About to click the OF1010 "Buy" button on Bob's site but.....

[Bill in seattle]

Bill
Don't be ticked about the edge guide not included, as far as I can remember back ten years or more for the 1010 or 1000. I looked at some of my festool books from 96/97/98/99, and it was never included. The guide rail adapter IS included and has been.I would go ahead and click away and if you need the edge guide order it as well.  This item has been a confusion for many years..........

Bill, I remember this change taking place about a year ago, I bought my 1010 two and a half years ago and it came wth the edge guide.

Brice
I stand partially corrected, it was included for a couple of years but it was called a side stop not a edge guide. That would account for the confusion. (Myself included now, as I always referred to it as a edge guide, and a side stop pt#485758 was/ is part of the hole drilling kit, or as a accessory for parallel alignment of the guide rail to a edge for ripping with the saw).  I went through the 2000-2008 books and up to 05 it was called the side stop. in 06 they called it a edge guide but a side stop in 07.
then it disappears.  Them germans got a differant word for everything, the real word is SEITENANSCHLAG for the 1010 and suprisingly PARALLELANSCHLAG just if anyone wanted to know.

 

[nickao]

Oh they are appealing and if the OF 2200 draws 19 amps good luck using it in many homes.

But that does show the thing has more power than a PC or Milwaukee unit.

That number is suspect and is probably a start up spike, which many routers show when the units are first turned on.

I wish I had one so I could make some direct measurements.

Does any of the info actually say 19 amps or just say 2200 watts, it makes a HUGE difference. Watts is an arrived unit, not an actual directly taken measurement, like current draw. Without the direct measurement I do not believe any of the manufactures, HP- Horse Power is the same, it is a bunch of crap.

Nick, I talked at length with the Festool staff about the current the 2200 draws both at startup and while running at max power. Turns out the 2200's electronics play a big role in allowing it to run at or below 15 amps for all but the most demanding jobs. In fact the 2200 can be used plugged into a vac for most routing normal jobs.

The soft start prevents a big draw at startup together with the MMC controlled electronics is what allows this. When routing with larger bits the speed of the router is turned down this reduces some current draw, it's not until the router is pushed hard that is draws more than 15 amps, really hard. For tough routing jobs you'd plug the 2200 into a separate circuit from the vac.  

Yes the newer electronics are great.

Still I want to see a current rating on that unit, NOT a wattage rating. 19 amps written on the side or I do not believe it. Sorry I am a little hard headed, especially when many of their tools do have the current rating.

There are just WAY to many ways to take the measurement and calculations. Any tool starts to draw more current as it loads down even to the point of popping a circuit. Whether it is a continuously available current draw that the router can handle under a long period of time is another thing entirely.

Maybe someday everyone will just go to the current in amps on the side of the tool. It is the only way. Knowing that everyone knows it creates confusion, why doesn't the company use the current rating, it's simple put it on there, then everyone know for sure. There is no reason to use a wattage rating except to create confusion as stated in Woodworkers journal and every other  publication that tests tools.

What you say may be true but Festool does themselves a disservice by just not putting the current draw on the side of the unit. You were told something and now you are telling me and it does not seem that is the best way to relay the power for a unit to the masses when all thy have to do is right the darn current draw on the side.

It just gnaws at me that they would be totally proud of this and not plaster this info all over. The tool  draws 19 amps, but is safe works in a 15 amp circuit great!

Forrest may be able to help, is there any ad that states this thing draws 19 amps anywhere and anywhere does the Festool info state it is a 19 amp tool that is safe on a 15 amp circuit becasue of this fancy electronics.

I mean Brice they told you this where is the documentation in all the ads? Again until the tool uses amps as the stated rating on the side I take it with a grain of salt, becasue I can only think of one reason a company wouldn't and that is obvious.

 

[mwhafner]

Nick,

I think that you are looking for a cut and dry answer to a question that is not that clear.  Most tools use their maximum current at startup and at heavy load.  The MMC electronics provide management of the current draw, virtually eliminating startup peaks and "softening the blow" as the tool comes under load.  The result is a greater variation in the actual amp draw of the motor. 
Only under the heaviest loads (large bits making heavy cuts) would the tool draw 19 amps.  To provide what you are asking for, would require a great deal of additional information, such as - size of bit, depth of cut, speed setting, and hardness of material.

Also, wattage rating really should not be a concern.  Watts are simply the amperage times the static voltage, so in this case the motor rating should actually be 18.33 amps @120volts (2200 watts / 120volts = 18.33 amps), 20 amps @110 volts.  Most engineers will tell you that wattage is really the more precise measurement, as opposed to amperage or the dreaded horsepower.

