Would you be interested in a Height-Adjustable MFT? Let us know!

[BigHonu]

How about making each leg adjustable so that you can level the table on an uneven surface, then have a mechanism where you can then raise or lower the table easily but still keeping the adjusted legs in their position.  That way  you can raise or lower a work piece without having to lose your level surface.

 

[Kristian]

I've been hoping for an updated version of the MFT800 for a while now. I'm 6' 2" and would prefer a 900+ mm working height. I considered buying the MFT 3 but since I live in an apartment on the 4th. floor I prefer the portability of the MFT800's smaller dimensions. Maybe I should just buy the MFT800 and find something to raise it with - I'm just a bit worried about a possible loss of stability and simplicity.

An adjustable model would be an option worth considering. If only it comes out light-weight and simple.

I have tried a couple of different sawhorses and clamping tables over the years and common to all of them seemed to be that the more adjustable they were - the more unstable they were. So I'm just hoping that whatever Festool decide upon they won't let the complexity of it's adjustable system compromise the stability of the table.

- Kristian

 

[Holzhacker]

Height adjustable MFT is probably not necessary for a lot of my work but would be convenient in some circumstances. Especially the ability to lower it. I have raised it at times by just putting 2x's under it, not often though.
- I'm scared of the integral crank system driving the cost too high. I'd like to get another MFT at this point, need another job to come along and justify the expense. An MFT that cost even more is unlikely to get purchased.
- Raising or lowering each leg independently with a drill would seem like a good cheaper option. Festool could basically make 12" leg attachments that slip onto current legs and keep the cost down. I realize for guys with bad backs bending over to adjust 4 legs independently probably isn't a good option though.
- I wouldn't want the new adjustable version to replace the existing.
As someone else eluded to, providing an 'erector set' type MFT system would really be a great set-up for Festool to come out with. This would seem more desirable that height adjustment. Say like CS modules without the power built on so UL wouldn't be an issue. I mean we are wood workers we could never figure out any kind of electrical switching issues, therefore no danger. Also providing kits that allow us to assemble and attach 1/2 or 1/4 sized MFT's to an existing MFT3 would be great. Like an added on wing for longer material support, etc. This would be better than wings or board extensions because we could maintain the hole spacing and clamping ability.

 

[Ted Miller]

I think all of the legs should have an adjustment, up and down at least 4".

When you use these tables at sites nothing is ever level.

Extra weight would not matter to me as ever tool I have gets heavier each year...

 

[Wonderwino]

My back would love an adjustable MFT!  I'm currently brainstorming on a way to put my recently acquired 1080 on stilts.   [smile]

Don't worry Shane, I filled out the survey too. [tongue]

Roger Savatteri raised his MFT180s by placing inverted flower pots that had a recessed base under the legs, raising the tables about 6".  They were quite stable.

hmmm, almost true! [big grin]

The table lifts were actually bed lifts sold by Bed, Bath & Beyond. (That cost way less than the time I would spend fabricating something.)
They are sold in sets of four and available in two heights, see the links below.
They are in fact extremely stable, and if you want to combine two 1080 tables together  "width wise" - where the two leg sets come together I had to modify the tops slightly by nibbing them on my bandsaw.

Highly recommended until Festool comes up with their fix. (perhaps a little less costly)  

btw, regarding the adjustable table I would be all for it - it should adjust down at least to the height of the 1080.
Better would be to knee height - to facilitate assemblies.

Also, in my humble opinion, I don't believe Festool will advertise the new table for use as a scaffold without selling side guard rails ................for liability issues.

cheers,
Roger

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=13262713&RN=404&

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=12106769&RN=404&

Flower pots... [embarassed]  I knew that was wrong after I posted it.  The bed lifts is one of many great ideas Roger has come up with.  [big grin]

 

[GPowers]

Being 6'4" I would love to have n MFT/3 that I could adjust to a higher level.  The current MFT/3 is a little low for me. But then again so are the rest of the counters and tables in the world.

 

[mavrick1903]

Shane, the MFT is on my short list. what do you suppose the time frame would be to see this over here? 6mo, 1yr, 5yr? would this replace the current MFT/3 or be a second offering? how much do you suppose this hight adjustment feature might effect the cost?

 

[Christian93117]

Mavrick1903,

At this point we are just talking about a concept and no time frame is set yet. No decision is made if this is going to become a real product at all. I can't even guess the time frame, but I am almost sure we won't see anything in the next 12 months.

I'd like to ask everybody who didn't participate in the survey to go to the first post, click on the link, and fill out the questionnaire. It takes no more than 5 minutes and helps us to determine if this is a project worth pursuing or not.
The more feedback we are getting, the better. Thank you for taking the time filling out the questionnaire!

