Very disappointed

[Christian93117]

By no means was my post intended to be arrogant or condescending.

Here is the point I wanted to make:  Some posts give some customers the impression, that we have a lot of problems with our products, and therefore they don't buy our products. The fact that we are actively promoting the forum on our website and in every newsletter should be an indicator that we are not afraid of talking openly about tool problems, because there aren't many.

We don't see our participation as doing anybody a favor. We see it as customer service. And we enjoy it. There is no question we are benefiting from this forum.

And we never talk down to any of our customers. If anybody got that impression, I apologize.

Christian Oltzscher

 

[Dan Clark]

A %100 agree with MCASE.I read a lot of threads here...to pay that high price for tool with a same problem like cheap tool????I don't understand.Please,tell me what Festool can do that another tool can't do?I really  want to buy a Kapex,BUT I read all this posts and its stop me to buying a tool from this company!Why should I pay a twice,even more when I can easy buy less expansive tool with a same features?(I'm talking about miter saw)

CD,

I find it interesting that you complained about the Kapex and swore that you would not buy one in this thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/what-tool-is-more-heavy-duty-bosch-or-festool/msg95831/#msg95831.  And then your very next post is a response NINE MONTH OLD thread to continue your diatribe against the Kapex! This is irrational.  Any rational person, after having decided that a product was not for them, would get on with their life.

Instead you bring up the subject again.  This looks like an obvious attempt attempt to sway other peoples' decisions.   So what is your motivation?  It isn't your money.  Why do you care?  Do you think you are smarter than all of the dummies (like me) who have purchased Festool tools and feel that it is your duty to educate us?

Regarding your language skills, there are many people on all forums who are not native English speakers.  No one cares.   It is their knowledge, skills, and humanity that we appreciate.  They are welcomed with open arms.    No, it's not your language skills.   It's the content of your message.

Life is simple.  It's your money.  Buy what you want.  Go where you feel comfortable.   To be blunt, it's obvious that you are not comfortable with Festool and with this group.   Go buy Dewalt or some other tool, and join a group that shares your tastes.  All of us will be happier.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[JohnDistai]

By no means was my post intended to be arrogant or condescending.

Here is the point I wanted to make:  Some posts give some customers the impression, that we have a lot of problems with our products, and therefore they don't buy our products. The fact that we are actively promoting the forum on our website and in every newsletter should be an indicator that we are not afraid of talking openly about tool problems, because there aren't many.

[JD] I agree that the number of complainers may seem to be significant, but this sample has a reporting bias problem.  People with problems are more likely to complain than satisfied customers singing praises.  Unfortunately, we don't always recognize this bias and actively think about it when we read these reports.

[JD] And this is what companies are learning about social media.  It can help you, or bite you.  And yes, a company that openly allows criticism and responds to it as opposed to hiding or quashing it will fare better in the court of public opinion.

We don't see our participation as doing anybody a favor. We see it as customer service. And we enjoy it. There is no question we are benefiting from this forum.

[JD] Thank you for acknowledging this.

And we never talk down to any of our customers. If anybody got that impression, I apologize.

[JD] And thank you for this, too.

Christian Oltzscher

 

[JohnDistai]

John,

As you said, there are many places on the internet.

Peter

Need me to post some links?

Yes

 

[Inner10]

www.talkfestool.com

 

[Frank Pellow]

Life is simple.  It's your money.  Buy what you want.  Go where you feel comfortable.   To be blunt, it's obvious that you are not comfortable with Festool and with this group.   Go buy Dewalt or some other tool, and join a group that shares your tastes.  All of us will be happier.

Regards,

Dan.

Well said Dan. 

John, I wish you would follow his advice.  Most of your comments and observations here really are quite annoying.  I know that you are being annoying on purpose and up until know I have refrained from responding to your baiting but enough is enough.

 

[JohnDistai]

Life is simple.  It's your money.  Buy what you want.  Go where you feel comfortable.   To be blunt, it's obvious that you are not comfortable with Festool and with this group.   Go buy Dewalt or some other tool, and join a group that shares your tastes.  All of us will be happier.

Regards,

Dan.

Well said Dan. 

John, I wish you would follow his advice.  Most of your comments and observations here really are quite annoying.  I know that you are being annoying on purpose and up until know I have refrained from responding to your baiting but enough is enough.

Wow!  This thread is a couple of years old, and I didn't even complain in it!  Frank, perhaps you should read a little further up the chain to see that the advice wasn't even directed at me.  I didn't bait anyone.

 

[Dan Clark]

...
Please stop telling us that you are doing all of us some big favor by having a forum and responding every now and then.  It is arrogant and condescending.  
...
I believe this forum started as an independent forum.  Since a forum such as this was or would have started anyhow, it was in Festool's best interest to take part and eventually exhibit some control over it.

Again, please stop with the arrogant and condescending statements regarding "doing us a favor" regarding this forum.  We are doing you "a favor" by participating and buying your tools.  Please don't ever forget that.  Unless Festool has been nationalized by Germany or some other country, there would be no Festool without customers.  So please stop talking down to us.