 

[Tinker]

I have not had much chance to check in here lately.  I had a few extra mins this morning and noticed this discussion.  i was interrested in the areas about bit shank sizes and which routers to use.  As Brice and others have noted, I go for my OF 1000 as first choice.  The next on the list is my OF 1400 which I normally set up for a second bit so I don't have to keep changing bits thru the day.  i also have a couple of PC's and an ancient Milwaukee.  The Milwaukee has only a 1/4" collet, altho Ii find I can purchase a 1/2" collet for it.  Of the non Festool routers, I like the milwaukee best.

I have never had a problem with 1/4" bits when used in my 1000.  My dislike for those 1/4" bits originated when using my PC 690.  They were forever slipping in the collet creating lots of smaller projects to be dreamed up.  The Milwaukee holds ok, but with the 1000, I have never had a bit drop on me.

I agree that it would probably not be a good thing to put a 1/2" collet on the 1000.  Overkill.

Thanks to those who mentioned slower speed for router.  I always thought it was best to use highest recommended speeds.  I think I learned something today.  I have had no problem with the cuts at the high speeds, but do have problems with gunk buildup on the cutters.  I will have some time to play today and will experiment a little this afternoon.

Off topic:  Way off topic, or is it?:  My snow plow truck has an 8' plow blade on it.  The truck handles every problem it is asked to do.  Deep snow, heavy drifts, no problem.  It walks thru everything.  The dealer told me the truck could handle a 9'blade.  We argued, but I will NOT go for a 9' blade on any driveway.  I see lots of guys with same size (model) truck as mine with those g--d---- 9 foot blades.  They cannot angle them as they drive down the road.  They take up too much room and run everybody else into the ditch.  I get my laugh when I see those guys with 9 foot blades hung up in heavy snow because they cannot get enought traction to move such loads.  Do I stop and help.  No way when I know that around the next bend, they will run me off the road once more.  Or, if i help. i have to listen to a string of complaints about the f------- underpowered truck they bought.  I have no problems with my little under sized  : blade and "underpowered" truck.  sort of same idea with putting 1/2" collets on OF 1000. It will handle normal use for smaller bits, but will it hang up when going to larger bits?  I thing maybe so.
Tinker

 

[Zaphod]

I've also be mystified by the OF200's power rating.  It's widely advertised as 18A / 2200 watts, yet comes with a standard 15A plug.  I always wondered how that would pass UL muster.  More telling though, it that the OF2200 is indeed rated as 15A as per page eight of the manual.  A bit deceptive to say the least.

 

[tbellemare]

watts = amps x volts

In Europe, the voltage is about twice what it is here.

Tom

 

[nickao]

Nick,

I think that you are looking for a cut and dry answer to a question that is not that clear.  Most tools use their maximum current at startup and at heavy load.  The MMC electronics provide management of the current draw, virtually eliminating startup peaks and "softening the blow" as the tool comes under load.  The result is a greater variation in the actual amp draw of the motor. 
Only under the heaviest loads (large bits making heavy cuts) would the tool draw 19 amps.  To provide what you are asking for, would require a great deal of additional information, such as - size of bit, depth of cut, speed setting, and hardness of material.

Also, wattage rating really should not be a concern.  Watts are simply the amperage times the static voltage, so in this case the motor rating should actually be 18.33 amps @120volts (2200 watts / 120volts = 18.33 amps), 20 amps @110 volts.  Most engineers will tell you that wattage is really the more precise measurement, as opposed to amperage or the dreaded horsepower.

Wattage is supposed to be a common calculation but if you look closely you will find there are 18 different ways to calculate wattage and horsepower.

So the current rating is the only true way to know.

The manufacturer should let us find the wattage ourselves by giving us the current rating stamped on the machine.

 

[nickao]

Tom yes correct, but that implies we are getting the correct current rating which is not stamped on the side of the unit.

They determined how they got the current rating, under their conditions, like holding the shaft and waiting until a certain point and then taking the current reading right before the unit blew up. Giving us wattage or HP means we have to trust their method of measuring the current.

Ever see a vac rated at 6 hp convert that to wattage then work backwards you will see it does not work out. To stamp the side with a current rating they have to follow very specific method, with a wattage number they can use their own method to create the current draw  for working out the watt number and then put that on the machine.

I am not saying the OF does not draw a certain amperage. I am not saying Festool is being deceptive. I am saying  that amps should be stamped on the side and it only creates confusion and distrust when it is not.

To me it is not an issue as every single book, magazine, reviewer and professional machine testers consumer reports as well, all agree every company should stamp the current rating using the same way to measure the current across the board. I am only saying they should put his current rating on the unit.

