Using an ETS EC 150/5 for Car Paint Detailing - Could Use Some Advice Please

They all get a little warm, but it shouldn't really be, what you would call hot.

Now, you are talking about some skill. Then there is shaving the tops off of runs. with a razor blade. That one takes a minute to master too.
That’s what denibbing files are for, I have carbide and razor blade styles in my tool box.

Sucks the most on metallics to remove a run, the metallics bunch at the bottom of the run.

Tom
 
If you look at orbital polishers they will have an orbit of maybe 16mm, or 20mm, or 25mm.
My sander has an orbit of 3mm --- if I put a soft, thick pad on it, the orbit would be about zero at the workpiece.
So I invested in a real polisher for polishing finish.
 
Thanks for the photos. Is it possible you could describe the steps you did and material choices please? I can see the various grades of disks and get the basic idea but little step by step would be brilliant. There's not so much data out there on Festool and paint polishing although I did see reference to a kit that Festool do for this purpose.
1. I start by using the finest grit paper that will cut through the yellow haze. I'll start with 500 and sand a small area quickly and check the results. If it's not quite cutting through the haze I'll switch to 400 and try again or then go to 320, 280 or 240.
On the first headlight I ever sanded, I started at 240 grit and learned my lesson quickly. If you don't need to use that coarse of paper then don't because it just means more sanding steps before you get to the final polish.

2. I also like to wet sand as the water provides a lubricating effect and the scratch pattern appears smoother and more uniform. The water also washes away any grit particles.

3. I first mist the area with a spray water bottle and sand while checking for an even, uniform finish, then when I'm satisfied, I'll flood the area with the hose to wash away the particles and then wipe with a clean paper towel.

4. Install the next finer paper grit on the Rotex, mist the area again and repeat sanding, rinsing and wiping the area with another clean paper towel.
I use paper towels because after the area is wiped, the paper towel gets thrown out so there's never a chance of wiping the area with a towel that was used to clean up a coarser grit sanding step.

5. After sanding with 4000/5000 I then use a liquid polish with a black or white foam sponge. The RO 90 and all Rotex sanders for that matter, need to have a polishing pad attached when using the foam polishing sponges. All Festool Rotex polishing pads are color coded green.
 

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Hello, im new here. Im across the pond, on the edge of the world (Russian border is 20 miles from me).

I started my own (rural) automotive paintshop gig because got fed up with town workshop dramas and useless grind where pocket is still empty. Commute on top.

Anyway, im too poor on my nonexisting budget to get cheap and monofunctional tools. For rough paint and putty removal i got myself Festool Rotex RO 150 and 90 (and yes, even delta comes very handy sometimes because im not going to buy one more Deos). For milder stuff its Mirka Deroses-Deoses. I have electric Rupes long block as, for larger areas. Its a beast on its own.

What i liked about Rotexes that they are basically all in one- from rust rippers and putty knockers to forced rotation polishers. Bigger one has the same stats as Rupes Mille and there isnt analogue to RO90. Zero competition in 3" forced rotation polishers.


My approach with headlights is much more crude because it has lasted the test of times. P500 dry, P800 and 2k acrylic clearcoat. Plastic primer only creates trouble. Yea, with polishing you can win time (clear has to dry a bit) but you will leave the lens without a protective layer. Depends on your location and climate, the lights might get nasty soon again. Also these acetone vapour cans are so-so, the effect isnt long lasting.
 
Many thanks for the reply. I do have a Rotex but it felt very heavy duty compared to the ETS. I'd sort of wrote it off on that basis but that's interesting to know about. I'm just trying to remember the model number of our unit. It's certainly of the same era as the unit you mention.

