very high cool factor..........

Per Swenson said:
This is about sending one of the three to Demo the Joint tech pro in Portland

then reporting back to the rest of us.

P.
Click to expand...

Umm - it's Jointmaker Pro, not Joint tech, but we know what you meant.  Smile.

Which Portland, Oregon or Maine?

I voted!  Edit:  Oops, too late.
 
Steve-CO said:
Michael Kellough said:
Looks like it's up to me to concede. Go Monte!!
Click to expand...

If only Clinton would be so gracious... ;D  oops, political reference, sorry.....
Click to expand...

Just be clear, I sent a PM to Matthew affirming that the contest is over from my point of view. I hope Per and John are not disappointed in my throwing in the towel this early but I'm convinced that Monte has what it takes to wring the best from the Jointmaker Pro and give us a great report.

Frankly I don't think there was much doubt even in the beginning that Monte would be very good for this.
I think it was the jumping up and down saying "me, me" that pushed people over to my side in reaction.
I'm well aware I won the opportunity to concede because none of the guys I nominated wanted to do it.  ;)
 
Eli said:
Let Monte go but send Michael a JM Pro to review at home? ;D
Click to expand...

Actually this is a very good idea. Monte going to Portland to review the machine on the manufacturer's turf, and Michael being sent a prototype (to be returned) to review on his own. There would be little extra cost to the company, and the resulting information to the FOG would be worth more than twice as much in increased objectivity.

At first, I was leaning towards voting for Michael to head to Portland. I've been reading his posts for a while, and my impression is that he has broad technical knowledge, has worked on many complicated projects that involve small pieces, and is very articulate in explaining his thoughts. A perfect resume for this assignment.

Then I saw more of what Monte is involved in, and his skill level, and decided the two guys may be on a par in many ways. At that point what tipped me towards Monte was that he started this whole thing in the first place, and I feel it's only fair to give him the edge for that.

John
 
To all the members of FOG, Matthew, Michael and of course John Economaki thank you.

After all the anxiety of getting the posting pictures thing down, and revealing about what I do,

quicker than I was planning ........I'm actually feeling very humbled.

In the coming days I'm planning on outlining the methodology of my approach to

reviewing the Jointmaster Pro,  I will be starting a new thread titled.....

"The Art & Science of Cutting Wood / The Jointmaster Pro "

to which I  welcome everyone to participate in generating ideas.

thank you,

Monte

 
monte said:
After all the anxiety of getting the posting pictures thing down, and revealing about what I do,

quicker than I was planning ........I'm actually feeling very humbled.
Click to expand...

I hope you continue revealing what you do. And I hope all those other guys who are holding back out of reluctance to "show off" (or whatever) just go ahead and share what they do. I hope we don't have to wait for another once a decade tool introduction to shake some more guys out of the shadows.

 
Matthew,

I just went to start the new thread and I'm looking at my two choices between,

All Tools & Accessories....... & ........General Chat & Random Ideas.

It seems as even though "All Tools" lists as only Festool related, to quote you.......

"Even though his product is not specifically related to Festool, I sensed a kind of connection.
Like most of us here in this forum, I've always believed that the Festool system represents a way of
working more than just a set of tools, a challenge to some basic assumptions.  I sensed the same
attitude from John and the Jointmaker Pro.  I'm betting it's no coincidence that the Jointmaker Pro
has struck a chord with this forum."

So, on that note I sensed it fit more to "All Tools", but please move it to another location
if you think otherwise.

Monte

 
>>>  I think it was the jumping up and down saying "me, me" that pushed people over to my side in reaction.

I have to admit that whole episode played out in public was sad.

Your humbleness aside Michael, I suspect many people voted for you because of your woodworking background and strong writing ability - both of which are needed to communicate effectively.  The communications part shouldn't be minimized. It's unusual when both craft and communication skills are in concert within one. No doubt, for example, why art/photography critics are usually not artists/photographers - essential writing and communication skills are lacking.    After a few  years of (mostly) reading threads here, in addition to Michael, there are just a few others whose views and judgement I'd trust without reservation (Jerry's another that comes to mind).  Very important before opening my wallet and spending a kilo-buck on a new and potentially revolutionary tool.

Just some thoughts...
 
I have not met a guy here I would not trust, so we differ on that perspective.

What episode in public are your are referring to? I liked the thread.

Nickao

oops, except Festeringtool, he was kind of hard to believe at times.
 
Brad,

Sorry you feel that way, about your perception........

call it the excitement of the moment and having to pour out a lot of information in

a very short time.  I do hope I live up to the expectations as to .......

conveying my thoughts about the Jointmaster Pro from an artist/ craftsman point of view.

all the best,

Monte
 
Brad Evans said:
>>>   I think it was the jumping up and down saying "me, me" that pushed people over to my side in reaction.

