Buyers remorse with Kapex KS120...

[MrBarrel]

Long story short my Makita LS1019 got stolen by a family member. I took the opportunity to "upgrade" to festool Kapex ks 120 as I have been eyeing it for a while, it's twice as expensive as the Makita I had and ngl... it's kinda disappointing. It plunges very shallowly unless it's in the "special position". The stabilizer/washer on the blade is HUGE, takes so much space i feel like im approaching an 8inch saw territory. , the dust extraction is horrible compared to my previous saw and the thing that made me write this post - adjusting the vertical bevel. When 0° degress isn't actually 0°, on my Makita I just used an Alan wrench in an easily accessible place to turn a screw and fine tune a perfect 90° between the table and blade. When I read the manual on how to do it on Kapex I was stunned. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You turn the whole saw front to back, open the back up, loosen two big screws and then... Good luck because there is no fine tuning for anything. I managed to wedge a stick to at least keep the guard open, then I try to balance my square on the table and with one hand lower the blade and adjust it by eye, my left hand on the Alan wrench to tighten the whole thing. Incredibly hard to do. As soon as you let go on the saw it tilts to the right so its not like you can balance it, im considering putting it on my router table and using the positioning bit to gently raise the right side untill its at 90 or maybe ask my father for help so that one person holds the saw and aims and the other tightens the screws... this is a ridiclous thing to do on a 1500$+ saw!

What was 3 second easy adjustment on Makita turned into a two man job with questionable results.

Yesterday I thought I'm getting a significant upgrade in quality and precision and today I'm entertaining the idea of returning it.
The handle is horrible, not made for humans for sure, chimpanzees might have better luck with their long arms. I use my miter saw a lot and grabbing that thing is awkward as hell. Questioning the whole design at this point.

The bevel knob is very cool, the fact that it stays up by itself when changing the bevel is nice, two lasers with precise adjustment -great but it's all secondary to the primary functionality. Idk what to do, maybe just wanna rant. Does anybody have similar woes about their Kapex ? The negative experience i had also lead me to read more about it and apparently its also prone to motor burning... awesome.
Im battling between returning it and going for makita LS1019 or LS1219 again or... toughing it out hoping that at least the build quality is decent and i get more stability during cuts....maybe? i dont know, i really wanted to like it and im looking for an excuse to keep it but its not making it easy.

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks for the report. I went from a 12" DeWalt chop to the 12" Bosch knuckle slider. I have it dialed in for the way I move my arm and can get decent results, but for anything precision, I'm off to the tablesaw. I wish I had an old radial arm saw or a slider for my tablesaw, but not sure either one is really in my future. Saw a video from Matt Estlea on making picture frames, and his default was to use a disk sander with a fixed miter gauge to get that perfect 45º, but as he points out, length became an issue. So, he went to a purpose-built 45º sled for his compact tablesaw. Even a shooting board. And this is just for relatively thin picture frame stock - trying to do anything thicker and/or wider with accuracy with any kind of miter saw I've seen is a real challenge.
I think as woodworkers - furniture makers, cabinet makers, etc. - we need to realize that miter saws are carpentry tools and that we'll need something else (Lion Trimmer?) to get really accurate crosscut angles. The tablesaw sleds work great if your stock isn't too long, but over 4' and they're iffy even on a big cabinet saw without a sliding table. I've toyed with the idea of jigging up a track saw to basically operate as a radial arm saw with a supported track instead of an arm, but I don't have a Festool track saw and wonder if the angle bevel setting can be done accurately enough (maybe).

 

[Hipplewm]

Long story short my Makita LS1019 got stolen by a family member. I took the opportunity to "upgrade" to festool Kapex ks 120 as I have been eyeing it for a while, it's twice as expensive as the Makita I had and ngl... it's kinda disappointing. It plunges very shallowly unless it's in the "special position". The stabilizer/washer on the blade is HUGE, takes so much space i feel like im approaching an 8inch saw territory. , the dust extraction is horrible compared to my previous saw and the thing that made me write this post - adjusting the vertical bevel. When 0° degress isn't actually 0°, on my Makita I just used an Alan wrench in an easily accessible place to turn a screw and fine tune a perfect 90° between the table and blade. When I read the manual on how to do it on Kapex I was stunned. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. You turn the whole saw front to back, open the back up, loosen two big screws and then... Good luck because there is no fine tuning for anything. I managed to wedge a stick to at least keep the guard open, then I try to balance my square on the table and with one hand lower the blade and adjust it by eye, my left hand on the Alan wrench to tighten the whole thing. Incredibly hard to do. As soon as you let go on the saw it tilts to the right so its not like you can balance it, im considering putting it on my router table and using the positioning bit to gently raise the right side untill its at 90 or maybe ask my father for help so that one person holds the saw and aims and the other tightens the screws... this is a ridiclous thing to do on a 1500$+ saw!

