Using CT Vacs with 75 Plunge - max amperage?

JSands

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Oct 28, 2010
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I have been ultra happy with the 75 plunge saw / tracks / CT22 Vac.  Been using it for over a year.

But now I want to benefit from the vac powering on when the saw comes on.  I tried this early on, but the two drew too much amperage.... can't recall if I flipped the breaker, or the Vac shut down the saw and the vac.  My shop has 20 amp 120V circuits.

B4 I try again... what is the limitation of the vac when using in auto start mode?  How much amperage can the tool draw through the Vac?    I assume the electrical cord leaving the vac must carry the amperage load for both the Vac and the tool, so what is its rating?  Maybe this feature is only works for lower amperage tools?  TYIA
 
I have used my TS75 & CT33 many times & never had a problem.
You do need at least a good 20 amp circuit.
 
Chris, mine worked for a short time, till I stressed out the 75 with thick hardwood.

Its possible I was using it on a 15amp circuit, but I doubt it...  hmmmm

 
Give it another go.  If your voltage was low that could have caused it to trip.
 
The USA version of the TS75 is designed to work with the auto start of a CT22 or CT33, so long as the CT is plugged into an actual 20amp circuit at 120v.

To comply with the Uniform Electrical Code such an outlet should be the 20a/120v type, and not a more common 15a/120v grounded outlet connected to a 20a breaker.

In my shop these 20a/120v outlets are home run to the local breaker panels, which in turn are supplied from dedicated transformers reducing the primary 480v/3ph plant power. We did this because the size of the building would otherwise require exceptionally long runs from the main electrical switch gear.

Before I had my shop I had one 20a/120v outlet home run using 10 gauge multi-strand to a dedicated breaker. Using that outlet was successful with either a TS75 or Kapex connected to the auto start on a CT22.

The installed Kapex at my shop is connected to its own dedicated 20a/120v outlet, since normally I want the CT22 running continuously. When I use a TS75 I connect it to the CT22 which is plugged into a dedicated 20a outlet. The few times I have used a TS75 on site it has been connected to a CT22 with no problems, but I have not stressed the TS75.
 
Lots of places I work in no 20A available. The 75 and CT22 will pop a 15A breaker most  of the time if I have the CT set at full speed during start-up. If I have the CT speed dialed down when I pull the 75 trigger and then dial it up, it very rarely pops a 15A breaker. Since I keep my CT close or have a grunt on the job it isn't much of a hassle. I realize for others it may be a pain.
 
Have they changed the load specs for the new CT 26/36, my new 36 has the regular 15 amp plug not the 20 amp plug that's on my CT22?

John
 
I've used the TS75 connected to my CT22 to cut wet Douglas fir 4x material.  This is using a rip blade, single pass and a normal household 15amp circuit.  I didn't cut a foot per second but it wasn't as slow as a foot per minute either.

No problems with the vac cutting out or the circuit breaker tripping.
 
Thanks for the responses....  I figured it required a dedicated 20amp circuit, which is mostly what I have...its possible I had it in a 15amp circuit without knowing it.  The cable coming from the vac to the wall seems a bit thin to carry 20amps?  But like everything Festool, I assume it's sufficient.  With a full 20 amps running, one must be careful using extension cords though..

I too am curious about if any of these specs changed with the new vacs?

I will report back in a few days...
 
I had a similar problem the other day.  No matter where I plugged into the other day I tripped the circuit.  Finally I wen to the panel and discovered I was connecting mostly to arch fault protected circuits that tripped almost for know reason.  I called support to clarifying a course of action regarding  reducing my draw on the circuits.  It was explained to me that the saw will draw up to 17amps (I believe) without respect to the dial setting under load.  If the saw is set for a rpm it will draw what it needs for that rpm setting.  Conversely, the vac will draw only what it is set for.  I believe the lowest setting is aroung three amps.

So if I were trying to run a saw/vac combo I would turn down the vac and leave the saw on five unless it breaks the circuit on start up.  It sounds to me that under normal load that I would be hard to operate under 15amps.
 
Chris, what is an arch fault circuit?  Also, what was the amperage rating of the circuits you were tripping, all 20's?

After writing this post, I also recalled the 1400 tripping the breaker during a 1/2" wide, 3/4" deep, dado cut in hard maple... since that time, I simply abandoned this auto vac on feature.  But it is a nice time saver, hence my interest in diggin deeper.

If the saw can draw up to 17 amps,  then it seems my initial problems made perfect sense on a 20 amp circuit.  This might be a shortcoming of the 75 / vac combo...not the end of the world.

Also, if you lower the speed of the saw, I am not sure it will reduce the amp draw under the same load.  The amount of draw is dependent on the load, not the speed.  So if you subject the blade to the same work load, the total amount of work being performed remains unchanged....this of course assumes the saws control system always maintains the same rpm under load. 

 
While it doesn't sound like the case here, sometimes it is important to see if there is anything else on the circuit drawing power, like a freezer. DAMHIKT  [embarassed]
 
Let's see if I can shed some light on this. I've been hearing lots about the current draw on these saws but no one has reported actual numbers. So I went out and hooked up an amp meter. First, I don't have the TS-75, only a TS-55. Second, I don't have the Festool dust collector, only a Fein model 1.

