Do I need to use a Festool Vacuum with the Domino?

[rjwz28]

I'm wondering if I can use my shop vac or my 1 1/2 hp dust collector with a hose adapter to use with the Domino.  I was just going to order it tonight and it hit me that what if I needed that vacuum only and how much more it would add to this purchase.

Mahalo,
Rob

 

[Timtool]

You certainly need A vacuum with the domino, or else your mortises are filled with sawdust and then you need to clean them.
There is no reason, besides practicality of the auto on-off switch, that would force you to use a festool vac and nothing else.
So go ahead i guess, but let me tell you that my festool vac is my most used powertool in the shop, and if i were to lose all my tools it would be the first thing i would buy again.

 

[NoBreyner]

The Festool CT Mini was my first Festool purchase and would also be my first tool replaced if anything should happen to my shop.  Like Timtool said you'll negate the speed of the domino by needing to clean out every mortise you cut.  Also keep in mind that if a biscuit cutter can make a lot of coarse dust very quickly on just two or more plunges how much dust can the domino make?  It's going to be an uphill battle keeping the shop clean.

 

[upscale]

There is no reason, besides practicality of the auto on-off switch, that would force you to use a festool vac and nothing else.

I second the auto on-off switch. Until I bought my CT22, I just couldn't comprehend the convenience of this device. Of course, you can buy a standalone on-off switch for $40 or so, but either way, my suggestion is to get one into your shop if you don't have one already.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm wondering if I can use my shop vac or my 1 1/2 hp dust collector with a hose adapter to use with the Domino.  I was just going to order it tonight and it hit me that what if I needed that vacuum only and how much more it would add to this purchase.

You can use any vac you want. If you don't mind turning your vac on and off by hand, the auto on/off feature of a Festool vac is not important. So if you already have a vac you can use that and there's no need to shell out a couple of extra 100 $. But at some moment in the future you'll realise you want to anyway.

 

[greenMonster]

iVac Automated Vacuum Switch
i-socket 110m Tool and Vacuum Switch

First is handy as it can draw power for the vac and tool seperately.
Second is good for portability
or just fully accept the koolaid and get a CT  ;D

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Rob

If you can afford a Festool extractor then buy one - you will not be disappointed. Yes, your shop vac will do but it will not be quite the same.

I have several dust collection machines. I have a CTL 26, a Numatic NVD 750 and an old Dyson vacuum cleaner. I have recently sold my chip collector as the Numatic does a great job working through a separator. I have also got rid of my air filtration system (made by Jet) as the Festool machines have such brilliant dust collection port design.

But, of all the collectors that I have or have once owned I am most impressed with the CTL 26 - oh, and you can empty the bags quite easily if the cost is an issue.

Peter

 

[ccarrolladams]

I'm wondering if I can use my shop vac or my 1 1/2 hp dust collector with a hose adapter to use with the Domino.  I was just going to order it tonight and it hit me that what if I needed that vacuum only and how much more it would add to this purchase.

Mahalo,
Rob

Over the years we have discussed the pros and cons of using non-Festool dust extractors with various Festools. We have also discussed the use of traditional dust collectors with various Festools.

All of the Festools are designed for use with high velocity dust extraction. Traditional dust collection is based on low velocity and high volume. This is appropriate with traditional fixed machines where use of 100mm (4") or larger hoses are practical. Draw enough air through a table saw or thickness planer and the dust collection can be most satisfactory. However, it is very difficult to increase the velocity so a small hose is practical.

There are a whole lot of aspects about the Domino joiner which are unique. They absolutely need effective dust extraction. Without correct extraction the mortise clogs with dust. That will harm the expensive cutters. Of course all that dust will eventually need to be removed so that not only the Domino floating tendon can be inserted, but that glue does not mix with dust. This has traditionally been a PIA issue with traditional M&T joinery. Cleaning the mortise has always been a real problem.

In my shop we devote at least 8 person hours daily to the Domino, so over they years we all have gained a lot of experience. For example, we do not usually turn off the motor on the Domino between separate mortises. My personal Domino is connected to a foot switch which can latch in the on position, so if I do decide to stop the motor I can tap the foot switch without reaching for the switch on the Domino.

Very early in my use of the Domino I found there is no disadvantage to reducing the setting on the CT. Festool CTs are fairly quiet compared to shop vacs. I want to preserve what hearing I have left, so before I start using a Domino I put on hearing protection. Therefore I do not power my Domino's foot switch through a CT. I connect it directly to an outlet. I simply start the CT manually and shut it off after finishing a session of making mortises with my Domino.

Because it is not necessary to reduce the volume of the dust extraction, nor to turn it off while using a Domino, this is a Festool which will work swell with non-Festool dust extractors or shop vacs with enough velocity.

The catch is that the Domino needs an exceptionally supple and flexible hose which can make a very secure connection to the dust port. This is designed to fit inside the Festool 27mm tool fitting. My experience is that trying to create some sort of adapter to use a larger shop vac hose will make use of the Domino needlessly frustrating.

The suggestion I have made to those who already owned a shop vac and did not own a Festool CT before buying a Domino is to buy a Festool 27mm hose with the Domino. The vac end of Festool hoses are the same as nearly all shop vac connectors. This way the connector to the Domino is a Festool 27mm part.

Later, if you do decide to buy a Festool CT, it normally ships with a 3.5m x 27mm anti-static hose. Follow my suggestions and you already own one of those. My own favorite Festool dealer, and most Festool dealers I have talked to, are willing to trade a 36mm hose for the included 27mm hose for the slight difference in price.

Festool cleaning sets all work best with the 36mm hose, as do the larger routers, the TS 55 and TS75 and the planers. So, there are different hoses for  different jobs. Best of all Festool hoses easily connect to most shop vacs.

