Will cutting cement board damage the TS saws?

J

JDLee

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
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45
Is it okay to cut concrete backerboard (like Hardibacker) with a TS saw if you're using the dust collection?

I'm installing quite a bit of QuietRock soundproofing drywall.  The version I'm using is 5/8" thick and consists of two equally-thick layers:  one layer is regular drywall, the other is equivalent to concrete backerboard.  There is also a very thin layer of viscoelastic sound absorbing polymers.

You're supposed to be able to score and snap this stuff, but that isn't working.  So I'm cutting it with a Bosch wormdrive saw and it is creating way too much dust. 

I'd like to cut this stuff with a TS55 or TS75 using a Festool vacuum, but I wonder if the dust would still damage my saw (even with the vacuum attached).  Would it?

(I know that it would take a heavy toll on the blade, but I'm alright with that.)
 
Score with the right knife (H/D sells them) score about three times and put some scrap to give a straight edge under the score, then you can break it off accurately (as long as your cutting more than 1 1/2" or so, less than that and you have to snap it off in pieces with some pliers)

I think that dust is horribly abrasive, I don't think I would subject any nice tools to the stuff (or my lungs, by the way)

You can buy blades for cuttting hardibacker (H/D Again) for a regular 7 1/4 Circular saw, they work pretty good (and hold up way longer than the 2' you'll get from a wood blade)

I own the blade for using with  PC Circular saw, but always these days end up cutting by scoring. Takes practice but it does work.
 
Steve Jones said:
Score with the right knife (H/D sells them) score about three times and put some scrap to give a straight edge under the score, then you can break it off accurately (as long as your cutting more than 1 1/2" or so, less than that and you have to snap it off in pieces with some pliers)

I think that dust is horribly abrasive, I don't think I would subject any nice tools to the stuff (or my lungs, by the way)

You can buy blades for cuttting hardibacker (H/D Again) for a regular 7 1/4 Circular saw, they work pretty good (and hold up way longer than the 2' you'll get from a wood blade)
Click to expand...

Ok, "Fes-Up time!"  I have used the 55 to cut hardibacker.  Dude, my shop still looked like Linus from the Peanuts gang even though I had it hooked into a 22.  I may be mistaken, but I believe there may be some warranty issues with this practice....I cannot say with certainty, but I will find out!

Steve is right on with the scoring technique...works like a champ!

Timmy
 
Hi Steve

I don't know if you've worked with this QuietRock stuff (especially the 525 with the ceramic layer), but scoring and snapping is not an option.  We've tried, both with razors and with a carbide-tipped scoring knife that is made for concrete board.  It just does not work.  And even the techs at QuietSolutions admitted as much to me when I pressed the issue.

My concern is the damage the dust would do, so maybe I'll just keep working with the Bosch.
 
That would appear to be the case. The US Instruction Manual  states:

Use for intended purpose
The hand-operated circular saw TS 55 EQ is designed exclusively
for the sawing of wood, wood-like materials and plastics.
With the special saw blades for aluminium offered by Festool,
these machines can also be used for sawing aluminium.
The machine should not be converted or modifi ed, e.g. for any
other form of use, other than as specifi ed in these operating
instructions.
The user shall be liable for damages and accidents resulting
from incorrect use.

Festool Limited Warranty
This warranty is valid on the pre-condition that the tool is
used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating
instructions.

Interestingly, the instructions also mention the procedure for cutting the following:

D) Sawing plaster and cement-bonded fibre boards
Due to the high build-up of dust, using a cover (accessories)
that is mounted on the side of the protective cover is recommended.

I reckon that cutting soapstone is definitely forbidden!

Forrest

_______________________________________

That is exactly what I am talking about.  The TS 55 disclosure is for wood; however, the D) entry for the quoted post implies that a protective cover is recommended.  It may just be me, but that sounds a bit ambiguous....?

I will try to get an official position on this issue....unless someone else beats me to it.

T
 
Timmy C said:
That would appear to be the case. The US Instruction Manual  states:

Use for intended purpose
The hand-operated circular saw TS 55 EQ is designed exclusively
for the sawing of wood, wood-like materials and plastics.
With the special saw blades for aluminium offered by Festool,
these machines can also be used for sawing aluminium.
The machine should not be converted or modifi ed, e.g. for any
other form of use, other than as specifi ed in these operating
instructions.
The user shall be liable for damages and accidents resulting
from incorrect use.

