check this out DF500 offset base

[jimbo51]

What do the table apron spacers do?

I have ordered the original set and will likely add the extra spacers and the XL700 adaptor. This looks like a set up that will make using the Domino even more of a pleasure. I use the Domiplate now, but I just am not fond of using the machine upside down.

 

[grbmds]

I agree with blakjak220, Richard's responsiveness is impressive and their ability to adapt on the fly is awesome.

@ $179 it has me re-thinking buying, especially with the additional spacers that are now available, although they drive up the cost by $95 for all of them. Those spacers make me think I would find a lot more uses for the tool, other than on plywood.

Also, if the center-line does accurately align to the Domino with no need for adjustment it would be something easy to put on/take off without any fuss. Rick Christopherson knows a thing or two about Domino's and Rich @ Woodpecker's post seems to leave the door open to this not being the case. 

I still consider the outriggers cumbersome, especially in my small-shop situation, I don't have room to set the Domino aside with the outriggers attached while juggling sheets of plywood. I can see myself whacking the outriggers while maneuvering it around, and wonder how they will hold up over time.

Need to sleep on this one.

RMW

I have kept my eye on this thread. I have a question, though. For me ,it seems that, rather than offering outriggers that extend out to 54", it would be more useful if the outriggers were made to exten out 24" or 30" to either side from the zero mark. I would rarely have the need to go out 54" but it seems like there would be more need to be able to set the stops equidistant from zero without flipping or resetting it. Maybe I'm the exception and others would have the need to go out all the way to the spec'd 54" on a regular basis. Comments?

 

[semenza]

    The extensions are in sections so you would only need to attach the quantity to get the length needed.  Based on the set having five  12" sections the 54" stated in the description of the set is the total useable length of extensions. If evenly split at the center 27" to each side.

Seth

 

[rmoursund]

I think this is a very interesting system.  My mainly like the fence, which is fixed into position by the spacers and therefore cannot slide into a different position potentially ruining a project.  I ordered my Domino when they first came out, and have always had a problem with the fence slipping unless really cranking down hard on the locking lever - which always worries me.  This fence would solve that concern in cases where the supplied spacers work for the thickness of stock I am using.
I feel the extension arms would work if you have a need for high output when joining plywood pieces together.  One drawback of using the extension arms would be they would need to be reversed for the opposing piece you are joining, which would require calibration as mentioned earlier.  I contacted Woodpecker and their reply was as follows:

"As for accuracy, you’re right that the outrigger needs to flip accurately and repeatedly for it to be useful. Assuming the two threaded holes in the base of your Domino are symmetrically positioned relative to the cutter than yes, switching back and forth won’t be a problem. However that’s impossible to guarantee. Fortunately that can be fine-tuned by offsetting the primary track, the one with the center scale and edge mark. Although it is engraved with a calibration mark, it is adjustable side to side.
What we recommend is a test on scrap stock during initial installation. Once you’ve done that, you’ll know if this primary track needs to be shifted to one side or another for perfect symmetry.
If an adjustment is necessary, it’s likely to be just the width of the line which is easy to judge".

Another question that would be of interest to me is will Woodpecker plan to release spacers of additional sizes, thus allowing you to center the Domino's cut on larger stock, for example 1 1/2 inch stock.
As for me, I plan on ordering the fence, but still considering the extension rails.  Any opinions?

 

[semenza]

There is an expanded spacer set listed on the Woodpecker's page for thicker stock.

Seth

 

[grbmds]

    The extensions are in sections so you would only need to attach the quantity to get the length needed.  Based on the set having five  12" sections the 54" stated in the description of the set is the total useable length of extensions. If evenly split at the center 27" to each side.

Seth

That is true. However, the way each section appears to be marked, the way the set is designed, it appears that they are marked to attach on one side, 6" - 18", then 18" - 30", then 30" - 42", and finally 42" - 54"; not so that you could add on both sides. I'm not sure about this. I couldn't tell from the video. Since they sell additional outriggers, I guess you could do that by buying the additional set, but the cost is alrady high.

 

[Peter Durand]

I agree with blakjak220, Richard's responsiveness is impressive and their ability to adapt on the fly is awesome.

@ $179 it has me re-thinking buying, especially with the additional spacers that are now available, although they drive up the cost by $95 for all of them. Those spacers make me think I would find a lot more uses for the tool, other than on plywood.

Also, if the center-line does accurately align to the Domino with no need for adjustment it would be something easy to put on/take off without any fuss. Rick Christopherson knows a thing or two about Domino's and Rich @ Woodpecker's post seems to leave the door open to this not being the case. 