What was 3 second easy adjustment on Makita turned into a two man job with questionable results.

Yesterday I thought I'm getting a significant upgrade in quality and precision and today I'm entertaining the idea of returning it.
The handle is horrible, not made for humans for sure, chimpanzees might have better luck with their long arms. I use my miter saw a lot and grabbing that thing is awkward as hell. Questioning the whole design at this point.

The bevel knob is very cool, the fact that it stays up by itself when changing the bevel is nice, two lasers with precise adjustment -great but it's all secondary to the primary functionality. Idk what to do, maybe just wanna rant. Does anybody have similar woes about their Kapex ? The negative experience i had also lead me to read more about it and apparently its also prone to motor burning... awesome.
Im battling between returning it and going for makita LS1019 or LS1219 again or... toughing it out hoping that at least the build quality is decent and i get more stability during cuts....maybe? i dont know, i really wanted to like it and im looking for an excuse to keep it but its not making it easy.

That is why they have a very generous 30day return policy - not every tool is for every person

 

[morts10n]

I went from 2 burned out Kapex to one LS 1019. Way better cutting capacity with slightly less dust extraction on the Makita. Id get rid of my 2nd Kapex in the shop for a decently priced Ls1019 in a heartbeat. Give me your family member's phone number!!!

 

[MrBarrel]

I went from 2 burned out Kapex to one LS 1019. Way better cutting capacity with slightly less dust extraction on the Makita. Id get rid of my 2nd Kapex in the shop for a decently priced Ls1019 in a heartbeat. Give me your family member's phone number!!!

This is horryfing! This does not make me want to keep that thing lol! I dont have the data on the cutting capacity but i legitimately just dont like how kapex doex it, i plunges so little that i sometimes get a little uncut corner on the bottom, closest to the fence. With the addition of that weirdly big washer/blade stabilizer its cutting capacity really isnt impressive.
I have recently been made aware that LS1219 (12 inch blade) exists. What do you think about it ? Do you think there is any truth in saying that bigger blades deflect more ? Or at least is it significant enough that im going to feel it ? Ngl i mostly used my slider for 90 degree cuts and i was pretty satisfied with the precision of LS1019, spot on if you tinker with it a little.

Also i geniuinly feel like dust collection was better on LS1019, I was surprised when i used Kapex because it started coughing up dust to the back of the saw, sure it happened with the Makita as well but i feel like the center port did much better. Its just visual so no hard data but on my makita i split the hose earlier and used two 40mm flex hoses to connect both ports, still one vacuum but i think it saved some airflow.

 

[MrBarrel]

Thanks for the report. I went from a 12" DeWalt chop to the 12" Bosch knuckle slider. I have it dialed in for the way I move my arm and can get decent results, but for anything precision, I'm off to the tablesaw. I wish I had an old radial arm saw or a slider for my tablesaw, but not sure either one is really in my future. Saw a video from Matt Estlea on making picture frames, and his default was to use a disk sander with a fixed miter gauge to get that perfect 45º, but as he points out, length became an issue. So, he went to a purpose-built 45º sled for his compact tablesaw. Even a shooting board. And this is just for relatively thin picture frame stock - trying to do anything thicker and/or wider with accuracy with any kind of miter saw I've seen is a real challenge.
I think as woodworkers - furniture makers, cabinet makers, etc. - we need to realize that miter saws are carpentry tools and that we'll need something else (Lion Trimmer?) to get really accurate crosscut angles. The tablesaw sleds work great if your stock isn't too long, but over 4' and they're iffy even on a big cabinet saw without a sliding table. I've toyed with the idea of jigging up a track saw to basically operate as a radial arm saw with a supported track instead of an arm, but I don't have a Festool track saw and wonder if the angle bevel setting can be done accurately enough (maybe).

Still working on my jobsite dewalt table saw so precise sleds are no good. Its a decent saw but miter slots are sloppy and uneven, even a good miter gauge has mediocre results so for anything that not a rip cut i mainly relied on my miter saw. Still saving up for a proper big boy table saw, think im gonna go with Harvey, it looks incredible.

 

[woodferret]

Also i geniuinly feel like dust collection was better on LS1019, I was surprised when i used Kapex because it started coughing up dust to the back of the saw

It's not even a whole week since I had to post this



As far as adjustability goes, I like my Makitas** better. Kapex (and Festool in general) is one of those ones where you need to take a ruler and feeler gauges to the store or utilize their 30-day. Trust your gut and don't try to fight the adjustments - just return it and look at it again later with clearer eyes.