The photos are very interesting and great result. There's clearly more to learn here than I originally thought. (y)
I started polishing with plain Randon Orbit Sanders and foam pads long ago before I had more dedicated machines to work with. They're fine, they're slower than High Orbit or High Throw machines, but safer for someone just starting out. As noted by others above, the 'FAST' machines back in the day were heavy, rotary only, and the easiest to burn through a layer of paint if you weren't careful.
Rotex mode will work fine if you have a Rotex, a straight ETS EC will work too, just allow for more time, and not as much defect removal as a more powerful machine.
ALSO, very important, if you're switching usage for your single sander between projects and your car's paint, PLEASE vacuum or blow out debris and stray abrasive dust before you start polishing the paint on a Car. You don't want that single BLOB of hard dirt or abrasive getting between your pad and the paint after it fell off the sander.
Griots Garage is another source of Polishers. I own two of them, 6" and 3", and I also have one Festool Shinex, and a 3" pneumatic polisher.
Plus one on using the RO 90 for Headlight Lens Renovation.. (y) (y)
 
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I started polishing with plain Randon Orbit Sanders and foam pads long ago before I had more dedicated machines to work with. They fine, they're slower than High Orbit or High Throw machines, but safer for someone just starting out. As noted by others above, the 'FAST' machines back in the day were heavy, rotary only, and the easiest to burn through a layer of paint if you weren't careful.
Rotex mode will work fine if you have a Rotex, a straight ETS EC will work too, just allow for more time, and not as much defect removal as a more powerful machine.
ALSO, very important, if you're switching usage for your single sander between projects and your car's paint, PLEASE vacuum or blow out debris and stray abrasive dust before you start polishing the paint on a Car. You don't want that single BLOB of hard dirt or abrasive getting between your pad and the paint after it fell off the sander.
Griots Garage is another source of Polishers. I own two of them, 6" and 3", and I also have one Festool Shinex, and a 3" pneumatic polisher.
Plus one on using the RO 90 for Headlight Lens Renovation.. (y) (y)

This is interesting .... in fact both the last posts arrived just as I was revisiting this thread. I've arranged send my Rotex in to Festool for repair. It works but it gets horribly hot in the body after medium use. I was told some while back by a Festool person that it was a known issue and mentioned some part that was likely worn. needless to say I did nothing about it then but I am in the process of arranging that repair/refresh right now .... driven by the data in this thread.

Now in fact we have two cars I'd like to do this one. One is a 10 year old Toyota Aygo that is in fact in amazing condition for the year ... no apparent accident damage an one a single very minor dent .... incredible in fact. But it struck me as a good candidate to try a little paint correction on with limited risk. The other one is a 22 plate Mercedes which has been owned since new, also never had any accident damage, has been well looked after and only cleaned with di-ionised water but has got a very minor scuff or two. I'm more wary of learning new stuff on this one.

Also the Rotex is such a beast to use .... heavy, physically harsh (maybe due to internal fault and the subsequent heat build up) that it phases me a bit to think of using that. Even though the skilled advice is that's the best for the job. Let's see how it performs after repair ... it maybe entirely different.

So knowing the way more gentle (to me, an amateur) feels more comfortable right now. And indeed on the larger, newer, better looked after and way more costly Merc, this feels more instinctive. And indeed less defect removal will be needed ... I think. I have clay bared it once and in reality very little came off. Maybe down to a pretty thorough cleaning routine and using the di-ionised, not sure.

Great advice on cleaning whichever unit down before attempting the car. it's true that our Festool sanding units work hard and maintaining for our own internal and external decorating projects. A blast out with compressed air and even a head exchange for more precise work would be worthwhile .... and a spare no bad thing anyway. Think I will get a new head for this project.

Going back to the older car, although the paint and bodywork in in incredibility good shape for age, the headlights are very worn on the outside. Certainly they need refinishing.
 
Hello, im new here. Im across the pond, on the edge of the world (Russian border is 20 miles from me).

I started my own (rural) automotive paintshop gig because got fed up with town workshop dramas and useless grind where pocket is still empty. Commute on top.

Anyway, im too poor on my nonexisting budget to get cheap and monofunctional tools. For rough paint and putty removal i got myself Festool Rotex RO 150 and 90 (and yes, even delta comes very handy sometimes because im not going to buy one more Deos). For milder stuff its Mirka Deroses-Deoses. I have electric Rupes long block as, for larger areas. Its a beast on its own.

What i liked about Rotexes that they are basically all in one- from rust rippers and putty knockers to forced rotation polishers. Bigger one has the same stats as Rupes Mille and there isnt analogue to RO90. Zero competition in 3" forced rotation polishers.


