Would you be interested in a large (48") precision aluminum layout square

[wow]

First, I guess I should make it known that I was for several years the general manager of Performax Tools (the drum sander company and precursor to today's SuperMax Tools, not the chinese crap that carries that brand today). I am quite familiar with aluminum, extrusions and manufacturing. I mention this to establish a little credibility for what comes next.

I have been thinking a lot about options to manufacture a large precision layout square, and have investigated some possibilities. Here were my original ideas:

* Layout Square.pdf (21.96 KB - downloaded 150 times.)

I am now thinking that I would make them 48" on the long edge from where they would be placed against the edge of your sheet good. They would be precision laser cut (tolerance of around .005" over the length) out of 1/4" T6061 aluminum or similar material. They would be available as either plain (unfinished) aluminum or anodized, depending on the general consensus. I believe I could produce the 'L' model for sale at around $150-$200, and the triangle model for about $50 over that (due to much higher material costs).

With that said, would anyone have an interest in such a product? I could probably produce as few as 50 and attain these prices.

Please let me know your thoughts, suggestions, concerns, etc. This could well become my next business venture if people think they'd sell?

 

[RDMuller]

I am not sure I need one of this size.  I already have the A-Square.  It does not have a lip and that really makes using it not fun.

After getting my large 18" aluminum Triangle square from Woodpecker, I will tell you there is one component that is absolutely essential --- the lip on one edge.  I am not trying to be funny here, but "A blind man could use it and tell if something was square".  The lip is going to be the deciding factor on squares from now on from 12 inches on up.

 

[wow]

I am not sure I need one of this size.  I already have the A-Square.  It does not have a lip and that really makes using it not fun.

After getting my large 18" aluminum Triangle square from Woodpecker, I will tell you there is one component that is absolutely essential --- the lip on one edge.   I am not trying to be funny here, but "A blind man could use it and tell if something was square".  The lip is going to be the deciding factor on squares from now on from 12 inches on up.

Understood and agreed. The colored (red) portion of the drawings above represent a 1/4" lip to do exactly that. There would be one on each side, so the square would be reversible/flipable to aid in quick setup regardless of orientation.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

[semenza]

Ideally I would want it to be more like 50" or what ever length would make it long enough to completely cross a 48 1/2" (extra 1/2" for over sized sheet goods) sheet. If the blade is 48" it will come up a couple inches short when actually placed on the sheet.

Seth

 

[Sign Guy]

I have a fair amount of sheet stock and play alot.
Shown are rock sliders for my RZR.
Not so sure about the 1/4" choice or 6061 for that.

 

[fshanno]

I assume you are talking about a larger version of the squares and triangles from woodpecker and pinnicale. 

When it comes to breaking down sheet goods in the field for case work.  Fast accurate crosscutting right on the portable platform you do your ripping on has always been problematic with Festool.

Why not make it a TS55 guide in addition to being a square?  All it would need would be little rabbet for the chip protecter strip and a bar down it's length to for the TS55 channel to ride over.

There have been all sorts of t-square gizmos that depend on attachment to the guide but never anything really solid.

Here's an idea.

[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

It's a square but it can also be used as a guide.  Adding a stop for repetitive crosscuts would be nice.

Festool has done a fair job of placing the TS55 in the middle of a true cabinet making system.  By cabinet making system I mean a system for very rapidly breaking down a stack of plywood into cabinet parts.  But there is much room for improvement. 

 

[JeromeM]

First, I guess I should make it known that I was for several years the general manager of Performax Tools (the drum sander company and precursor to today's SuperMax Tools, not the chinese crap that carries that brand today). I am quite familiar with aluminum, extrusions and manufacturing. I mention this to establish a little credibility for what comes next.

I have been thinking a lot about options to manufacture a large precision layout square, and have investigated some possibilities. Here were my original ideas:

* Layout Square.pdf (21.96 KB - downloaded 150 times.)

I am now thinking that I would make them 48" on the long edge from where they would be placed against the edge of your sheet good. They would be precision laser cut (tolerance of around .005" over the length) out of 1/4" T6061 aluminum or similar material. They would be available as either plain (unfinished) aluminum or anodized, depending on the general consensus. I believe I could produce the 'L' model for sale at around $150-$200, and the triangle model for about $50 over that (due to much higher material costs).

With that said, would anyone have an interest in such a product? I could probably produce as few as 50 and attain these prices.

Please let me know your thoughts, suggestions, concerns, etc. This could well become my next business venture if people think they'd sell?

Your PDF has gone.

 

[wow]

Ideally I would want it to be more like 50" or what ever length would make it long enough to completely cross a 48 1/2" (extra 1/2" for over sized sheet goods) sheet. If the blade is 48" it will come up a couple inches short when actually placed on the sheet.

Seth

Seth:

Would there be any issue if it were slightly LONGER than 48"? In my original drawing it was actually about 52" usable length in order to overhang a piece of 49' stock by a couple of inches. Someone commented - correctly - that it didn't need to be that long if you were just butting your guide rail up against it, but I can see myself using it for a great deal more than just a guide rail layout tool. I guess that's a long-winded  way of saying I think you are right about it being better to be a little longer. Consider it done if I actually try to produce this product...which is looking more probable as the comments add up.

 

[wow]

I have a fair amount of sheet stock and play alot.
Shown are rock sliders for my RZR.
Not so sure about the 1/4" choice or 6061 for that.