And to the readers of this forum, I hope that the "hero worship" that is displayed whenever a Festool employee responds will stop.  It is sad to see people almost grovel when a Festool employee responds.  Almost like we are subjects in the king's court.

Now let the flames begin!

John,

It's rather amazing what you read into Christian's comments.   Have you ever met him in person?   I have.  He's one of the nicer guys I've met.  And one of the calmest.   In the past three years, I've never read or heard anything that remotely could be considered arrogant or condescending.

Regarding what you perceive as hero worship, we thank the Festool employees not for their posts, but for the extra effort that they put into it.   If you can't see that, that's your problem.

Regarding the forum, it's very safe to say that I know more about this forum than you'll ever know.  With that background, it's also safe to say that Festool rescued FOG.    And rather than turn it into a dedicated Festool promo machine, they've done a very nice job of balancing free speech with maintaining order.   If anything, they have bent over backwards to allow and encourage open user discussion - even discussion which is negative towards Festool.  They work hard at making FOG a comfortable and safe place to share information.

I've been to several other company-run forums.   Many don't allow any dissension.   I joined an AT&T Mobile forum, and complained about the customer service and the inability to upgrade my WinMobile phone.   They locked me out of the forum.  When I contacted them about it, the said that I was "disruptive".   My view of other company-run forums is "less than optimal".

Festool and their employees add value to FOG, but the vast majority of value (like any forum) comes from the members.  Are you adding value to FOG or subtracting it?  Like I told CD...   If you don't like Festool or FOG, buy other tools and find another forum where you're comfortable.   We'll all be happier.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Dan Clark]

www.talkfestool.com

Inner,

talkFestool is NOT one of the "other" places.  Like FOG, we welcome honest dissension and differences of opinion.  Many FOG members are also talkFestool members.  Both forums share the same enthusiasm for good quality tools.  And our members, like FOG members are protective of our forum.   

To be blunt, talkFestool is NOT a forum for Festool or FOG bashing.  We try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if someone acts like a troll, they're gone.

Dan.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Life is simple.  It's your money.  Buy what you want.  Go where you feel comfortable.   To be blunt, it's obvious that you are not comfortable with Festool and with this group.   Go buy Dewalt or some other tool, and join a group that shares your tastes.  All of us will be happier.

Regards,

Dan.

Well said Dan. 

John, I wish you would follow his advice.  Most of your comments and observations here really are quite annoying.  I know that you are being annoying on purpose and up until know I have refrained from responding to your baiting but enough is enough.

Wow!  This thread is a couple of years old, and I didn't even complain in it!  Frank, perhaps you should read a little further up the chain to see that the advice wasn't even directed at me.  I didn't bait anyone.

I'm talking about your general attitude in the majority of your posts on this forum and your lack of constructive criticism.  And, you did bait Festool as well as the members of this forum in this thread.  And, that's the last that you are going to hear from me on the subject because I would just be reacting to your baiting some more (and I am certain that this is what you want).

 

[JohnDistai]

It's rather amazing what you read into Christian's comments.   Have you ever met him in person?   I have.  He's one of the nicer guys I've met.  And one of the calmest.   In the past three years, I've never read or heard anything that remotely could be considered arrogant or condescending.
[JD] Nope, never met him in person.  It's great that he's a great guy.  It was also big of him to provide an apology for the perception of being arrogant and admitting that Festool is benefiting from this.

Regarding what you perceive as hero worship, we thank the Festool employees not for their posts, but for the extra effort that they put into it.   If you can't see that, that's your problem.
[JD]  I guess so.

Regarding the forum, it's very safe to say that I know more about this forum than you'll ever know.

[JD] Good for you.  You must feel very proud to know so much about such an important subject.

With that background, it's also safe to say that Festool rescued FOG.    And rather than turn it into a dedicated Festool promo machine, they've done a very nice job of balancing free speech with maintaining order.   If anything, they have bent over backwards to allow and encourage open user discussion - even discussion which is negative towards Festool.  They work hard at making FOG a comfortable and safe place to share information.

I've been to several other company-run forums.   Many don't allow any dissension.   I joined an AT&T Mobile forum, and complained about the customer service and the inability to upgrade my WinMobile phone.   They locked me out of the forum.  When I contacted them about it, the said that I was "disruptive".   My view of other company-run forums is "less than optimal".

[JD] This is an example of what I was responding to earlier.  Companies can have different methods for responding to feedback.  There are people studying the effects of how company response to social media affects brand image.  Researchers are finding that allowing negative responses and ratings and not controlling them speaks BETTER for the company than censoring or sweeping issues under the rug.  It takes a big company to do this.  The two examples you provided are of two companies doing it different ways, resulting in different perceptions.

Festool and their employees add value to FOG, but the vast majority of value (like any forum) comes from the members.  Are you adding value to FOG or subtracting it.  Like I told CD...   If you don't like Festool or FOG, buy other tools and find another forum where you're comfortable.   We'll all be happier.