** I'm getting smaller with the Makitas as years go by. Last one is a LS610Z and fits on a systainer stack. Right size and don't fight deflection.

 

[MrBarrel]

It's not even a whole week since I had to post this



As far as adjustability goes, I like my Makitas** better. Kapex (and Festool in general) is one of those ones where you need to take a ruler and feeler gauges to the store or utilize their 30-day. Trust your gut and don't try to fight the adjustments - just return it and look at it again later with clearer eyes.

** I'm getting smaller with the Makitas as years go by. Last one is a LS610Z and fits on a systainer stack. Right size and don't fight deflection.

I understand that the technique makes a difference but it's also not something I really wanna think about, I accept that working with wood makes dust but it's something that stood out to me because of how highly Kapex has been praised for it's alleged "best" dust collection.
Overall I think I'm heavily leaning towards returning it. I'm toying with it now and it just doesn't seem like a good use of funds, I was up to pay the bill but it just doesn't meet my expectations at all.

 

[rmhinden]

@MrBarrel Sorry you are unhappy with your Kapex. I have had my Kapex 120 since 12/2017. No issues, I am very happy with it.
Except for the lasers, it hasn't needed any adjustments. I think the dust collection is fine, but agree with the conclusions of the posted video.

I have read other commenters who didn't like the handle. I had a Makita chop saw before the Kapex that had a similar orientation handle. I guess it what one is used to.

Bob

 

[peter halle]

I agree that not every tool will fit the wants and needs of everyone, but before you ultimately decide to take advantage of the 30 day return policy, you might want to take a look at the Supplemental Manual. I suspect that your saw is not set to cut deep enough and the manual might help you with that. It is a tool-less operation, and you might find some other things in there to assist you in making your decision pro or con. The motor issue seems to be in the past now since before 2020. Here is a link to the Festool page where you can find the Supplemental Manual: https://www.festoolusa.com/service/owners-manuals#Saws

Peter

 

[ChuckS]

If I were in your situation and felt that the adjustments were not easy to do, I'd return the saw.

I like many features of my Kapex, and so I'd probably get an exchange and give it a second chance. If the second one was still not up to my expectations, I'd look for another brand.

 

[Vondawg]

Agreed…if a tool doesn’t work for me most likely another will ..I’d move on…lots of options out there

 

[usernumber1]

i was going to comment how my kapex is not having any of these dust collection woes, then i remembered i put the saw stache almost the first week. here's some discussions, i just hot glued mine which was custom cut off a roll from aliexpress

HLTNC Engraver 1Meter 100mm 70mm Width 5 7mm Thick Spindle Dust Cover Shoe Brush For CNC Router Engraving Machine Vacuum Cleaner - AliExpress 202216001

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

G

Thread 'Another Kapex + Sawstache Dust Collection Improvement'

Mar 3, 2021

Hello all, I just wanted to post some of my pictures of the saw stache dust collection improvement.

First I bought an extra boot so if I have a need to use my aux fence for tear-out free cuts, I can swap in the original dust boot.

- Festool 200215 Kapex Replacement Dust Extraction Boot
- Fastcap Saw Stache, 2in, 1-ft (https://www.fastcap.com/product/saw-stache)
- 3 x M3 - 10mm screws and nuts
- 3 x M3 washer
- 1/2 Alunimum Flat Bar at 1/16 thickness
- 1/8 Drill Bit

• Goldserve
• Replies: 10
• Forum: Festool Jigs & Tool Enhancements

B

Thread 'Kapex Saw Stache - Best Attachment Method?'

Nov 13, 2020

I bought the 4" Saw Stache for the Kapex but don't seem to find a consensus on which mounting location seems to catch the most dust.  Have any of you tried more than one of these and which do you find works best for you?

• punch holes into the upper piece of the Saw Stache like the OEM rubber piece ... easily switch between OEM and Saw Stache  ;D
• 3D print a new clip which mounts the OEM rubber boot and Saw Stache for easy removal ;D
• drill through the plastic clip ... need a seperate OEM boot
• drill through the OEM rubber boot and mount the Saw Stache somewhere below the clip...

• Bugsysiegals
• Replies: 17
• Forum: Other Tools & Accessories

 

[Cheese]

If dust collection is the issue, then that's a slippery slope as everyone on this forum has modified their Kapex to produce the dust collection results that they like. Some use larger diameter hoses, some use shorter length hoses, some modify the way they cut material to cut down on saw dust, and some add dust collection aids to the Kapex, such as the saw stache.

