Veritas Parf Dogs from Lee Valley - The Video

[NYC Tiny Shop]

I finally decided to get some mft dogs. Looked at all the different vendors and they all look very nice so it was a tough choice but I decided to try the Parf's.

While I understand making the 'dog' diameter a tiny bit less than 20mm is a necessity I had expected them to have a better fit, aka less horizontal movement when fully inserted. I tried unused holes in my mft3 just in case the most used ones had some wear from the clamps though the slop seems the same.

While it is some what acceptable it will affect the precision if one uses the dogs for setting up the cutting rail.

I'm curious to know how much 'slop' you guys experience with the 'dogs' from the different vendors including Parf ?

I have all three species: Parf, Qwas, Bench...there is no stop. Love them all.

 

[jonny round boy]

Just read this & remembered I've been meaning to order some for ages, plus I need some other stuff from Axminster anyway...

...then I find out Axminster are out of stock AGAIN! [mad]

 

[Stone Message]

I finally decided to get some mft dogs. Looked at all the different vendors and they all look very nice so it was a tough choice but I decided to try the Parf's.

While I understand making the 'dog' diameter a tiny bit less than 20mm is a necessity I had expected them to have a better fit, aka less horizontal movement when fully inserted. I tried unused holes in my mft3 just in case the most used ones had some wear from the clamps though the slop seems the same.

While it is some what acceptable it will affect the precision if one uses the dogs for setting up the cutting rail.

I'm curious to know how much 'slop' you guys experience with the 'dogs' from the different vendors including Parf ?

I have read on other threads that the hole size on some MFTs may vary. I think that it is related to older stock and it may be just the NA market. I know that when Lee Valley were finalising the spec they took a lot of care over the diameter of the Parfs to ensure the best fit.

My advice to anyone who has any movement at all is to secure the Parf Dogs from below with either a star knob or one of the knobs from a Festool clamp. I always secure the Parf Dogs this way as it means that it will take a sideways force with no problem at all.

Peter

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I also felt that there was unexpected movement in my Parf dogs when fitted to my new MFT table.

I did ask Peter about this at the time, and he suggested using the clamping knobs. Since then, I have been clamping the Parf's and I've had no issues of inaccuracy.

Tim.

 

[mwildt]

Agree one can fastening them from underneath, but that defeats the purpose of a repeated setup of the cutting rail. For that the Parfs just do not 'cut it' with the MFT3 I have.

The slop definitely is there and it is not consistent. I measured the diameters (4 small and 2 large) and it ranges from 19.87/19.88 to 19.90. Yeah, not a lot but it actually translates to quite a bit of slop.

Peter, do you happen to know what the tolerances are on these puppies ?

 

[RONWEN]

Agree one can fastening them from underneath, but that defeats the purpose of a repeated setup of the cutting rail. For that the Parfs just do not 'cut it' with the MFT3 I have.

The slop definitely is there and it is not consistent. I measured the diameters (4 small and 2 large) and it ranges from 19.87/19.88 to 19.90. Yeah, not a lot but it actually translates to quite a bit of slop.

Peter, do you happen to know what the tolerances are on these puppies ?

That range is .03 mm or .0012"  [blink]  Not much of a practical difference that would affect squareness over the distance of a typical MFT table.

 

[Stone Message]

Agree one can fastening them from underneath, but that defeats the purpose of a repeated setup of the cutting rail. For that the Parfs just do not 'cut it' with the MFT3 I have.

The slop definitely is there and it is not consistent. I measured the diameters (4 small and 2 large) and it ranges from 19.87/19.88 to 19.90. Yeah, not a lot but it actually translates to quite a bit of slop.

Peter, do you happen to know what the tolerances are on these puppies ?

I understand that some people might want to be 'in and out quickly' and not fasten the Parf Dogs from below but on some tables, certainly yours, there may be too much slop and the star knobs should be used. If the diameter goes over about 19.6 mm then they get too tight and that is then a disaster.

I do not have the information about the actual tolerances used by Lee Valley but I know that they will see this thread from time to time and respond.

If you are cutting a piece about a foot across (300mm) the slop range of +/- 0.03 mm, as quoted above, represents a maximum (worst case - ie 0.06 mm out) angle of 0.01 of a degree assuming that both ends are out by 0.03 in opposite directions. I do not own a square that is accurate to that tolerance.

Take a look at the tolerance quoted here for carpenters' squares:

http://www.toolman.co.uk/acatalog/squares.html

Peter

 

[dicktill]

I finally decided to get some mft dogs. Looked at all the different vendors and they all look very nice so it was a tough choice but I decided to try the Parf's.

While I understand making the 'dog' diameter a tiny bit less than 20mm is a necessity I had expected them to have a better fit, aka less horizontal movement when fully inserted. I tried unused holes in my mft3 just in case the most used ones had some wear from the clamps though the slop seems the same.

While it is some what acceptable it will affect the precision if one uses the dogs for setting up the cutting rail.

I'm curious to know how much 'slop' you guys experience with the 'dogs' from the different vendors including Parf ?

Agree one can fastening them from underneath, but that defeats the purpose of a repeated setup of the cutting rail. For that the Parfs just do not 'cut it' with the MFT3 I have.

The slop definitely is there and it is not consistent. I measured the diameters (4 small and 2 large) and it ranges from 19.87/19.88 to 19.90. Yeah, not a lot but it actually translates to quite a bit of slop.

Peter, do you happen to know what the tolerances are on these puppies ?

Hi mwildt,

There was a HUGH uproar about the diameters/slop in the Lee Valley/Veritas Clamping Kit dogs when put into MFT/3 holes last April. Alas, I'm the guy that started that uproar (http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-product-veritas-planing-stops-for-your-mft/msg253910/#msg253910) in reply #115. Much discussion ensued, and you can read all of it (including my dumb measuring and math errors), or just replies #125, 128, 130, 151, 162, 164, 167, & 171, or just skip all that and go the heart of the research done by Rob Lee/Lee Valley at reply #171 ( http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-product-veritas-planing-stops-for-your-mft/msg255073/#msg255073). Rob and his fine folks at Lee Valley did a HUGE amount of work, and showed that these smaller diameters caused pretty insignificant errors in your woodworking. I'm happy with them and also the Parf dogs I purchased later (and many, many other items [thousands of dollars] I've purchased from Lee Valley).

So I think we're: [dead horse]

Regards, Dick

 

[rljatl]

I think it would help to accommodate the slight variance in the size of holes if the Parf Dogs had a bevel where the shaft meets the underside of the top of the dog.  Qwas dogs have this bevel.

 

[jonny round boy]

If there's noticeable slop in the dogs, just put a turn or two of sellotape round. That should fix it, and be relatively permanent.

I'd rather have the dogs too loose & be able to tweak them with tape, than have them too tight to get in the hole... [eek]

 

[u1666]

Do any Aussies know the Carbatec stock number for these?  They dont!  [mad]

 

[Stephen B]

Do any Aussies know the Carbatec stock number for these?  They dont!  [mad]

[size=12pt]
Welcome to the FOG U1666    [smile]

There is some dissatisfaction regarding Carbatec by fellow Aussie FOG members. On this recent thread you will also see specific discussion regarding ParfDogs and Carbatec.  [eek]

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/one-for-the-aussies/

 

[u1666]

Thanks Untidy...

Service (?) is not surprising from Carbatec.

Unfortunately used to it living on a little  island under a big island!  [big grin]