Christian

 

[RONWEN]

    "there would be an ability to raise and lower the MFT based on the current concept. Imagine a crank mechanism, operated by either a handle or used with a drill, that could be used to adjust the height of all four legs simultaneously."

A mechanical system with synchronous linkage sounds costly, over-engineered, and ++heavy for a "portable" work table.  For many years there has been a company that sells an infinitely adjustable system for work benches, work tables, etc. based on small air cylinders that works well but even that would add weight and a fair amount of cost to the MFT. 
Of course our role here is not to engineer it but rather define the required functionality but I'm thinking more along the line of independent leg pin adjustments based on a walking cane or even the friction twist lock found on walking sticks.

 

[jmbfestool]

   "there would be an ability to raise and lower the MFT based on the current concept. Imagine a crank mechanism, operated by either a handle or used with a drill, that could be used to adjust the height of all four legs simultaneously."

A mechanical system with synchronous linkage sounds costly, over-engineered, and ++heavy for a "portable" work table.   For many years there has been a company that sells an infinitely adjustable system for work benches, work tables, etc. based on small air cylinders that works well but even that would add weight and a fair amount of cost to the MFT.  
Of course our role here is not to engineer it but rather define the required functionality but I'm thinking more along the line of independent leg pin adjustments based on a walking cane or even the friction twist lock found on walking sticks.

If it was pins with set adjustments count me out!  I will not be buying one completely useless for site still as its often only 15mm or more adjustment to get it from not rocking around. The current MFT one foot turn is not enough.  If I would consider buying one I want it to adjust by millimetres and not every 4 inches or so. So like your twist lock would work I would like it to have the click so you know it has locked and will stay I would hate it to give way because it was not tight enough.  

I think they should be spring loaded strong enough to hold the bench up its self so you release all the legs so of coarse all legs will be fully extended because of the springs and you place it on the ground and it will kinda self level to the ground and if you want to lower it you just push down on the table and tighten each leg. At least this way with the springs you know all four legs are firm on the ground and its easier for you to lift the table up if you wanted just simply loosening all the legs. It will save a lot of time extending every leg pulling the leg out and then tighten and walk around the bench to do all four then finding out the table is not stable for you then just do some more adjustments to get it stable.   Let the springs do the Work I say.

Oh if you wanted simply placing a level on the table you can get the table level alot easier with spring loaded legs. Not that I am ever bothered about a level bench on site as long as its not really angled it does me but some people might though!

JMB

 

[Wood_Junkie]

The key to anything height adjustable will be increments that make sense, AND a micro adjustment on at least two of the legs with enough travel equal to 1/2 of the increment.

So, if you can adjust to indexable 1" increments, the micro adjustment must move at least 1/2".  That way you can actually level things.  If you need more than 1/2" adjusting down, you need to move to the next pin and micro adjust "up".

The single micro adjust foot on the current MFTs doesn't suit all/most situations, and there should definitely be two.  They should both be on one side (the "front", however it is oriented in use).

 

[Corwin]

The key to anything height adjustable will be increments that make sense, AND a micro adjustment on at least two of the legs with enough travel equal to 1/2 of the increment.

So, if you can adjust to indexable 1" increments, the micro adjustment must move at least 1/2".  That way you can actually level things.  If you need more than 1/2" adjusting down, you need to move to the next pin and micro adjust "up".

The single micro adjust foot on the current MFTs doesn't suit all/most situations, and there should definitely be two.  They should both be on one side (the "front", however it is oriented in use).

Really, really, really want to see all four legs have adjustable levelers -- any less and you cannot properly level two or more tables that you are joining together. 

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I know that everyone wants adjustable equipment due to ergonomics.  Adjustability is expensive though.  A production facility may want to invest in adjustable height tables if there will be a lot of different users within a day.  However, we are single users of this product.  We may adjust it once, and then never touch that adjustment again.  It is good to have that option, if you can afford it.  Otherwise, its money wasted.

There are ergonomic specifications for non-adjustable work surface heights which are task dependent.  I believe that the current height of the MFT was the best compromise for a majority of the population.  There may be some people who represent outliers like the 6'4" guys and the 5'4" men and women, but the majority of people fall within a bell-shaped curve where the current height is not sufficient.

If you need the table taller, add risers.  If you need it shorter, add a step in front of it.  Ergonomic Engineer's have been recommending these cost-effective solutions for assembly lines for years.

 

[jmbfestool]

I know that everyone wants adjustable equipment due to ergonomics.  Adjustability is expensive though.  A production facility may want to invest in adjustable height tables if there will be a lot of different users within a day.  However, we are single users of this product.  We may adjust it once, and then never touch that adjustment again.  It is good to have that option, if you can afford it.  Otherwise, its money wasted.