I'm hijacking my own thread to ask about the form in picture number 6 - the angle break? I am looking for something similar to that to use on my hydraulic shop press for those 'occassional' times I need a heavy-duty brake. Any vendor/dealer you can point me too?

 

[wow]

Your PDF has gone.

I have no idea why that happened, but I'll post it again:

 

[wow]

I assume you are talking about a larger version of the squares and triangles from woodpecker and pinnicale.  

When it comes to breaking down sheet goods in the field for case work.  Fast accurate crosscutting right on the portable platform you do your ripping on has always been problematic with Festool.

Why not make it a TS55 guide in addition to being a square?  All it would need would be little rabbet for the chip protecter strip and a bar down it's length to for the TS55 channel to ride over.

There have been all sorts of t-square gizmos that depend on attachment to the guide but never anything really solid.

Here's an idea.

[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

It's a square but it can also be used as a guide.  Adding a stop for repetitive crosscuts would be nice.

Festool has done a fair job of placing the TS55 in the middle of a true cabinet making system.  By cabinet making system I mean a system for very rapidly breaking down a stack of plywood into cabinet parts.  But there is much room for improvement.  

fshanno:

Interesting ideas, but I think something with a guide rail will have to wait for 'Version 2' or so. For now - and for broader appeal - I think I need to stay focused on the idea of a simple high-precision general-purpose (i.e not unique to Festool) layout tool. But you've definitely got me thinking about future options or versions. Thanks!

 

[Sign Guy]

I'm hijacking my own thread to ask about the form in picture number 6 - the angle break? I am looking for something similar to that to use on my hydraulic shop press for those 'occassional' times I need a heavy-duty brake. Any vendor/dealer you can point me too?
[/quote]
the answer is equipment auctions.
per your work history , your company receives gobs of equipment auction fliers like everyone else.
searching for items is easy these days via internet.
.
here are more photos showing how I pulled off that bend.
you see a cheater rod to assist in getting the bend angle past 90°.
The knife horn (upper die) is a pain to change. So I left it in and worked around it.
last photo changing out the 4-way bottom die.
You can source dies for almost any odd bend.
.
As far as your project just make a few.
Try them out.
Its petty cash to prototype what you are trying to describe.
Curious to see what design this becomes.
I can cut one but I'd want lots of markings on it. angles and measurements.

 

[jonny round boy]

That second option wouldn't work, at least not if I'm reading the drawing as intended - the guide rail needs to come past the square, so that you have overhang at the beginning of the cut.

 

[wow]

Here are my latest thoughts based on the input received above, and in a more 'Festive' color. Should make it a lot harder to lose in the shop or on the job.

[laughing]

 

[jonny round boy]

That second option wouldn't work, at least not if I'm reading the drawing as intended - the guide rail needs to come past the square, so that you have overhang at the beginning of the cut.

Don't know why my comment is showing before wow's post that I was referring to... [huh]

 

[wow]

That second option wouldn't work, at least not if I'm reading the drawing as intended - the guide rail needs to come past the square, so that you have overhang at the beginning of the cut.

OOPS! Thanks for catching that. Insomnia doesn't necessarily help with accuracy.

Option 2 would have to only have the bottom edge guide on one side like this:

[attachthumb=#]

 

[JeromeM]

That second option wouldn't work, at least not if I'm reading the drawing as intended - the guide rail needs to come past the square, so that you have overhang at the beginning of the cut.

OOPS! Thanks for catching that. Insomnia doesn't necessarily help with accuracy.

Option 2 would have to only have the bottom edge guide on one side like this:

If you do go for that option then something that might be useful is if you have an extension on the lip with holes that alow the rail connector to be bolted down. This would permit a rail to be attached for those that use it with the festool range to have a really accurate rightangle portable guide. The only disadvantage would be that you would probably be restricted to mounting the rail in one position. An advantage is that the lip extension from the square would be able to be less wide.

One point is that unless anodising is really expensive there is no point in not having it. There are few, if any, quality aluminium tools that aren't anodised.

 

[wow]

One point is that unless anodising is really expensive there is no point in not having it. There are few, if any, quality aluminium tools that aren't anodised.

I had a 'Eureka' moment last night and I think I have some great new ideas that people are going to LOVE. I am not ready to reveal them yet (might even try to patent them?) but I am proceeding with getting costs for all elements of this project. I will be getting quotes on anodizing (which you spelled wrong, BTW [big grin]) tomorrow. I will need to meet with various vendors about cutting, finishing, packaging, etc. in the next week or two.

In the meantime I hope people keep posting about this, because it seems I learn something or get another idea every time I come back to read a new post.

THANKS!

 

[jimbo51]

A question I have is what thickness of material you have in mind, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4?

 

[JeromeM]

One point is that unless anodising is really expensive there is no point in not having it. There are few, if any, quality aluminium tools that aren't anodised.

I had a 'Eureka' moment last night and I think I have some great new ideas that people are going to LOVE. I am not ready to reveal them yet (might even try to patent them?) but I am proceeding with getting costs for all elements of this project. I will be getting quotes on anodizing (which you spelled wrong, BTW [big grin])

well no I didn't spell anodising or anodised incorrectly [poke] as I was writing in English as I am English.  [jawdrop]

And as I am English and therefore polite  : I understand that you were waiting in a different language (American) and being so polite I refrained from pointing out your mistakes in spelling [big grin]
BTW you missed the "aluminium" spelling [poke]