It very well may run at 20 amps for ever without blowing up which is great. The industry needs to clamp down and make everyone use an amperage rating, again that is all I am saying.

Can't I wonder why half my Festools mark amperage and the other wattage? It does seem strange doesn't it.

Everyone here knows I love Festool so I am not bashing in any way. I just think a wattage number is the wrong way to determine from a consumer standpoint a comparison against other models.

Actually, your formulas is wrong it is really    Power = Current x Voltage.

Wattage is just a unit used to express power. I know it is semantics, but that is the correct formula. The way you have it written mixes a direct measurement with a unit.

Current(I)amps   Voltage (E) or (V).  (P) in  (W)watts or (HP)horsepower  is derived from two units, give us the single measurable characteristic and I will determine the wattage myself. Power and HP conversion are even worse becasue the efficiency of the motor is rarely factored in and the avg is 75% efficiency which Festool may even beat.

Every tool maker should have to use amps. Running current(amps) not start up or full or partial load, on the side that is my point.

Talk to  you next week guys I have 7 inlays popping out and will be buried for a while!

 

[Brice Burrell]

I never said Festool recommend or said it's safe using the 2200 on a 15 amp circuit, they probably recommend a 20 amp circuit. The Festool vac/tool combo are meant to be used on a 20 amp circuit but how many of us use they on a 15 amp? The conversation I had with the Festool staff was about practical usage of the 2200 and the current it draws during use. In this conversation the staff mentioned that the MMC electronics play a big role in keeping the amperage being drawn in most routing applications below 15 amps. Our conversation was more about using the 2200 plugged into a vac that would be plugged into a 20 amp circuit. At no time did we discuss what the safest rated circuit was to use with the OF 2200.

I don't know what the amperage the 2200 really draws, I do know it was the most powerful handheld router I've ever seen (and briefly used), by a long shot.

 

[nickao]

Brice if you say it is the most powerful unit you have held I totally believe it. That's enough for me. Still a waste in a table though 

 

[mwhafner]

Wattage is supposed to be a common calculation but if you look closely you will find there are 18 different ways to calculate wattage and horsepower.

So the current rating is the only true way to know.

The manufacturer should let us find the wattage ourselves by giving us the current rating stamped on the machine.

I think the point is that amperage and wattage are easily interchanged.  The current rating and wattage are directly proportional, at a static voltage. 

The real problem is how the measurement is taken.  Do you want to see peak, startup, idle, or nominal load amperage?  How do you define nominal load?  What are the test conditions? 

Manufacturers each define and test different ways.  Each also rounds at different points in testing, which can drastically impact the posted number. 

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Would not peak amperage occur when the motor is in a stalled condition...with the motor shaft unable to turn at all?

Best,
Todd

 

[mwhafner]

Would not peak amperage occur when the motor is in a stalled condition...with the motor shaft unable to turn at all?

Best,
Todd

Right before it bursts into flames!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

EXACTLY, unless the electronics prevents it....

Todd

 

[bill-e]

The 1010 should be here around 2pm today. 

Quick shipping from Bob and the fulfillment center as I ordered it Tuesday before noon.  I do have another issue though, no more room in my DIY SysPorts

 

[bill-e]

I just received the router and a 2009 catalog   I like the way it feels but haven't tried it yet.

 

[Bob Marino]

I just received the router and a 2009 catalog   I like the way it feels but haven't tried it yet.

Bill,

I would be surprised if the 1010 doesn't become your "go to" router!

Bob

 

[Jim Becker]

Congrats, Bill. The OF1010 is a very comfortable router to use and I agree with Bob that you'll be reaching for it often.

 

[bill-e]

Alright, I'm really not cheap but I ordered the OF1010 believing the edge guide was included and after it shipped I found out it wasn't. 

So I was taking some pictures of the router for a review I'm going to write (I know, it's been done before....but I'm bored) and I got to thinking....

So, I whipped out the edge guide from my OF1400 and combined it with guide rail plate from the OF1010 and I have a functional edge guide complete with dust port.

First I unscrew the knobs on both the OF1010 guide rail plate and OF1400 edge guide, then I take the OF1010 guide plate and mount it on the OF1400 edge guide with the knob from the edge guide.

[attachthumb=#3]

The only physical modification is a small hole drilled in the plastic dust port in order to make clearance for the knob screw.

[attachthumb=#2]

Here it is assembled

[attachthumb=#1]

And attached to the OF1010

[attachthumb=#4]

 

[Brice Burrell]

Great idea Bill! [attachimg=#]