Updated TS-55 machines, sans riving knife.....

[Tom the Remodeler]

Looks like Festool has updated the TS-55 saws again, both corded and cordless. The primary update seems to be the elimination of the riving knife, with kick-back considerations addressed by a system similar to what Mafell has been using in their MT-55 saws for years. It's interesting to me that Festool opted for a mechanical sensor, as opposed to internal electronics as in the Mafell, I wonder if there is a patent Festool had to work around?

Also, it appears the new TS-55 machines will utilize the more narrow kerf blades like the HK saws and Mafell saws.

Anyways, interesting developments. I would suspect that this might also explain the temporary disappearance of the TS-75, I would think they're working on replacing the riving knife with the kickback sensor into that machine as well.

I've only tripped the kickback sensor on my MT-55 a handful of times, always when ripping thick, sawn lumber. It's incredibly fast, one moment you're sawing, the next moment everything is completely quiet and still, and I have to go get a wedge to spread the kerf so I can pull the saw out of the cut. Mafell's solution works extremely well, my concern with the Festool solution is that it requires the saw to physically rise out of the cut, but I may be splitting hairs here....

EDIT: the braking feature is only on the cordless machine, the corded TS-55F will just be using the thinner kerf blades. Thanks Squall_line for catching this. Odd that they are only doing this on the cordless, my corded MT-55 has the brake....
=736s

 

[squall_line]

I thought they were only removing the riving knife from the TSC?
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/new-improved-ts55/
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/new-tsc-55-k-saw-and-tpc-18-drill/

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I thought they were only removing the riving knife from the TSC?
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/new-improved-ts55/
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/new-tsc-55-k-saw-and-tpc-18-drill/

Yup, you're correct, at 12:00 they address that the TS-55F will use the thinner kerf blades, but not the braking tech. I'll edit the first post to reflect this.

 

[RustE]

I’m ready to see the 1,8mm blade options for my HK55.  Wonder how long before those start appearing at U.S. dealers?

 

[Cheese]

With the corded TS-55F using only the thin kerf blades but retaining the riving knife, maybe the older TS 55 saws can be more easily changed over to the thin kerf blades by using the thinner riving knife. Would be nice if the new fits the old.  [smile]

 

[RustE]

...
maybe the older TS 55 saws can be more easily changed over to the thin kerf blades by using the thinner riving knife
...

Tenryu PSW-16052CB2TK is both a thin kerf blade (.063 inch or ~1,6 mm) and a riving knife.  Not sure on the thickness of the riving knife.

 

[DeformedTree]

It's interesting to me that Festool opted for a mechanical sensor, as opposed to internal electronics as in the Mafell, I wonder if there is a patent Festool had to work around?

Anyways, interesting developments. I would suspect that this might also explain the temporary disappearance of the TS-75, I would think they're working on replacing the riving knife with the kickback sensor into that machine as well.

I think they were doing this as a min effort design job. Probably just to get the life of these generation of saw extended a bit longer with minimal rework/cost. So they couldn't do massive changes to the tools/their motors to do this change. I don't know that we can go linking the TS-75 situation to this, but they did happen at the same time. Maybe there is some legislation change coming or festool has found they may be in a grey area on some safety rule and had to do something quick. It is odd for them to just suddenly do this small change.  Maybe some of this is they may be still trying to figure out where they are going with the saws longer term, and this gives them more time. I'm guessing a lot of companies are trying to decide if they continue the corded tools, and that decision will drive overall designs going forward.

If this does have something with the TS-75, maybe they did have to pull it temporarily till they can come out with some quick changes.

I don't think our EU friends have indicated any recent safety law changes over there that would force such changes. So it does still look a bit odd to do this.

 

[Chainring]

If what my vendor told me is true, I'll have the TSC 55K in hand today. It's on the UPS truck now...

Really strange that Festool USA still hasn't posted the TSC 55K, yet Festool International, Festool UK and other have had it up for at least a couple of months.

 

[DeformedTree]

If what my vendor told me is true, I'll have the TSC 55K in hand today. It's on the UPS truck now...

Really strange that Festool USA still hasn't posted the TSC 55K, yet Festool International, Festool UK and other have had it up for at least a couple of months.

Festool USA gets tools 6-12 months after the EU market, so that is normal.  They actually had it on the Festool USA website for a moment when this first came out.  I'm surprised if they are getting here this fast.

 

[Bob D.]

What is the issue with the riving knife on the TSC55?

Why do away with it. It has not ever stopped me from
making a cut nor do I see how it makes those cuts more
dangerous than no knife.

What am I missing?

 

[Svar]

I've only tripped the kickback sensor on my MT-55 a handful of times, always when ripping thick, sawn lumber. It's incredibly fast, one moment you're sawing, the next moment everything is completely quiet and still, and I have to go get a wedge to spread the kerf so I can pull the saw out of the cut. Mafell's solution works extremely well, ...

I'd much prefer physical riving knife over electronic solution. The knife does more than just preventing kickback. It's a wedge that lets me keep cutting reactive wood or thin dangling strips without a) stopping or b) catching it by back teeth and gouging it.

P.S. Perhaps having sensors in addition to the riving knife makes sense for situations such as plunging into material or running into a steel screw (don't ask how I know).