My approach with headlights is much more crude because it has lasted the test of times. P500 dry, P800 and 2k acrylic clearcoat. Plastic primer only creates trouble. Yea, with polishing you can win time (clear has to dry a bit) but you will leave the lens without a protective layer. Depends on your location and climate, the lights might get nasty soon again. Also these acetone vapour cans are so-so, the effect isnt long lasting.
Interesting you mention the phase 'rust ripper' .... like that and indeed my own step into using and buying the Rotex (and the ETS 150) was after advice from a top tier painter and decorator (i.e the sort of guy who painted stuff for Madonna when she was in the UK and other celebs and has a waiting list for home decor work about 3 + years long) .... he explained how to do wall and woodwork polishing with products like Toupret TX130 and Gras a Lacquer for woodwork using the ETS 150 etc and also described the Rotex 150 as for "grinding the underside of our 1994 330k Peugeot 106 prior to welding" :)

Have to confess that is pretty much what the Rotex has been used for to date .... that and careful hard wood floor refinishing where those larger frame based machines were a little too heavy duty for.

You mention about headlight refinishing. Whilst the car is very straight clean and original, the headlights have a very worn finish. I'd be interested to understand more of a step by step on your approach to doing the headlights ... I get the theme but being a learner, I could a little bit of a 'dummies guide' step by step if you could?

And whilst I say the car in great shape, the rear tailgate glass has some very odd deep scratches on it. I thought replacement might be in order but I'm told that they can be refinished using Cerium oxide with a thin, stiff pad. The scratches are noticeable to the eye and also to the nail test. Again I've never done this but wondering if you or others have?
 
1. I start by using the finest grit paper that will cut through the yellow haze. I'll start with 500 and sand a small area quickly and check the results. If it's not quite cutting through the haze I'll switch to 400 and try again or then go to 320, 280 or 240.
On the first headlight I ever sanded, I started at 240 grit and learned my lesson quickly. If you don't need to use that coarse of paper then don't because it just means more sanding steps before you get to the final polish.

2. I also like to wet sand as the water provides a lubricating effect and the scratch pattern appears smoother and more uniform. The water also washes away any grit particles.

3. I first mist the area with a spray water bottle and sand while checking for an even, uniform finish, then when I'm satisfied, I'll flood the area with the hose to wash away the particles and then wipe with a clean paper towel.

4. Install the next finer paper grit on the Rotex, mist the area again and repeat sanding, rinsing and wiping the area with another clean paper towel.
I use paper towels because after the area is wiped, the paper towel gets thrown out so there's never a chance of wiping the area with a towel that was used to clean up a coarser grit sanding step.

5. After sanding with 4000/5000 I then use a liquid polish with a black or white foam sponge. The RO 90 and all Rotex sanders for that matter, need to have a polishing pad attached when using the foam polishing sponges. All Festool Rotex polishing pads are color coded green.

Just re-reading the thread content and it's become a really useful collection of automotive correction information for those in the starting position I was in. Still am in reality but I'm feeling hugely better prepared to be doing not only the paint but headlights and hopefully the tailgate glass as well.

This is great data, many thank to you and indeed all here for taking the time. I hope this thread continues to gather data points and become a full repository of all such related aspects. (y)
 
It seems to me that the heating on my RO150 is normal - but perhaps one of the others can confirm. My GET75 also gets similarly warm.

No this one gets warm enough to need to out it down after after 15 minutes or so. It's proper hot to the body area. It works well enough (I think) but very uncomfortable. The discussion we have been having here has prompted to get Festool to do a proper repair/refresh .... it was an ebay unit to start with and whilst I think it's operating correctly, now might be the time to invest before unleashing it on more sensitive finishes.
 
They all get a little warm, but it shouldn't really be, what you would call hot.

Now, you are talking about some skill. Then there is shaving the tops off of runs. with a razor blade. That one takes a minute to master too.

Yeah this was above my pay grade ;) ... but worth to know about. The cars in question both have fully original paint... amazingly.

That said we do have a couple of older work-a-day cars ... real old 94' models that we maintain and sort ourselves, including the very occasional respray, which I rather enjoy doing, so this is actually interesting stuff as well. In fact after needing to weld in two new sills on our 94' Nissan Micra and a ton of hard earned miles on it, next year is time to give that a respray thinking on. If time allows.
 
