CMS vs Regular Router Table?
- Thread starter Rocky
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Brice Burrell
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A few quick thoughts, portability, dust collection, perfection integration with your Festool routers. Also, the miter gauge is perfect for routing angled pieces.
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Rocky said:
[ban] [poke]
- Three year warranty
- Like all Festools, exceptional dust extraction, arguably better than any other router table on the market
- All of the components are built to work together. It's not a table from one company, a router from another, a lift from another, a fence from another. You can pull it out of the box and it's ready to rout
- The GE model can be collapsed for use on a benchwork or on the floor, with the legs unfolded you can use it on the shop or transport it to the jobsite
- Extreme precision out of the box, you can dial things in to 1/256"
- Top mounted lift, so you can adjust the bit height from the top of the table
- The sliding table is SAH-WEET. The miter gauge is awesome too and makes angled pieces a breeze.
- Festool service, quality, system integration
- Either the GE (freestanding) or VL (attaches to MFT/3) are the same height as the MFT/3 and Kapex UG extension which can be used for additional stock support.
There's some reasons. Those in the rest of the world who have one can probably add to it.
E
ericbuggeln
Guest
Could you raise a panel with the 1400 in the CMS? Seems like lack of 2200 would be the biggest con. Looks cool if you take your router to work with you, Eric
If you wanted to do raised panels you could use a vertical bit. Most of the common horizontal bits will not fit the opening of the 1400. Perhaps the opening is larger on the module.
peter
peter
E
ericbuggeln
Guest
It looks real cool and Brice told me personally that he was impressed and thats enough for me, but seems like it was made for 2200 and the 1400 and 1010 inserts were just an after thought? I will be the first to bring it up, but what do you do with a 1010 in a router table? Is this the first 1/4" router ever to be mounted in a table? Eric
mouppe
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I have the CMS router module in an MFT table, and it's absolutely wonderful. Sold the old router table soon after getting it.
It is possible to change the bits above the table so you can use panel raising bits in the CMS. For such a large bit you would normally raise the bit gradually after each pass until you reach the profile you want. The problem is the aperture in the cms is too small to lower the bit into the table so you can't do this. However, you can overcome this by using a sacrificial piece of wood underneath the panel, and then moving the fence backwards to expose more wood to the bit. A horizontal creep up to the final profile instead of a vertical approach if you like.
I made a few videos on the CMS and router module and put them on youtube. If you search for cms festool router on the site you'll find them.
The positives of the CMS system are many, and Shane mentioned a few. The negatives are small details and easily dealt with.
No way this table was designed for the 2200 and not the full Festool family of routers. There are two holes on the base plate which accept a pin screwed to either the 1010 or the 1400/2200 routers to help align the router centrally on the plate. This pin is identical for the 1400 and 2200 but different for the 1010 and the hole is a different size. The rings which centre the router in the table are also unique to each router.
Clearly the CMS does not have UL approval for the 2200 router in North America, so I imagine the rings belonging to the 2200 will not be included in the setup.
It is possible to change the bits above the table so you can use panel raising bits in the CMS. For such a large bit you would normally raise the bit gradually after each pass until you reach the profile you want. The problem is the aperture in the cms is too small to lower the bit into the table so you can't do this. However, you can overcome this by using a sacrificial piece of wood underneath the panel, and then moving the fence backwards to expose more wood to the bit. A horizontal creep up to the final profile instead of a vertical approach if you like.
I made a few videos on the CMS and router module and put them on youtube. If you search for cms festool router on the site you'll find them.
The positives of the CMS system are many, and Shane mentioned a few. The negatives are small details and easily dealt with.
No way this table was designed for the 2200 and not the full Festool family of routers. There are two holes on the base plate which accept a pin screwed to either the 1010 or the 1400/2200 routers to help align the router centrally on the plate. This pin is identical for the 1400 and 2200 but different for the 1010 and the hole is a different size. The rings which centre the router in the table are also unique to each router.
Clearly the CMS does not have UL approval for the 2200 router in North America, so I imagine the rings belonging to the 2200 will not be included in the setup.
For Richard and Nigel's points about panel raising...
I do not (yet) have the router module for the CMS but I do have the CMS Base Unit.
I do my panel raising on my homemade router table and have the same problem that one cannot lower the tool below the table surface. So, I have a special piece of polished MDF that I screw on to my router table top with a hole large enough for the panel raising bit. The MDF piece is cut through the panel raising hole so that the fence can be moved into position. I am sorry that I have no picture but the MDF piece appears to have a semi-circular hole on one side where the panel raising bit would sit.
I am saving up for the Router CMS insert with the sliding table of course - it might take another year.
Peter
I do not (yet) have the router module for the CMS but I do have the CMS Base Unit.
I do my panel raising on my homemade router table and have the same problem that one cannot lower the tool below the table surface. So, I have a special piece of polished MDF that I screw on to my router table top with a hole large enough for the panel raising bit. The MDF piece is cut through the panel raising hole so that the fence can be moved into position. I am sorry that I have no picture but the MDF piece appears to have a semi-circular hole on one side where the panel raising bit would sit.
I am saving up for the Router CMS insert with the sliding table of course - it might take another year.
Peter
I got myself the CMS-OF and a OF2200 this spring and I've toyed with it a couple of times now. The problem I see with it, is the setup of the whole thing itself. I find it a bit hard to adjust the fence and it's a pain to set up the router on the module. I think this is partially a training issue though. Once I've used it some more, I should be able to get it done rather quickly - but I still think it is a lot more complicated than I expected.