There are ergonomic specifications for non-adjustable work surface heights which are task dependent.  I believe that the current height of the MFT was the best compromise for a majority of the population.  There may be some people who represent outliers like the 6'4" guys and the 5'4" men and women, but the majority of people fall within a bell-shaped curve where the current height is not sufficient.

If you need the table taller, add risers.  If you need it shorter, add a step in front of it.  Ergonomic Engineer's have been recommending these cost-effective solutions for assembly lines for years.

umm no I would adjust it every day! As I have my bench on site in a different place every day and most jobs dont have flat ground so I know ill be doing alot of adjustments and thats why I like my Spring Idea!!! 

Being able just to place the MFT on the ground and the legs self adjust to the ground is quick easy and saves alot of hassle and I would buy one or even two if they made one like that.

JMB

 

[jvsteenb]

In a sense, my MFT3 is already height-adjustable, for it can be used "collapsed",  i.e. with the legs still folded down. I actually use this quite a lot, for a quick cut now and again. It's about ( probably exactly, knowing Festools system approach ) the same height as a SYS2, and one of them is always at hand to act as an on-the-fly extension.  The Downside is that there's too little room to use the regular clamps, and it's quite a bit to low for lots of tasks.

I would even be happy with an extra "in-between" heigth, so it can be more useful as an on-site assembly table. Perhaps an extra pair of legs ?
Just a wild brainf*rt, actually.... [embarassed]

Regards,

Job

 

[jmbfestool]

In a sense, my MFT3 is already height-adjustable, for it can be used "collapsed",  i.e. with the legs still folded down. I actually use this quite a lot, for a quick cut now and again. It's about ( probably exactly, knowing Festools system approach ) the same height as a SYS2, and one of them is always at hand to act as an on-the-fly extension.  The Downside is that there's too little room to use the regular clamps, and it's quite a bit to low for lots of tasks.

I would even be happy with an extra "in-between" heigth, so it can be more useful as an on-site assembly table. Perhaps an extra pair of legs ?
Just a wild brainf*rt, actually.... [embarassed]

Regards,

Job

I did that once but then thought to my self if I can be bothered to actually get it out of my van onto site I might as well open up the legs. I use my festool systainers instead if I can not be bothered to get my MFT out the van.

JMB

 

[Peterm]

There seems to be a fundamental difference in needs between the guys who use an MFT almost exclusively in the workshop and would like to alter the height to match their other equipment, and the guys using use an MFT 'in the field' who need to accomodate uneven ground etc...

Personally, I fall between these two camps; I have a fixed MFT in the workshop on a shelf designed to make it a common height with my other benches; I don't use an MFT on a jobsite as it's totally the wrong height for me; if I could have adjustable height I would be happy to buy one (better still, a set of legs) for site use, but not if the height adjustment added significant complexity, weight or cost. Some whizz-bang doohickey that adjusts all four legs at once via a hand-crank or drill-bit is a real no-no for me personally; tripods (for cameras, telescopes etc...) have for years had channel legs that lock with a simple cam-lever - surely something like this could be used for adjustment on each leg??

Peter

 

[Kodi Crescent]

umm no I would adjust it every day! As I have my bench on site in a different place every day and most jobs dont have flat ground so I know ill be doing alot of adjustments and thats why I like my Spring Idea!!! 

Being able just to place the MFT on the ground and the legs self adjust to the ground is quick easy and saves alot of hassle and I would buy one or even two if they made one like that.

JMB

It seems like you are talking about 2 different things, at least from my perspective.  You could get a leg leveler add on like the Little Giant ladders have.  This would allow you to place the table on uneven ground. 

Adjusting the table to different heights is a different story though.  I believe there have been ergonomic studies as to whether people really use the adjustments on their equipment.  When asked if someone would use the adjustments, many say "Oh, yes!  I'd adjust it every day!".  When researchers go into the field and measure these adjustments over time, they find that the equipment really doesn't get adjusted much, if at all.

One of the very difficult things relating to product design and research is "how much do you listen to the customer?"  Customers will tell you one thing, but observation tends to prove something different.

 

[Alan m]

i agree with the last post , in than the adjustability of most tools is not used regularly. but i think that this is because each user has found thier perfect height and left it there.  this does not mean that they dont need the adjustability as without it their set up would be at a different height  that is out of their control..

we need both a height adjustable and easily leveled bench for both the workshop and for on site work , even if we only set it once it is still in constant use at that setting .

 

[Christian93117]

The poll is closed now.

Thank you everybody very much for participating. Your feedback is very helpful!

We will keep reading this discussion, so please keep posting your thoughts on the height-adjustable MFT.

Christian