So with just the TS-55 hooked up to the amp meter, I start the saw with no load and the speed is at 6. It jumps up past 15 amp (max reading of my meter) for about 1 second and then comes down to 7 amp. I lowered the speed to 1 and get the same results except the final reading is 5 amp. The initial surge to 15 amp is probably normal for any induction load such as a motor. The speed setting did make a difference in the current draw. Next I tried under load (rip cut some 8/4 oak) and it was 14-15 amps depending on how heavily loaded the motor was. Speed setting didn't seem to make a difference under load.

Next I tested my Fein DC with nothing plugged into it. In manual mode, it showed 10 amps and drops to 7 amps when I plug up the hose. I thought plugging the hose would create more load but evidently not.

Maybe some others will try this amp meter test and we can get more data. In the mean time I think you would need a 20 amp circuit with nothing else running on it. If it continues to trip the breaker, the breaker may be going bad or you need a different style breaker that withstand a short duration overload.
 
>  If it continues to trip the breaker, the breaker may be going bad or you need a different style breaker that withstand a short duration overload.

                        I was thinking the same .... I recall owning a Delta Dust collector a few years back, and it required a special breaker to prevent trips on start up....its been so long, I forgot its name, or make... I am not in that shop any longer.  Even if the breaker can survive the 75's start-up surge,  there is still the issue of total amperage between the two under heavy load.  Then, the added load (additional current draw) of the losses between the vac and the breaker panel.  In the end, its the current at the breaker that trips the breaker.... the longer the runs, the greater the amp draw at the breaker vs. leaving the Vac.    Hopefully some Festool employees will look into this and give us the official word.

 
Glad I could help. I hope it works well for you. I was so happy with the first one I bought a second for the miter saw. (don't have a festool vac......... yet)

Gerry
 
In addition to solving the auto-vac-on, I also ordered the 50mm hose for the CT22 vac... I would like to improve the dust collection as well.  Once I get it all "just right" I will consider my 75 plunger for sheet breakdowns, a great alternative to a sliding table saw...while all these accessories cost more the saw itself (including the 118" rail, dual Gecko's, clamps, vac switch, 50mm hose, etc.), as I see it, this system will perform equal to a sliding table saw... at least for my needs... as I don't break down 50 sheets a day.... so in the end, a much lower cost, and most importantly, it dissapears when I am not using it, freeing up work space...    :-)   
 
Very few days does my shop break down less than 50 sheets. We own a pressure beam saw as well as a big sliding table saw. Yet we still use Festool TS55 with rails to break down sheets into parts with different angles and bevels.

Sure, often big sliders are used for that purpose. Ours is connected to a computer to control the rip fence, blade exposure, bevel angle and blade speed.

Many shops do most of their break down on a slider, but it can be frustrating because you still push the sheet through the blade. Setting enough rollers to support a full sheet takes time. Our slider has a 14' table so it is possible for use to break down 4x10' sheets.

However, what we find is that this same slider is very efficient and accurate on solid lumber. Most days that keeps it busy. Meanwhile the beam saw accurately produces all the many sheet good parts with only right angles.

Our experience is less than 10% of sheet parts used in custom cabinets have miter or bevel angles. All of us are experienced users of Festools. So while one cabinet maker is using the slider, others of us put sheets on our large work tables, all with 19mm shop plywood sacrificial surfaces and 20mm holes drilled on our CNC nested router on 96mm centers. Sure we make as many cuts as possible on the beam saw, meaning we seldom need to make a trim rip or cross grain cut with a guide rail. We have large protractors to reproduce angles accurately when we set our guide rails. Should we need right angles, we have some very large squares to set the rails. Since the work tables all have locking casters, to avoid back strain, we bring a table under the vacuum lift to move a single sheet from a stack to working position. That same lift also positions sheet goods on the CNC nested router and the beam saw.

When we do use the slider saw for sheet goods we roll a stack down to the saw and assign a second person to help lift and position the sheet. In our experience we save person hours because only one cabinet maker is needed to make the same parts on the work tables using Festools. I have found one person who is experienced and confident with Festools often can make large complicated sheet parts that was as fast as could be done with a crew of two on the state-of-the-art slider. But when making parts from solid wood, nothing is as efficient and accurate as that same slider.

My belief is there are reasons for every tool on the market. It was Festools that allowed me to gain confidence of so many clients that I needed to expand to a large enough shop I can use nested routers, beam saws, slider saws and automatic edge banders. With the nested router we can and do drill millions of 5mm holes for adjustable shelves. When the nested router is in use on other parts we drill those holes with LR32 rails and the OF 1010. Other parts we make with OF 1400 and OF 2200. The bander is marvelous doing its thing with relatively flexible banding. My reputation is built on thicker tongue and grove solid banging, so an OF 1400 normally cuts the groves and the MFK 700 does the trimming. If time is available on a CNC router, then we always can cut the groves on it. With our experience we can cut them as fast with a guide rail and OF 1400. Every tool has a reason for being.

JSands said:
In addition to solving the auto-vac-on, I also ordered the 50mm hose for the CT22 vac... I would like to improve the dust collection as well.   Once I get it all "just right" I will consider my 75 plunger for sheet breakdowns, a great alternative to a sliding table saw...while all these accessories cost more the saw itself (including the 118" rail, dual Gecko's, clamps, vac switch, 50mm hose, etc.), as I see it, this system will perform equal to a sliding table saw... at least for my needs... as I don't break down 50 sheets a day.... so in the end, a much lower cost, and most importantly, it dissapears when I am not using it, freeing up work space...    :-)    
 
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