I am sorry that it will by then be too late for you but when I get mine I will make a video and see if I can help people set it up more quickly - like in my second TS55R video.
Peter
Peter
Stone Message said:
I can see how that works Peter. To be honest in my case the bit lowers enough to be perfectly usable as is.
You might want to fast track the sliding table purchase for use with your TS. I rarely use my miter saw on site now as I just love using the sliding table - very precise and no dust.
I did not realise that the sliding table would be so good when used with the saw - it is interesting that having been to quite a few shows/demos that I have never seen the sliding table used in saw mode. I will now look carefully at my Festool priority list (and perhaps make sure that I always make the early morning tea for my budget controller!).
Thanks.
Peter
Jesse Cloud
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Shane Holland said:
Shane,
Are you talking about dialing in the bit height or the fence location or both?
Thanks,
Jess
BTW,
Wish you would consolidate this with the "Consolidated CMS questions thread"!
If I went with the CMS it wold also mean a 2200 because I have neither. What is that going to cost with all the extras, $2000? I can see it working for me because I probably would just leave the 2200 in the CMS 95% of the time. So putting it in and taking it out would happen so infrequently that the fuss would be negligible. And when I did take the 2200 out I'd have the finest router in the world in my hands. But there's the catch. I really don't need that much hand held router.
I can get an awful lot of router table for $2000. Best motor available, best fence available, best lift available, best top available. I'd have to do some serious shopping. The Jessem Mast-R-lift Excel II, the sliding top from MCLS, do I want a cast iron top? Do I want to look at the Incra Positioner? What a about a table saw mount. Would anything be as good as a custom table I design myself for myself? Lots to think about.
If I already had a 2200 it would make it easier. But I don't so I'd have to wait and see what it's all going to cost me.
I can get an awful lot of router table for $2000. Best motor available, best fence available, best lift available, best top available. I'd have to do some serious shopping. The Jessem Mast-R-lift Excel II, the sliding top from MCLS, do I want a cast iron top? Do I want to look at the Incra Positioner? What a about a table saw mount. Would anything be as good as a custom table I design myself for myself? Lots to think about.
If I already had a 2200 it would make it easier. But I don't so I'd have to wait and see what it's all going to cost me.
I also get 100% dust collection on my traditional router table. I think the big plus is the sliding table/miter, integrated hold downs and adjustable fence. The one negative I see is the lack of a sacrificial fence for zero clearance applications. I would be all in if and/or
1) 2200 could be used with it
2) TS capability
1) 2200 could be used with it
2) TS capability
AlexThePalex
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People should keep in mind the CMS system is meant to be MOBILE.
I don't get why people compare it to a steady router table. You don't put your jigsaw next to a bandsaw, do you?
It is a great unit for somebody on the road, probably the best out there, but for that to work certain trade-offs have been made that make it less desirable for people who work in a shop.
First of all, the basic unit is pretty small. Really small. When you have a steady router table in the shop, you have a much bigger and nicer surface. There is an expansion wing for the CMS, but it leaves a crevice where a workpiece can get stuck. If you're mobile, you take that for granted because you need the unit to be in small pieces for portability. If I was in a shop, I wouldn't accept that. I would prefer to have one big continuous surface. I would also prefer the large amount of different 3rd party accessories you can get for router tables over the limited range of what Festool offers. An incra fence seems a lot more flexible to me, when you look at all the different kinds of set ups you can get with them, and more comfortable to work with. A steady table also offers more possible storage space for your bits and accessories right at hand.
The sliding table for the CMS .... it is very nice, but personally, I see more use for it with sawing. I think Festool mostly intended it for sawing, but since it is there you can also use it for other things, like routing, but I don't think it adds that much when you use it for routing. When you are on the road, the sliding table is a pretty irritating part to take with you, because of the big size and awkward sliding part that keeps moving around by itself, and I'd guess a lot of folks who have it leave it at home, unless they're really sure they're gonna need it.
So in short, if you want to be mobile, the CMS is THA BOMB!!!
But if you're in the shop, get a normal router table.
I don't get why people compare it to a steady router table. You don't put your jigsaw next to a bandsaw, do you?
It is a great unit for somebody on the road, probably the best out there, but for that to work certain trade-offs have been made that make it less desirable for people who work in a shop.
First of all, the basic unit is pretty small. Really small. When you have a steady router table in the shop, you have a much bigger and nicer surface. There is an expansion wing for the CMS, but it leaves a crevice where a workpiece can get stuck. If you're mobile, you take that for granted because you need the unit to be in small pieces for portability. If I was in a shop, I wouldn't accept that. I would prefer to have one big continuous surface. I would also prefer the large amount of different 3rd party accessories you can get for router tables over the limited range of what Festool offers. An incra fence seems a lot more flexible to me, when you look at all the different kinds of set ups you can get with them, and more comfortable to work with. A steady table also offers more possible storage space for your bits and accessories right at hand.
The sliding table for the CMS .... it is very nice, but personally, I see more use for it with sawing. I think Festool mostly intended it for sawing, but since it is there you can also use it for other things, like routing, but I don't think it adds that much when you use it for routing. When you are on the road, the sliding table is a pretty irritating part to take with you, because of the big size and awkward sliding part that keeps moving around by itself, and I'd guess a lot of folks who have it leave it at home, unless they're really sure they're gonna need it.
So in short, if you want to be mobile, the CMS is THA BOMB!!!
But if you're in the shop, get a normal router table.
There are people with very small workshops who find something like the CMS useful as it can be moved, even folded, out of the way. There are also guys and gals who cannot afford to have one bit of kit for on site and something else in the workshop.
Peter
Peter
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