I still consider the outriggers cumbersome, especially in my small-shop situation, I don't have room to set the Domino aside with the outriggers attached while juggling sheets of plywood. I can see myself whacking the outriggers while maneuvering it around, and wonder how they will hold up over time.

Need to sleep on this one.

RMW

That also got me to rethinking. I rethunk and ordered the base with no case.

BTW, it was because of FOG that I became aware of this option. When I first got the email from them it was nice, but too much for my needs and moved on.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[rmwarren]

What do the table apron spacers do?

I have ordered the original set and will likely add the extra spacers and the XL700 adaptor. This looks like a set up that will make using the Domino even more of a pleasure. I use the Domiplate now, but I just am not fond of using the machine upside down.

They offset the table apron from the leg. Assume the apron is 3/4", you use the 3/4" spacer to mortise the apron on center, then ADD the 1/4" spacer to the 3/4" spacer and mortise the leg. The apron will then be inset 1/4" from the edge of the leg.

No that this cannot be done by just using the domino fence and resetting it between the apron and leg, but with the base/spacers there is no chance of the fence moving. Also the offset distance will always be precise.

I's still trying to convince myself that I need it.

RMW

 

[semenza]

Aaaah, so the table apron spacers are not as limited as the name suggests. They could be used for any similar offset.

Seth

 

[dicktill]

Hi Rich,

I know this is blasphemy on this forum, but could you make (i.e., sell) the kits without the Systainer. Not everyone uses them to store their Festool stuff. Mine sits quite happily in my workbench drawers.

Thanks, Dick

Dick,

Sure. Systainers, even by the pallet load, are quite expensive. I'll figure out a price without it and add it to the web page for those interested. On a side note, we're real close to confirming compatibility with the XL700. It literally showed up at my door while I'm typing this. Should know by tomorrow. The only item needed is a 5mm spacer. However a few folks asked about dealing with thicker material so we machined a separate set of spacers for heavier stock. Those will get added if the tests go OK. And finally, regarding the cost of this thing, I can assure you that no ones getting rich on this or any other tool we make. If we could spread development cost over 10,000 units, the story would be quite different. But this is reality when dealing in micro-markets.

Rich

Hi Rich,

Thanks for adding the "sans-Systainer" options.

What are the "DF 500 Offset Base - Table Apron Spacers $24.99 DF500-OBS-TAS" used for? I see RMW's explanation above, but I don't fully understand it. Does that mean that the legs have to be flush with the inside of the aprons? A photo or two of the setup and useage would be swell.

Regards, Dick

 

[rmwarren]

Hi Rich,

I know this is blasphemy on this forum, but could you make (i.e., sell) the kits without the Systainer. Not everyone uses them to store their Festool stuff. Mine sits quite happily in my workbench drawers.

Thanks, Dick

Dick,

Sure. Systainers, even by the pallet load, are quite expensive. I'll figure out a price without it and add it to the web page for those interested. On a side note, we're real close to confirming compatibility with the XL700. It literally showed up at my door while I'm typing this. Should know by tomorrow. The only item needed is a 5mm spacer. However a few folks asked about dealing with thicker material so we machined a separate set of spacers for heavier stock. Those will get added if the tests go OK. And finally, regarding the cost of this thing, I can assure you that no ones getting rich on this or any other tool we make. If we could spread development cost over 10,000 units, the story would be quite different. But this is reality when dealing in micro-markets.

Rich

Hi Rich,

Thanks for adding the "sans-Systainer" options.

What are the "DF 500 Offset Base - Table Apron Spacers $24.99 DF500-OBS-TAS" used for? I see RMW's explanation above, but I don't fully understand it. Does that mean that the legs have to be flush with the inside of the aprons? A photo or two of the setup and useage would be swell.

Regards, Dick

Dick,

To clarify, picture a typical farm table, like this one:

[attachimg=1]

The apron looks to be inset about 1/2", so assume a 1/2" apron spacer. To accomplish this you use whatever spacer best suits the thickness of the apron and plunge with the fence of the offset base resting on the outside face of the apron. Assuming a 3/4" thick apron you would sue the 3/4" spacer form the original set, which will center the mortise in 3/4" material.

Next add the 1/2" spacer to the 3/4" spacer you are already using, which will in effect raise the height of the offset fence relative to the the domino bit, lowering the domino bit by 1/2". You then place the fence on the outside of the table leg and plunge. This mortise is now 1/2" further from the outside of the leg. When the apron is attached it is inset 1/2" from the outside of the leg.

Clear as mud?  [scratch chin]

RMW

 

[dicktill]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for adding the "sans-Systainer" options.