[JD]  I am a social scientist commenting on what I see here.  In some cases I'm being sarcastic and poking fun, and in others I'm adding critical thought instead of blindly waving any brand festooned flag. I find it interesting that many don't view the contents of my posts with an open mind, but instead look at them as attacks or baiting.  It is all very interesting.

Regards,

Dan.
[/quote]

 

[JohnDistai]

[/quote]
I'm talking about your general attitude in the majority of your posts on this forum and your lack of constructive criticism.  And, you did bait Festool as well as the members of this forum in this thread.  And, that's the last that you are going to hear from me on the subject because I would just be reacting to your baiting some more (and I am certain that this is what you want).
[/quote]

[JD] I find it interesting that if I disagree with someone and think their response seems arrogant and point it out it is considered "baiting".  If you are referring to my comment "Let the flames begin!", it wasn't intended as a bait.  I knew what was coming, and I sarcastically commented on it before it started.  If I am missing where I "baited" someone, please point it out to me.

 

[sw1211]

[JD]  I am a social scientist commenting on what I see here.  In some cases I'm being sarcastic and poking fun, and in others I'm adding critical thought instead of blindly waving any brand festooned flag. I find it interesting that many don't view the contents of my posts with an open mind, but instead look at them as attacks or baiting.  It is all very interesting.

Regards,

It's just that repeating your points OVER AND OVER, like you're doing us some great service has become boorish at best.

 

[JohnDistai]

www.talkfestool.com

Inner,

talkFestool is NOT one of the "other" places.   Like FOG, we welcome honest dissension and differences of opinion.  Many FOG members are also talkFestool members.  Both forums share the same enthusiasm for good quality tools.   And our members, like FOG members are protective of our forum.   

To be blunt, talkFestool is NOT a forum for Festool or FOG bashing.  We try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if someone acts like a troll, they're gone.

Dan.

[JD] Inner - Are you saying that talkFestool needs some stimulation and critical thought as well? 
[JD] Dan - Have I been "pre-banned" from talkFestool?

 

[Dan Clark]

www.talkfestool.com

Inner,

talkFestool is NOT one of the "other" places.   Like FOG, we welcome honest dissension and differences of opinion.  Many FOG members are also talkFestool members.  Both forums share the same enthusiasm for good quality tools.   And our members, like FOG members are protective of our forum.   

To be blunt, talkFestool is NOT a forum for Festool or FOG bashing.  We try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if someone acts like a troll, they're gone.

Dan.

[JD] Inner - Are you saying that talkFestool needs some stimulation and critical thought as well? 
[JD] Dan - Have I been "pre-banned" from talkFestool?

Have you trolled?

 

[Inner10]

[JD] Inner - Are you saying that talkFestool needs some stimulation and critical thought as well? 

...I was just pointing out another festool forum...nothing more nothing less....

 

[JohnDistai]

Okay, since it is apparent that the FOG tide has turned against me.  I can only offer this:

"Festool's good"
"Other tools bad"
"Festool is always right"
"I will work harder to love the forum"

 

[JohnDistai]

Have you trolled?
[/quote]

Are you the moderator?

 

[Dan Clark]

...
[JD]  I am a social scientist commenting on what I see here.  In some cases I'm being sarcastic and poking fun, and in others I'm adding critical thought instead of blindly waving any brand festooned flag. I find it interesting that many don't view the contents of my posts with an open mind, but instead look at them as attacks or baiting.  It is all very interesting.

John,

If you are "social scientist", then you know the impact of stirring the pot.   And you should know the impact of words, especially "hot words" - words whose sole purpose is to evoke an emotional response.   Like Frank, I perused your last dozen or so posts in other threads.   I found most of your comments "pithy", perhaps even "crisp".   That's just peachy keen, but as a "social scientist", you should be aware that your "sarcasm and poking fun" will be ill-received in the wrong venue.   When people want information and help, "sarcasm and poking fun" is considered very rude.  I'm surprised that you don't understand this, considering that you're a "social scientist".  You don't want to be considered rude, do you?

In any case, I won't be responding to you any further.  While I find this conversation just super-duper scintillating, I need to toddle off to beddie-bye and get my beauty rest.   And I can't chat tomorrow either because I'll be saving the world for the evils of non-Festool tools.

Have an ever-so-nice evening,

Dan.

 

[Bob Marino]

Just look at your earlier statement "Now let the flames begin". That's not lookin' for a fight? Against my better judgement I will post a response, and it will just be this one response, that's for sure, no matter what  your reply happens to be. If anyone has written arrogant and condescending statements and just personifies those qualities - it's you.  I don't think  anyone that I can recall has complained so much, yet added so little.  Stop fashioning yourself as a revolutionary, standing on the ramparts with a broken bourbon bottle in your hand fighting the great battle against whomever/whatever. I have been around many ww forums for over 10 years and there were/are always a handful, who prefer stirring the pot, for little more reason than they enjoy stirring the pot; or maybe they want to see how far they can push the button of just plain decency, enjoying the "attention" - even if it is negative attention. Children would rather be good than bad,  but rather be bad than be ignored.
Yep, you are intelligent, no doubt, but say things that people with lesser intelligence have the good sense  (and decency) not to say.

Bob