Festool Limited Warranty
This warranty is valid on the pre-condition that the tool is
used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating
instructions.

Interestingly, the instructions also mention the procedure for cutting the following:

D) Sawing plaster and cement-bonded fibre boards
Due to the high build-up of dust, using a cover (accessories)
that is mounted on the side of the protective cover is recommended.

I reckon that cutting soapstone is definitely forbidden!

Forrest

_______________________________________

That is exactly what I am talking about.  The TS 55 disclosure is for wood; however, the D) entry for the quoted post implies that a protective cover is recommended.  It may just be me, but that sounds a bit ambiguous....?

I will try to get an official position on this issue....unless someone else beats me to it.

T
Click to expand...
 

Tim,

I agree with the ambiguity here. Basically, that type of abrasive dust can do all sorts of damage and these saws are meant to cut wood, not cement-fiberboard. I don't think cutting a few sheets of the stuff would be a cause for concern, but if used for cutting on a continuous or even regular basis, would damage the tool and, if Festool so chose, would void the warranty.

  Bob
 
Timmy C said:
That is exactly what I am talking about.  The TS 55 disclosure is for wood; however, the D) entry for the quoted post implies that a protective cover is recommended.  It may just be me, but that sounds a bit ambiguous....?

I will try to get an official position on this issue....unless someone else beats me to it.

T
Click to expand...

Hello Timmy and others,

I await your determination on this.  As a retired attorney, I can tell you that the language recommending the protective cover when cutting cement fiber board, without an accompanying statement that such cutting is not recommended or would void the warranty, would mean Festool would likely lose in court if they tried to deny warranty coverage as a result of cutting backerboard.  But it seems I'm with everyone here in wanting to do the right thing and not use the tool for purposes for which it may not be intended. 

If it is okay to use it for this type of cutting, it would great.  The Quietrock I'm using costs $65 per 4'x8' sheet.  Their other versions cost between $40 and $168 dollars per sheet.  So precise, careful cuts are essential (they're also essential to the soundproofing).

I would like to know Festool's official position.  I know that dust is nasty stuff.  I was thinking that maybe the dust collection is such that it would end up in the vacuum before it could do harm to the saw.  While I would only be making cuts in a few dozen pieces of QuietRock, I don't want to damage the saw.

My contractor seems to think that something to do with the acidity of the concrete board dust is what will damage tools.  That doesn't sound right to me.  It's the abrasiveness that concerns me.

I do appreciate all of the input.
 
how about using a jigsaw (Festool or otherwise) with a carbide blade?  I just had to do some sink cutouts in hardibacker and the dust wasn't too bad (still did it outside with a respirator on) and I didn't have it hooked up to dust collection.

Carl
 
woodgeek said:
how about using a jigsaw (Festool or otherwise) with a carbide blade?  I just had to do some sink cutouts in hardibacker and the dust wasn't too bad (still did it outside with a respirator on) and I didn't have it hooked up to dust collection.

Carl
Click to expand...

Hi Carl.  A jigsaw is great for making cutouts like that.  I'm using a cordless jigsaw to make the small cutouts for electric boxes and such.  But it wouldn't be helpful for the long cuts.  Unless I used the Festool jigsaw with the guide rails, in which case I'd be exposing it to the dust, so that brings me back to the same point.
 
Timmy C said:
Ok, "Fes-Up time!"  I have used the 55 to cut hardibacker.  Dude, my shop still looked like Linus from the Peanuts gang even though I had it hooked into a 22.  I may be mistaken, but I believe there may be some warranty issues with this practice....I cannot say with certainty, but I will find out!

Steve is right on with the scoring technique...works like a champ!

Timmy
Click to expand...

Hey Timmy - I think you mean Pigpen from the Peanuts gang. Linus just had a blanket. Pigpen was always covered in dirt and dust...

Do I have too much time on my hands..?
 