What are the "DF 500 Offset Base - Table Apron Spacers $24.99 DF500-OBS-TAS" used for? I see RMW's explanation above, but I don't fully understand it. Does that mean that the legs have to be flush with the inside of the aprons? A photo or two of the setup and useage would be swell.

Regards, Dick

Dick,

To clarify, picture a typical farm table, like this one:

[attachimg=1]

The apron looks to be inset about 1/2", so assume a 1/2" apron spacer. To accomplish this you use whatever spacer best suits the thickness of the apron and plunge with the fence of the offset base resting on the outside face of the apron. Assuming a 3/4" thick apron you would sue the 3/4" spacer form the original set, which will center the mortise in 3/4" material.

Next add the 1/2" spacer to the 3/4" spacer you are already using, which will in effect raise the height of the offset fence relative to the the domino bit, lowering the domino bit by 1/2". You then place the fence on the outside of the table leg and plunge. This mortise is now 1/2" further from the outside of the leg. When the apron is attached it is inset 1/2" from the outside of the leg.

Clear as mud?  [scratch chin]

RMW

Okay Richard, I think I have it. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Ummm, wouldn't you just put a spacer between your Domino and whatever backstop you are using to get the offset?  Incra T-track or such?

I was all set to order this, but after reading these comments, and thinking about how I'd use it (and the price) I've decided not to.

What I use for Domino stuff is the Woodpecker's Story Stick Pro.  Getcha 2 sets of the long ones (600 mm?).  Cannibalize the T-square end off both, and use it to bracket your workpiece (assuming less than 48").  The set your spacer flags and mark away.  The last thing you need is a backstop for those face cuts that's just slightly thicker than your work piece.  Still trying to figure that one out.

I'd prefer that Woodpeckers come up with something like this and a better work method.  But that's just me.

Perhaps they can use long versions of the DP track they have, and then include those 90 degree aluminum flags to mark the faces and edges of your work pieces instead of trying to stand the story stick pro on edge to mark the faces or use a saddle square after you've marked it?

 

[grbmds]

Sorry, I still don't get the apron spacer explanation.

 

[rmwarren]

Sorry, I still don't get the apron spacer explanation.

Hmnnn, I'll have to defer to Woodpeckers to 'splain it better., or update their video. 

RMW

 

[semenza]

I'll give the explanation a shot.

    The spacers simply have the effect of shifting the fence up or down (add or remove spacer) a specific amount. They stack on the material thickness spacers.  It would be the same as setting the regular Domino fence to say 20mm, cutting mortises, then moving the fence up 6mm and cutting the mating mortises in order to have the pieces join at an offset rather than flush to each other.

    So for a table apron (joining to the leg) you set the fence up with the proper material thickness spacer. Cut the mortises in the end of the apron. Now unless you want the apron to mate flush with the outside surface of the leg you need  to set the fence a little higher before cutting the mating mortise in the leg. With a regular Domino fence you raise it and reference off the outside of the leg. With the Woodpeckers you add the apron spacer on top of the thickness spacer.

Seth

 

[grbmds]

Thanks, Seth. I understand.

 

[Slartibartfass]

I think I will only get the base as I think the outrigger is a tad awkward to use. I think combining the base with a INCRA precision track and stops that can be aligned based on their precision setting capabilities where you use the stops to align the base and not moving the fence/outrigger makes more sense to me....

 

[rmwarren]

I'll give the explanation a shot.

    The spacers simply have the effect of shifting the fence up or down (add or remove spacer) a specific amount. They stack on the material thickness spacers.  It would be the same as setting the regular Domino fence to say 20mm, cutting mortises, then moving the fence up 6mm and cutting the mating mortises in order to have the pieces join at an offset rather than flush to each other.

    So for a table apron (joining to the leg) you set the fence up with the proper material thickness spacer. Cut the mortises in the end of the apron. Now unless you want the apron to mate flush with the outside surface of the leg you need  to set the fence a little higher before cutting the mating mortise in the leg. With a regular Domino fence you raise it and reference off the outside of the leg. With the Woodpeckers you add the apron spacer on top of the thickness spacer.

Seth

Now why couldn't I say it that clearly?  [not worthy]

Ask me what time it is and I will tell you how to build a watch... [doh]

RMW

 

[grbmds]

Richard,

You're an engineer, right? You explanation was very precise and complete. A more general explanation, more oriented to concept, sufficed for me. The precision would come if I bought the jig and while using it the first few times. Then, the specifics would make more sense to me. Thanks, though. Sometimes the precise, technical, detailed explanation is needed. And you are very innovative.

Randy