I have to admit that whole episode played out in public was sad.

Your humbleness aside Michael, I suspect many people voted for you because of your woodworking background and strong writing ability - both of which are needed to communicate effectively.  The communications part shouldn't be minimized. It's unusual when both craft and communication skills are in concert within one. No doubt, for example, why art/photography critics are usually not artists/photographers - essential writing and communication skills are lacking.    After a few  years of (mostly) reading threads here, in addition to Michael, there are just a few others whose views and judgement I'd trust without reservation (Jerry's another that comes to mind).   Very important before opening my wallet and spending a kilo-buck on a new and potentially revolutionary tool.

Just some thoughts...
Click to expand...

Brad, I usually don't respond to compliments for tips I pass on (from wherever I got them?) but this is a very high compliment and I'm awed. Thank you!
 
I'm now confused as to which thread we should address questions for Monte to consider for his up-coming trip... so please move if needed.

Monte:  If you can, try out some small (1/4" x 1/2" or 3/4"ish ) size mouldings. Brittle, prefinished cabinet type stuff would be perfect.  As a cabinet installer, I cut miles of that stuff, and even with backers etc.  I always wince and close my eyes when cutting really small pieces on the big saws.  

Thanks, Dan
 
Everyone,
This was all rather unexpected, and somewhat last-minute, but it came together nicely.  We got to have an interesting experience for the group, and we also got to learn more about Michael Kellough's great work.  I look forward to seeing more of Michael's projects in the "Projects" section in the future.

Monte, you can post your discussion of the review wherever you want.  If it needs to be moved, we can worry about that later.  For now, let's move ahead with the plans to get you going.

Brad Evans said:
I have to admit that whole episode played out in public was sad.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what was sad about this, Brad.  From my perspective, this all worked really nicely.  As I said, the forum got a great offer from Bridge City, we learned about an interesting new tool, had a fun discussion about who would be best for the trip, got to see more of Michael's work, and we can look forward to even more interesting posts from  Monte after he's done the review.

If it's OK with Per, I'm going to ask that we remove the poll from this discussion and combine it with the "very high cool factor.........." discussion.

Matthew

 
Congratulations Monte!

I have never seen a passel of woodworkers or anybody online for that matter,

conduct themselves in such a diplomatic and democratic manner.

The entire membership should be congratulated.

Really.

Per
 
Per Swenson said:
Congratulations Monte!

I have never seen a passel of woodworkers or anybody online for that matter,

conduct themselves in such a diplomatic and democratic manner.

The entire membership should be congratulated.

Really.

Per
Click to expand...

I agree!!  Congratulations to Monte, and the forum.
Now, the entire membership can tell Monte what they want him to test when he goes to Bridge City.
Matt
 
FOG members;

Wow! You folks are thorough. We are really looking forward to meeting Monte.

Let's put this experience in perspective. This is a saw machine, and it makes straight cuts within the capacity of the tool. The purpose of the trip (I hope) is to have an independent, non-affiliated woodworker validate that everything we did in the video is replicable with very little training in one fun-filled afternoon.  Cutting wood on the Jointmaker Pro is not the issue, plenty of people have seen this and the results are, and Monte will have the opportunity to validate, unbelievable for a hand saw. Any cut you can make with a Japanese style saw we can replicate much more accurately--which opens up new ways to work without electricity, noise and very little dust.

My main objective for the visit is to have a real woodworker recognize that with slotted linear tables, there are more opportunities for jigs, fixtures and ideas that are not possible without power, and are safe. This is what excites me--the ability to be a woodworker in a back bedroom if required, or finding a tool that expands one's outlook...

For example, somebody challenged me by asking if I could cut a bridle joint in a Starbuck's wooden stirrer. They are .050" thick. Using double stick tape and a two backer boards, I slotted it with a .020" kerf.  Now, this is a test, and not likely high on anybody's list of cutting needs. But it did have a profound effect at how I viewed my own woodworking experiences and I became fascinated with some ideas that use these sticks that are really outside of the box--and that is all I am going to say about that at the moment.... What is important is this would have NEVER happened if I did not have this experience. And frankly, I still can't believe that we can cut compound miters in hardwood or softwood, accurately with a handsaw. Never imagined it possible. So for me, my mind is racing, and I hope your is as well and spawns some really creative questions for Monte.

The saw has applications that we have yet to imagine and that is what I hope is revealed when we start making cuts and that is how I hope your fact finding questions for Monte are tailored. We fully expect durability, engineering and other tangible questions to be addressed when Monte puts pen to paper--with a cost of $995 there is a reason...

Lastly, I want to thank all of you for embracing Bridge City in a positive light. As mentioned earlier, either Michael or myself will do our best to answer any of your questions regarding the Jointmaker Pro. This is really a great oasis of information, I wish all forums were this civil.

Regards,

John Economaki
President
Bridge City Tool Works
 
John,

Thanks for getting some of the members to show their work.

Actually, thanks for everything.

And to show you guys why you made the right choice,

I thought a Bridle Joint was were you found something like this.

[attachimg=#]

Just a little anticlimactic comic relief.

Per
 
JJEconomaki said:
FOG members;

Wow! You folks are thorough. We are really looking forward to meeting Monte.

Let's put this experience in perspective. This is a saw machine, and it makes straight cuts within the capacity of the tool. The purpose of the trip (I hope) is to have an independent, non-affiliated woodworker validate that everything we did in the video is replicable with very little training in one fun-filled afternoon.  Cutting wood on the Jointmaker Pro is not the issue, plenty of people have seen this and the results are, and Monte will have the opportunity to validate, unbelievable for a hand saw. Any cut you can make with a Japanese style saw we can replicate much more accurately--which opens up new ways to work without electricity, noise and very little dust.

My main objective for the visit is to have a real woodworker recognize that with slotted linear tables, there are more opportunities for jigs, fixtures and ideas that are not possible without power, and are safe. This is what excites me--the ability to be a woodworker in a back bedroom if required, or finding a tool that expands one's outlook...

For example, somebody challenged me by asking if I could cut a bridle joint in a Starbuck's wooden stirrer. They are .050" thick. Using double stick tape and a two backer boards, I slotted it with a .020" kerf.  Now, this is a test, and not likely high on anybody's list of cutting needs. But it did have a profound effect at how I viewed my own woodworking experiences and I became fascinated with some ideas that use these sticks that are really outside of the box--and that is all I am going to say about that at the moment.... What is important is this would have NEVER happened if I did not have this experience. And frankly, I still can't believe that we can cut compound miters in hardwood or softwood, accurately with a handsaw. Never imagined it possible. So for me, my mind is racing, and I hope your is as well and spawns some really creative questions for Monte.

The saw has applications that we have yet to imagine and that is what I hope is revealed when we start making cuts and that is how I hope your fact finding questions for Monte are tailored. We fully expect durability, engineering and other tangible questions to be addressed when Monte puts pen to paper--with a cost of $995 there is a reason...

Lastly, I want to thank all of you for embracing Bridge City in a positive light. As mentioned earlier, either Michael or myself will do our best to answer any of your questions regarding the Jointmaker Pro. This is really a great oasis of information, I wish all forums were this civil.

Regards,

John Economaki
President
Bridge City Tool Works
Click to expand...

Thanks again for providing this opportunity John. It's exciting to know that in little more than a week we'll have someone from own group to pester with questions about your new machine.

Also, thanks for the reminder that we can pester you and Michael in the meantime!

First I want to mention that the video as seen on utube leaves a lot to be desired. The poor quality (haziness and choppy frame rate) combined with the really fantastic nature of the opperations makes it hard to understand what is really happening. An experienced WW friend said he had to watch it three times to convince himself what he thought was happening actually was. I hope you can find a way to improve the online video quality.

I just watched again and this time, for the first time, realized that it often takes a few passes before you manage to get the saw all the way through the wood. I imagine you just push untill it stops, then back up and push again?

As you make clear in your post this machine uses a fine saw blade that even when used by hand will produce very good to outstanding cuts, so it should go without saying that a fine saw as fixtured in the Jointmaker will produce results that are outstanding to perfect. Instead of focusing on how well different species and sizes of wood will be cut we should put our attention on the moving parts; the sliding tables and the saw clamp/trunnion.

Since it appears that the tables slide independently this provides an opportunity to set each table to produce a different angle doesn't it? Or, is the force required to push a piece of wood into the blade until it stops so high that it needs to be distributed across both tables simultaneously? Is there a need or means to lock both tables together. How securely are the tables attached to the rails? Is there any lateral play? Do they lift off?

With independent tables and movable workholding fences on the tables, what is the procedure for setting the fence or fences square to the blade? Do you reference back to the fence from the blade itself or is some part of the table itself suitable?

In the video the user is shown making apparently arbitrary adjustments to the two tables and fences and then cutting pins(?) for dovetails. What is the procedure for setting the fences to an angle that must match the angle the saw is set to in another operation? Have you envisioned or developed jigs to facilitate these settings?

How robust is the saw holding system? How reliable is the means of keeping the plane of the saw parallel to the sliding table rails? How is this adjusted?

That's all for now, thanks again!
 
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