in situations where a loose tenon/insert to non standard dimensions may be required) is to make up your own strip. This however is a PIA and shouldn't be necessary. They if a large batch is made (one response to the PIA argument) presumably will also be subject to fit variations with changes in moisture content.
These fit problems leave the tool in similar territory to a budget biscuit jointer using mass market and normally loose fitting biscuits....
Might recent domino production by Festool or one of the others now offering inserts deliver the required light interference fit? I find myself looking at a close to €300 systainer full of undersize biscuits and struggling to find the motivation pony up more cash to buy alternatives to test....
Last edited:
