What can Festool do to regain brand loyalty

[Birdhunter]

Yes, I could believe a company would budget 5% pay raise every year. I think that would be very reasonable. High performers get more and poor performers get less.

 

[antss]

I'm not talking theoretical birdhunter, I'm talking actuals.

And during the Great Recession FT prices were still going up , yet most people's pay was not.

It just a money grab, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that, Festool is a business. And they're out to make a profit.  All I'm saying is - call a spade a spade.

 

[escan]

An electronic dance music musician, who had meteoric rise and became known mainstream from a fairly fringe, yet devout, fan-base explained his marketing genius as "creating a world" for his fans. He allowed direct video access to his music creation, great mascot, extremely fan interactive, spoke with them on-line, shared his life and it became part of their life. You could be immersed in that world.

Asking to regain loyalty sounds like we're the ones stuck in that Festool world, hoping to recast the vision that started it. Its a testament to the strength of being part of perceived greatness and the horror and aftermath of finding out it was something other. "Tools are a means to end", users, sell and buy a better option-they move on.

Hopefully the relationships formed here are stronger than any attachments to perceived greatness. This forum has been a great resource over the years and I hope to contribute to that once in a while.

 

[sancho57]

Id like to see the Classified add folder improved. Because with all these people unhappy with their tools, I dont see much being listed on the classified add folder or even craigslist.

List them if yer unhappy, there are a lot of folks like me that are looking for used festools.

 

[semenza]

Festool's price escalation is too consistent to reflect real world inflationary adjustments.  Also, do you think all their assembly "team members" get a 5% pay raise every year ? 

I'm not talking theoretical birdhunter, I'm talking actuals.

Since you are talking actuals .................

      Do you know that they don't?

  For speculation purposes maybe they get  2 - 3% increase every year, and cost of materials and manufacturing cost adds the rest?

It just a money grab, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that, Festool is a business. And they're out to make a profit.  All I'm saying is - call a spade a spade.

    It is not an across the board percentage. The amount of increase varies for each item. Which leads me to believe there is more to it than a straight money grab. Maybe it is maybe it isn't, but stating it as a fact is a  theoretical   not an  actual  on your part.

Seth

 

[semenza]

Hopefully the relationships formed here are stronger than any attachments to perceived greatness. This forum has been a great resource over the years and I hope to contribute to that once in a while.

            [thumbs up]  Yes, this  ^^^^  [thumbs up]

Seth

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Who cares?  Really, why care? 

 

[VW mick]

My  [2cents]

Do they need to

My kapex is fine I fact it's the best saw I've owned

My sanders all great in fact my ro125 my second Festool is my go to sander

All my drills do there respective jobs perfectly I never expected one to do everything

I don't need to mention routers or the domino they speak for themselves

The Ts55 is the industry standard as far as I'm concerned it has been a game changer for 100% of the guys I work with
If you want to rip 75mm Iroko you need different tool

The extractors work perfectly

Centrotec is really good quality if it's too expensive don't buy it.If you want to use other bits put the jacobs chuck in

I honestly don't see the problems we keep seeing posted on what is a Festool owners site

I do buy other brands I've got into makita lately as they have the cordless tools I've needed at the time

This is all based on my personal experience

Mick

 

[Cheese]

I can't complain...I'm very satisfied with all of my Festools except for the never ending Kapex issues and their jigsaws.

Festool needs to come up with a PERMANENT fix for the Kapex.  Problem solved  [big grin]

I sold my Trion & Carvex and purchased a Mafell P1 cc.  Problem solved  [cool]

I will add that I am perplexed about how Festool manages their accessories. MFS = obsoleted,  circular saw metal cutting blades = obsoleted,  spark trap = obsoleted,  OF 1010 edging accessories = obsoleted,  original style 500669 hose connection = obsoleted, and finally Centrotec items = INCOMPLETE selection and some replacement bits are UNAVAILABLE.  [crying]  [mad]

 

[GhostFist]

Festool needs to decide what market it's catering to. Hobbyists or professionals. I also think they should listen to the fog less. No offense intended by that I'm just saying that opinions on here aren't an accurate portrayal of what ever market they're catering to believes

 

[rljatl]

Festool needs to decide what market it's catering to. Hobbyists or professionals. I also think they should listen to the fog less. No offense intended by that I'm just saying that opinions on here aren't an accurate portrayal of what ever market they're catering to believes

How could they listen any less?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[GhostFist]

I think requests for nonsense like radios and incremental and unnecessary upgrades come from (Not exclusively) here. Tool problems of course should be listened to but some of the feature requests aren't always the best

 

[Master Carpenter]

Brand loyalty?  Are we to be expected to buy Festools simply because they are Festools?

If Festool wants me to spend my money on their product, built the best tool. If your going to charge me a premium price, I expect more in return. My local dealer has gone the extra mile for me more than once (thank you Ultimate Tools), but the brand needs to do more. If my tool breaks, I still need to get the job done. Abusing the 30 day return policy shouldn't be necessary.

My list of Festools issues:
My ts55 just stopped one day. Finished one cut, no issue. Next cut, nothing. It's a saw with moderate use. I have a Bosch table saw, soft start circuit, feedback to maintain speed, never had a issue with its electronics in 15 years and it's been abused. Years of daily job site use. The price I pay for Festool, that's inexcusable. Quality is lacking.

I'm the owner of a Ti15. Just doesn't drill. Pull the trigger and it beeps. How does a tool like this make it to market. Festool needs a replacement policy on these. Hand it in, get a brand new drill of my choosing.

On drills, centrotec. A proprietary chuck system. Why? Just why? If your going to have a proprietary chuck, you need to have all the bits I'm going to need available at ALL TIMES. Not when you want. Not only in sets. I live in Canada, we use a lot of Robertson screws, Robertson, not square drive or square head. I need the correct bits. And when one of my drill bits wear out or break, I want to walk into my dealer and buy another, not wait for you to release another full set so I can pay a couple hundred dollars to replace a few dollars in bits.

Sandpaper. It's a consumable. I go through a lot. My time is also money, as soon as the paper performance drops off, it's in the garbage. I might be able to sand with the same piece for a half hour, but I'd be wasting time. It costs too much. You can call it premium all you want, its "sand" on Velcro backing. Drop the price in half. It's not like your giving the sanders away for free and making the money on the paper.

The power cords. Just sell all tools with the heavy cord. End of discussion.

In general, tool accessories pricing. Example. I bought a vac sys recently. Looked into the mounts for the mft. $366 each. I need 2 for both bases. It's a couple pieces of metal with a hinge and a couple thumb screws to hold it on. Over $700. And tax on top. I'll be making my own, thank you.

I'm fully invested in "the system", it's my job. Festool lets me do things I haven't found a way to do with any other brand. But my purchases are getting father and farther apart. I'm returning to other brands. There may yet come a day when I free up some capital and unload the Festools that aren't the core.

 

[live4ever]

Of course any tool company can always make their tools better, more durable, etc. or offer better, more responsive service.  But truthfully, the silence on the Kapex issue to me represents the biggest red flag.  There’s a real problem and Festool’s [apparently] choosing to pretend like it doesn’t exist.  More than anything else, that’s where they will lose me.  Mine hasn’t burned up yet probably because it sees such light use, but believe me, if I feel left high and dry on this one I won’t hesitate to ditch more than just the Kapex.

 

[bertv]

There is no such thing as brand loyalty. If you are a discerning consumer/buyer you want to buy the optimum tool for your needs. If that turns out, repeatedly, to be products from the same manufacturer, you might be considered 'brand loyal'. But -- the moment that brand disappoints, they loose your loyalty.

Which apparently happens quite a lot (viz The Poplar shop and other FOG-ers).

Brands, or let's say corporations, fiddle around with cost vs profits - they try to maximise return on investment. etc. The thing that sets Festool apart is that is a family owned corp. Which might imply that they are more concerned about their reputation than a Chinese conglomerate that owns brand from all kinds of origins. That is -- until they try to build up profits to sell out, but there are no indications that such is the case.

The only thing that counts is that you keep your wits about, be critical and stay blind to fancy marketing and such.

 

[peter halle]

There is no such thing as brand loyalty. If you are a discerning consumer/buyer you want to buy the optimum tool for your needs. If that turns out, repeatedly, to be products from the same manufacturer, you might be considered 'brand loyal'. But -- the moment that brand disappoints, they loose your loyalty.

Which apparently happens quite a lot (viz The Poplar shop and other FOG-ers).

Brands, or let's say corporations, fiddle around with cost vs profits - they try to maximise return on investment. etc. The thing that sets Festool apart is that is a family owned corp. Which might imply that they are more concerned about their reputation than a Chinese conglomerate that owns brand from all kinds of origins. That is -- until they try to build up profits to sell out, but there are no indications that such is the case.

The only thing that counts is that you keep your wits about, be critical and stay blind to fancy marketing and such.

Bert, it is my understanding that Festool and TTS were set up from a legal standpoint from the beginning to be a family business perpetually.  I learned this from more than one reliable source.

Peter

 

[bertv]

Good to hear that. I like family owned firms.

 

[Holzhacker]

I'm not sure the complaints on the FOG are necessarily a good indicator of diminishing brand loyalty. We tend to be a picky, bitchy bunch far more than the average consumer; especially when it comes to tools. My tools put food on the table, they better perform or the manufacturer isn't going to get anymore of my money.
As far as brand loyalty, I am loyal as long as a company is making a good product that I need. And yes I'll pay a premium if I like the product enough. If the product blows then I'm not buying it. Luckily for me my Kapex hasn't had any issues. The Trion isn't any better than a Bosch but not any worse either so its ok. All the other vast amounts of festools have paid for themselves very well.
My guess (and recommendation if someone asked me, which no one will  [big grin]) is that festool may be looking at the hobbyist and corporate markets more than the contractor market. Corporate clients have money, need DC and like the cache. Hobbyists will justify the cost. If I were festool I wouldn't put too much effort getting the contractor market, some effort yes but not my main focus. It would be festool competing against the low ball bidder for tool dollars, i.e. home depot, menards, etc.

 

[pettyconstruction]

I'm not sure the complaints on the FOG are necessarily a good indicator of diminishing brand loyalty. We tend to be a picky, bitchy bunch far more than the average consumer; especially when it comes to tools. My tools put food on the table, they better perform or the manufacturer isn't going to get anymore of my money.
As far as brand loyalty, I am loyal as long as a company is making a good product that I need. And yes I'll pay a premium if I like the product enough. If the product blows then I'm not buying it. Luckily for me my Kapex hasn't had any issues. The Trion isn't any better than a Bosch but not any worse either so its ok. All the other vast amounts of festools have paid for themselves very well.
My guess (and recommendation if someone asked me, which no one will  [big grin]) is that festool may be looking at the hobbyist and corporate markets more than the contractor market. Corporate clients have money, need DC and like the cache. Hobbyists will justify the cost. If I were festool I wouldn't put too much effort getting the contractor market, some effort yes but not my main focus. It would be festool competing against the low ball bidder for tool dollars, i.e. home depot, menards, etc.

I think you hit the nail on the head,
Festool seems to be going for the dyi/hobbyist more than the contractor/carpenter.
I NEED a miter saw that's lite,accurate and has a dust management system , but will wait till they get this ironed out.
I have been at the counter of my local tool shop many times to buy the kapex , but theses threads have crept into my mind before pulling the trigger.
A lot of saws fit the bill , but only one is less than 50lbs , and that's what I need.
Charlie

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[sancho57]

Who cares?  Really, why care?

[member=3891]WarnerConstCo.[/member]

Well Darcy,
No ones watching football now so they have to do something to occupy their time