I would think a jig saw, and a fence would work great. If the concern is the tool, I would buy a cheap corded one, and clamp a 2x4 for a fence. Probably not the answer for a Festool website, but I wouldn't want to tear up my good saw either (My Festool).
 
robtonya said:
I would think a jig saw, and a fence would work great. If the concern is the tool, I would buy a cheap corded one, and clamp a 2x4 for a fence. Probably not the answer for a Festool website, but I wouldn't want to tear up my good saw either (My Festool).
Click to expand...

If you have another circular saw, you can use a clamped board as a fence for it, too, or glue that fence to a strip of 1/4" to 1/3" plywood, then trim the strip by running your saw along the fence.  Then you'll have a home made guide rail to use with your non-Festool saw so you can cut this nasty sheet material accurately.  I ruined a circular saw cutting fireplace hearthstones with one of those abrasive filled fiberglass disks.  Inexpensive diamond blades weren't available 30 years ago.  Some small pieces of the stone got sucked into the motor via its cooling fan and chewed through the insulation of some of its windings.

Dave R.
 
While I can understand the "why sacrafice a good saw?"  Part of me also asks what is so much different from the 300.00$  5057FB Makita Fiber Cement Saw, especially if cutting these materials is a one off or occasional practice.

Me personally, if i could find a blade to fit the Festool Arbor or perhaps 439686 special blade yield enough cuts to justify the expense, I'd do it.

I would of course take the saw outside after a couple of cuts and blow it out with compressed air and at the end of the day take it apart slightly to blow it inside clean. 

Festool has no issues with Rotex's and the like working on granite.

I would only opt for the specialty cement saw if it was needed on a daily basis primarily because blades are 28$. 

Right now in the winter, since cutting outside is sometimes not an option I would not use a cheap saw without dust collection, my health, clean up time is worth a lot more than burning up a Festool or Makita.

I will susept my TS55 to just about anything any other saw of the same size and power can handle.  My challenge would be blade options.

   
 
I don't know whether all that abrasive dust will damage the inner workings of the saw, but I wonder about the exterior.  I'm not talking about asthetics, but the base, plastic guide bushings, etc.  You might be able to consider some parts sacrificial, so maybe a full tune -up is ok.  Just a thought.

Dan
 
luns4d said:
The Hardiebacker website installation guide does NOT recommend using power tools except for shears.  The installation guide is here: http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/backer-install-us.pdf[url=installatior guide]http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/backer-install-us.pdf.  They also have a rice video explaining the risks and concerns here:  http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/helpSupport_productInstructions.shtml 

I think that the TS is the wrong tool for this task.

-Gary
Click to expand...

Gary-

Thanks for the response, but the concern with power tools relates to the dust they create while cutting.  I was merely looking for a good way to cut the Hardie and similar products with tools that feature dust collection.  There are many blades specifically designed for cutting Hardie products with circular saws and miter saws (they have fewer teeth and generate much less dust).  I don't think there is a blade like this made for Festool saws. 

Ultimately I gave up on the idea of using my Festool saw to cut Hardie and similar products.  I had attempted to have a blade designed for use with Hardie products and a 7 1/4" saw modified (the arbor enlarged) for use with a Festool saw.  Unfortunately, the diamond-shaped knockout in the blade made it impossible to enlarge the arbor accurately and the blade was rendered useless (a potential outcome I was warned of in advance).

When I installed Hardieplank siding on my home, I used a 12" blade designed for Hardie products on my Ridgid miter saw.  I wouldn't cut the stuff any other way.  I got perfect, straight, 90 degree cuts every time.  I've never used the shears, but I think the only benefit to them is less dust generation.

I always use the best dust collection I can rig-up, whether it's a dust collection device designed for my Bosch worm drive circular saw, or a vacuum attached to my Rigid (which I don't bother with outdoors).  In fact, there are circular saws specifically designed for use with Hardie products (there was a review of them in a recent issue of Fine Homebuilding or the Journal of Light Construction).  But I ALWAYS wear a high quality dust mask.  If you do that, the dust is just a nuisance.

Those warnings from Hardie are just CYA stuff in case of lawsuits.  They'd rather tell you not to use power tools at all than risk people implementing inadequate collection measures.  The fact is, if anything you are doing is generating dust, you're going to be better off not breathing it.
 
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