No this one gets warm enough to need to out it down after after 15 minutes or so. It's proper hot to the body area. It works well enough (I think) but very uncomfortable. The discussion we have been having here has prompted to get Festool to do a proper repair/refresh .... it was an ebay unit to start with and whilst I think it's operating correctly, now might be the time to invest before unleashing it on more sensitive finishes.
Since it is an eBay purchase I'm presuming it's outside of the original warranty - is this a repair that Festool will be charging you? Or is this a known issue they are willing to address?
 
Since it is an eBay purchase I'm presuming it's outside of the original warranty - is this a repair that Festool will be charging you? Or is this a known issue they are willing to address?

Yes, way outside and an old ebay purchase as well. but Festool here do an excellent repair service. The ETC 150 (bought new but over 10 years old it turned out) developed a fault and they do a collect, quote and return service. it wasn't cheap but was solid and certainly way cheaper than buying new. From memory I seem to think they also do a full component shake down and replace anything they consider needs replacing which is an approach I like. The repair cycle time was longer than I might of expected. I think they ship them straight off to Germany from the documentation I saw.

I did get the impression that the Rotex 150 hot body was a well known issue and indeed they offered up the component they thought it may of been. I don't recall precisely what this was but seem to think it might related to a clutch mechanism? I've never heard of a clutch in one of these but it rings a bell. That might make more sense to you than me. But this ask was maybe 4-5 years back and I didn't actually action it then. And in fairness it is an old unit and I wouldn't expect them to do anything other than a chargeable repair.

I have to say, our Festool gear (in fact all our gear) works way beyond what is reasonable ..... I certainly had my moneys worth.
 
Apologies .... bit of a post overload today. But to confirm, this is the Rotex I've been mentioning previously.

I mention as I'm not too familiar with the suffix data .... the FEQ reference. It's just to check I'm refering to the right machine for the job before I destroy something valuable :)

The unit is off to Festool as we speak for a shake down so will gone a couple of weeks minimum I guess ..... this is the unit, it's a Rotex 150 FEQ .... hopefully the right one for the job.

DSC_0484.JPG
 
It'll be interesting as to how it performs after the Festool service...maybe the heat issue will be minimized. :) I owned one of the original Fein multitools that had an aluminum head and after using if continuously for about 10-15 minutes I'd have to put on heavy leather gloves to continue the work. It didn't burn your hands but it was very uncomfortable...just part of its heritage I think.

I've used cerium oxide before and my experience is that if you can feel the scratch with your finger nail it's very unlikely you'll be able to completely remove the scratch. It'll look better because the surrounding area and parts of the scratch will be polished but you'll still feel the scratch.

Here's a thread (reply 283) of some mineral etching that I successfully removed from several glasses using a RO 90, a blue foam pad & some 3M cerium oxide.

 

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It'll be interesting as to how it performs after the Festool service...maybe the heat issue will be minimized. :) I owned one of the original Fein multitools that had an aluminum head and after using if continuously for about 10-15 minutes I'd have to put on heavy leather gloves to continue the work. It didn't burn your hands but it was very uncomfortable...just part of its heritage I think.

I've used cerium oxide before and my experience is that if you can feel the scratch with your finger nail it's very unlikely you'll be able to completely remove the scratch. It'll look better because the surrounding area and parts of the scratch will be polished but you'll still feel the scratch.

Here's a thread (reply 283) of some mineral etching that I successfully removed from several glasses using a RO 90, a blue foam pad & some 3M cerium oxide.


Yeah me too. I'm literally waiting for UPS to collect it right now. Needless to say they late
:)

Thanks for the linked post .... very interesting and the 3M CO reference is also useful. Can sympathise with the issue with your glasses. I had the same. Posh hotel I used to stay in, in Amsterdam each week for work used to have these great bar glasses. needless to say I acquired what I considered to be 'more than enough' over the years but it seems not. One by one they met with an unfortunate end and I'm left with just three of them now. I think when the Rotex is back, the blue foam and CO solutions arrive, I will do the same exercise on mine :)

The scratches on the tailgate do appear deep. Not actually functionally causing issue but cosmetically rough. So as long as they improve the cosmetics aspect, that will be enough. Thanks for sending the link and information .... it builds knowledge and indeed confidence for sure.
 