 

[DeformedTree]

I like that the STM has fallen to nature.  If you put a surface on top of something, it becomes a table, and will get a lot of stuff piled on to it.  They could have used a MFT/3.

 

[mino]

What is the issue with the riving knife on the TSC55?

Why do away with it. It has not ever stopped me from
making a cut nor do I see how it makes those cuts more
dangerous than no knife.

What am I missing?

Marketing perspective.
I noticed through the year that people were dissing Festool left and right on youtube et al for "annoying" riving knife while Makita does not have one and Maffel has this "special electronics" thing and Festool is "just stuck in past".

Usual problems with social network bubbles. They inflate pseudo-issue to the point companies are forced to address them at the cost of creating real issues which are too complex for today's shallow reviewers to comprehend. Couple this with Festool's persistent incompetence in marketing their features and you get this mess of mature but unique features like the sliding knife being dropped to give way to gimmicks.

It is ironic that they put this on the TSC only as physical riving knife is essential for free-hand ripping and if one it to use a TS like a HK, it would be the TSC one ... (guilty as charged).

 

[danrush]

What is the issue with the riving knife on the TSC55?

Why do away with it. It has not ever stopped me from
making a cut nor do I see how it makes those cuts more
dangerous than no knife.

What am I missing?

Not speaking to the safety aspect of a knife or not, but I'd welcome the removal of the physical knife for my use.

When cutting prefinished or laminated materials, (99% of my work)  I routinely make a scoring cut about 5-10mm deep drawing the saw backwards thru the material, then follow that up with a full depth cut, to avoid splinters and chips. When performing this cut on the very edge of a piece, the knife can drop down along the edge of the material, dragging the saw and track askew, or binding.

Admittedly my needs are pretty non standard, and surely not a reason for the change, but I'll probably update my saw for that reason alone.

 

[mino]

Not speaking to the safety aspect of a knife or not, but I'd welcome the removal of the physical knife for my use.

When cutting prefinished or laminated materials, (99% of my work)  I routinely make a scoring cut about 5-10mm deep drawing the saw backwards thru the material, then follow that up with a full depth cut, to avoid splinters and chips. When performing this cut on the very edge of a piece, the knife can drop down along the edge of the material, dragging the saw and track askew, or binding.

Admittedly my needs are pretty non standard, and surely not a reason for the change, but I'll probably update my saw for that reason alone.

In this use case I would remove the knife as it is purely mechanical and there is no sensor to tell the saw it is not there. But not sure how that would go ref regulations should there be an accident in a professional setting ...

I have a Parkside tracksaw which does not have any riving knife, so practical safety would still be fine. The saw should retract the blade if it goes on a flying excursion ...

 

[FestitaMakool]

What is the issue with the riving knife on the TSC55?

Why do away with it. It has not ever stopped me from
making a cut nor do I see how it makes those cuts more
dangerous than no knife.

What am I missing?

Marketing perspective.
I noticed through the year that people were dissing Festool left and right on youtube et al for "annoying" riving knife while Makita does not have one and Maffel has this "special electronics" thing and Festool is "just stuck in past".

Usual problems with social network bubbles. They inflate pseudo-issue to the point companies are forced to address them at the cost of creating real issues which are too complex for today's shallow reviewers to comprehend. Couple this with Festool's persistent incompetence in marketing their features and you get this mess of mature but unique features like the sliding knife being dropped to give way to gimmicks.

It is ironic that they put this on the TSC only as physical riving knife is essential for free-hand ripping and if one it to use a TS like a HK, it would be the TSC one ... (guilty as charged).

Well said Mino  [smile] Offensive marketing is not Festool’s strength, but I do believe they often tap in listening to their users. More so than the ones that are highly offensive in their marketing.
So to speak, and to Festool users delight they are good at the consumer behaviour part of marketing.

That said, I’m a highly potential customer for the new TS 55FEBQ. Although, I’d like to know if it will be compatible with the CMS TS 55R module, as the new model will have a thinner riving knife, and when used in the module you (can) replace the riving knife with the one that comes with the module. Only that one is for 2,2mm kerf.. If the riving knife can be grind down from ^2,2 to ^1,8 and the attachment points still are the same. Soo if anyone happens to buy a “F” and have a module I’d be very happy to know.

 

[ear3]

I don't have time to watch the video right now, but is that a new drill guide in the lower right, or just the old pro tools one?

 

[ChuckM]

Once a track saw user (for only a brief period of time), I wonder why the riving knife needed to go for the anti-kick back feature. Can't they both exist?

In a recent ripping of 2"+ thick oak planks, the riving knife on my SawStop didn't completely prevent binding. I had to wedge the end midway. Without the riving knife the situation could have been worse.

 

[mino]

Once a track saw user (for only a brief period of time), I wonder why the riving knife needed to go for the anti-kick back feature. Can't they both exist?

The anti-kickback sensor is mechanical and occupies the place riving knife mechanism occupied. No way to fit both.

Not sure why Festool did not use an electronic sensor like Maffel instead of a mechanical one, but there probably was some good reason for that.

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks, Mino. I'd prefer an electronic version then.