If the saw adjustment process is the issue, then only you can answer how much work you're willing to go through to adjust the Kapex to produce the results you want. Your Kapex definitely needs to be tweaked as it is leaving a small amount of proud material next to the fence. This simply means the blade needs to lowered slightly...it's an easy adjustment.

The smoking Kapex news is simply old news from 3-4 years ago...it's like reading the headlines today from the Covid years. Believing everything you hear on the internet is a real problem...it's your job to parse the details.

My thought is you should just return the Kapex and get on with the more positive elements in your life.

I've owned my Kapex for the last 12 years and would never sell it. I'd get rid of my table saw before I jettisoned the Kapex. Matter of fact, my radial arm saw has sat unused with a new, never used 12" Forrest blade installed for the last 12 years.

 

[COBill]

The handle on the KAPEX is by far my favorite handle on any miter saw; the horizontal handle on the Makita seems strange and awkward to me now.

I think you don't like the changes and should take advantage of the 30 day return and buy yourself another Makita rather than force yourself to like the KAPEX, which your post indicates you're clearly trying to do here.

 

[ChuckS]

If dust collection is the issue, then that's a slippery slope as everyone on this forum has modified their Kapex to produce the dust collection results that they like. Some use larger diameter hoses, some use shorter length hoses, some modify the way they cut material to cut down on saw dust, and some add dust collection aids to the Kapex, such as the saw stache.

If the saw adjustment process is the issue, then only you can answer how much work you're willing to go through to adjust the Kapex to produce the results you want. Your Kapex definitely needs to be tweaked as it is leaving a small amount of proud material next to the fence. This simply means the blade needs to lowered slightly...it's an easy adjustment.

The smoking Kapex news is simply old news from 3-4 years ago...it's like reading the headlines today from the Covid years. Believing everything you hear on the internet is a real problem...it's your job to parse the details.

My thought is you should just return the Kapex and get on with the more positive elements in your life.

I've owned my Kapex for the last 12 years and would never sell it. I'd get rid of my table saw before I jettisoned the Kapex. Matter of fact, my radial arm saw has sat unused with a new, never used 12" Forrest blade installed for the last 12 years.

Indeed, no matter what miter saw you get, dust collection will never be perfect. Kapex's dust collection is already among the best out there. I use the sawstach rubber boot when I make trench cuts or have a lot of mdf to handle, otherwise I just use the regular one.

For one thing, I have an air quality monitor that I put near the Kapex or Sawstop when I know I'm going to have a long sawing session (half an hour or more). It can tell me if I need to turn on the air filtration system and wear a N95 mask. Except once with using the SawStop (which has both under-the-table and over-the-table dust collection), I have had no need to wear a mask when using the Kapex or Sawstop.

Kapex can be such a precision machine that I once made three-miter-joints with it. If you are getting a new Kapex, make sure you check its sqaureness, flatness, miters, etc.

 

[ChuckS]

The handle on the KAPEX is by far my favorite handle on any miter saw; the horizontal handle on the Makita seems strange and awkward to me now.

I think you don't like the changes and should take advantage of the 30 day return and buy yourself another Makita rather than force yourself to like the KAPEX, which your post indicates you're clearly trying to do here.

For prolonged sawing, the Kapex vertical handle really shines. I usually hold the vertical handle with a "loose" grip (hand saw users would know what I mean), which does two things: a) you avoid tiring your wrist, and b) you minimize any unintentional twisting or side pressure of the saw head.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I guess I got lucky with my Kapex 120 purchase this past holiday season...mine has not presented any issues to-date and is a "yuge" improvement over the CMS I owned since the late 1980s. I actually use the miter saw in my shop now, something I stopped doing years ago in favor of just doing setups on my slider. But I can appreciate the disappointment when the tool doesn't meet others' expectations.

 

[COBill]

I usually hold the vertical handle with a "loose" grip (hand saw users would know what I mean), which does two things: a) you avoid tiring your wrist, and b) you minimize any unintentional twisting or side pressure of the saw head.

That's exactly why Festool designed the KAPEX handle that way: it's inline with the blade and you have to go out of your way to add deflection one way or the other where it's the norm with a horizontal grip.

In the end, it's like driving a different car; you can make it go, but it won't operate exactly like your other one(s).

 

[smorgasbord]

Just a video example of how a poorly adjusted miter saw can mess with a furniture project:

(start at 19:50 in case the link doesn't)

PS: It's a Bosch mitersaw, not a Festool