Apologies .... bit of a post overload today. But to confirm, this is the Rotex I've been mentioning previously.

I mention as I'm not too familiar with the suffix data .... the FEQ reference. It's just to check I'm refering to the right machine for the job before I destroy something valuable :)

The unit is off to Festool as we speak for a shake down so will gone a couple of weeks minimum I guess ..... this is the unit, it's a Rotex 150 FEQ .... hopefully the right one for the job.

View attachment 378365
Thats the ripper right there. You are unstoppable with that, on anything. Mine have some nasty resonance (from time to time) from somekind of washer under the pad, maybe i should ship it in. Bought it in March

Remove dust port or not, use Festool own polishing system or Koch or whatever, you can make serious corrections with that. Get a pair of ear muffs and frontal handle.

I grinded off eem, i think seven different coats of paint with it today. From Triumph Spitfire. Used bit of RO 90 and Rupes long block and two Deoses also. We are working with what we have there on panel because budget does not favor full strip down. Sorry that theres only pictures of other tools, Festos were hanging on my cart, behind me. :)

Regarding lights. RO 90, soft pad or interface and let it rip in rotex mode on the haze. P500. Do it once in fine mode also. Then get 800 and get the previous marks out. If you want to be pedantic, continue with finer grits (i did it on this Toyota). Mask it and shoot 1.5 to 2 coats of 2K acrylic clear. Later in life theres enought to buff when the need arises.
Paintbooth isnt a must.
 

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Thats the ripper right there. You are unstoppable with that, on anything. Mine have some nasty resonance (from time to time) from somekind of washer under the pad, maybe i should ship it in. Bought it in March

Remove dust port or not, use Festool own polishing system or Koch or whatever, you can make serious corrections with that. Get a pair of ear muffs and frontal handle.

I grinded off eem, i think seven different coats of paint with it today. From Triumph Spitfire. Used bit of RO 90 and Rupes long block and two Deoses also. We are working with what we have there on panel because budget does not favor full strip down. Sorry that theres only pictures of other tools, Festos were hanging on my cart, behind me. :)

Regarding lights. RO 90, soft pad or interface and let it rip in rotex mode on the haze. P500. Do it once in fine mode also. Then get 800 and get the previous marks out. If you want to be pedantic, continue with finer grits (i did it on this Toyota). Mask it and shoot 1.5 to 2 coats of 2K acrylic clear. Later in life theres enought to buff when the need arises.
Paintbooth isnt a must.

Super stuff, thanks for sharing that .... all new stuff for me but this sort of data builds confidence to have a go at this. And for us, given it's only working on our own cars, then we can take the time and be pedantic in the detailing. I like that.

Time wise I'm drowning in other projects. And of course I need to wait for the 150 to come back all freshed up. So there will be a bit of a delay before I can do the tailgate, headlights or paint unfortunately .... we never bored here :) but looking forward to this one. Learning a lot.
 
Regarding lights. RO 90, soft pad or interface and let it rip in rotex mode on the haze. P500. Do it once in fine mode also. Then get 800 and get the previous marks out. If you want to be pedantic, continue with finer grits (i did it on this Toyota). Mask it and shoot 1.5 to 2 coats of 2K acrylic clear. Later in life theres enought to buff when the need arises.
Paintbooth isnt a must.
Nice job on the headlights. (y)
 
Nice job on the headlights. (y)
Thanks. My bread and butter. Looks nice but its more about saftey- its dark here. My Volvo S70 headlights are nice... and made out of glass :)

Main point is to understand when paper gets clogged, wet or dry sanding (dust extraction on RO90 is so-so)
And when the previous marks are out - clean water will show similar to end results. And keeping heat under control.


First orbital polisher that i have used is FLEX PXE 80 wich i aquired in spring. Other than that, every workshop where i worked had only rotaries.
So, i got RO90 for bit more oomph and different role than Flex. Dedicated polishers would be nice but come on, Mille is a thing. A good one but... monofunctional.
 
I will weigh in only in general. Eastwood is an excellent source for all things for automotive finishing. Fast delivery, good pricing, especially on their own brands of stuff.

I’ve used them several times and happy with the product, price and service each time.

 
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