 

[Sam Murdoch]

I was all over the road on this same question when I started down into Festool land. I was persuaded to buy a Midi with my TS 55  - came with a package price - and I must say that was good advice. You will invariably add more Festools as you realize the value of each purchase. It is hugely satisfying that you can sand or plunge your domino without making a dust cloud. I use these tools in occupied homes all the time, including my own, without concern of leaving a dust trail. PRICELESS! The Midi is a good small vac. The TS55 is the only Festool I use that could use more suction, don't know if a bigger vac would eliminate that issue. Not a deal breaker but just something to keep in mind. Used with the domino or with the RO125 and ETS150/3 sander and the OF1010 router,  the Midi is more than up to the task. Sooner or later you will want the Festool dust collector, that's all I'm sayin'  [smile].

 

[Brice Burrell]

I was all over the road on this same question when I started down into Festool land. I was persuaded to buy a Midi with my TS 55  - came with a package price - and I must say that was good advice. You will invariably add more Festools as you realize the value of each purchase......

If you're considering a Festool vac now be sure to buy the Domino and vac as a "package" to get a discount.  Most online Festool dealers have the package deals clearly listed on their websites, if you buy from a brick and mortar be sure to ask for the package discount.

 

[Brice Burrell]

....The TS55 is the only Festool I use that could use more suction, don't know if a bigger vac would eliminate that issue. Not a deal breaker but just something to keep in mind.....

Sam, there is no appreciable difference in collection with the larger vacs and or a larger hose.

 

[JLB builders LLC]

....The TS55 is the only Festool I use that could use more suction, don't know if a bigger vac would eliminate that issue. Not a deal breaker but just something to keep in mind.....

Sam, there is no appreciable difference in collection with the larger vacs and or a larger hose.

So on my CT26 E I just got, the Hose that came with it is just as good as a larger diameter hose? I was thinking of getting a larger hose like my rigid 12 gal vac. Not necessary? What about tools like a table saw that are set up for a larger hose?

 

[ccarrolladams]

Sam, there is no appreciable difference in collection with the larger vacs and or a larger hose.

Since the recent changes to the Mini and Midi with the same rating for air movement as the CT26, CT36 and CT48 the only difference in extraction is the size of the bags. Personally I do not like the way the hose attaches to the Mini or Midi, but obviously many Festool owners do like that system.

Clearly my extensive experience with the TS55 differs from others with equal experience.  I bought my first TS55 as a combo with a CT22 in January 2006. With the CT I received a 3.5m x 27mm AS hose. As I started to study the then current Festool USA catalog, I saw there were cleaning sets which came with a 36mm hose. I went back to my dealer to buy a cleaning set. The talented salesman who had sold me my Festools was talking to a customer who already was a big-time Festool user. We were introduced. I said I wanted a cleaning set. Both the salesman and the satisfied client suggested I buy an AS 36mm hose. They assured me it would not harm the cleaning action, but they found the larger hose increased the dust collection from the TS55.

My reasoning then remains the same today. I use the TS55 on a guide rail in a straight line. It is not like sanding or routing where 360 degree free movement is an advantage.

That same afternoon I tried my TS55 with the larger hose. Sure enough, there were several advantages:

1. For equal dust collection compared to the 27mm hose, I could turn the CT22 down a lot, so the vac was quieter.

2. With the CT22 near max, the collection was even better.

3. The 36mm AS hose is just enough stiffer than the 27mm AS hose that it does not snag as easily on the guide rails.

4. Because the 36mm tool end goes over the outside of the TS55 dust port, it actually stays connected far better. Also, the dust does not build up on the outer end of the hose fitting as it does with the 27mm. The thinner outer end of the TS55 dust port is downstream so it is constantly sucked clean.

Since 2006 I have helped a whole lot of folks gain confidence with the TS55 and later the TS75. Even away from my shop when I have a TS55 I always have a CT 22 or CT26, with both a 36mm AS and 27mm AS hose. I do not recall anyone new to using a TS55 who did not consider the 36mm hose an advantage.

Yes, I do use the optional cat 491 750 dust collection cover plate for the TS55.

Clearly each of us has our own experience. Your mileage will vary. All I can do is share my experience.

 

[Brice Burrell]

....The TS55 is the only Festool I use that could use more suction, don't know if a bigger vac would eliminate that issue. Not a deal breaker but just something to keep in mind.....

Sam, there is no appreciable difference in collection with the larger vacs and or a larger hose.

So on my CT26 E I just got, the Hose that came with it is just as good as a larger diameter hose? I was thinking of getting a larger hose like my rigid 12 gal vac. Not necessary? What about tools like a table saw that are set up for a larger hose?

My comments apply only to use with the TS55.  I find the larger hose a very worthwhile investment for routing, planning, general clean up and use with other larger power tools.   

 

[FulThrotl]

I'm wondering if I can use my shop vac or my 1 1/2 hp dust collector with a hose adapter to use with the Domino.  I was just going to order it tonight and it hit me that what if I needed that vacuum only and how much more it would add to this purchase.

Mahalo,
Rob

the festool vac is not cheap, and worth it.

my loss of reason and decent into festoolishness started with wanting
a good shop vac that was portable, quiet, and didn't behave like an
indoor leaf blower.... it goes in my work truck, and goes everywhere
when i'm not in industrial settings. and sometimes when i am.

i have a systainer 5 on top of it with hoses and tools, and a couple
other 'tainers from time to time, and it's proven it's worth time and
time again.

i've ran across other people bringing shop vacs into closed spaces,
and i immediately offer to let them use mine, so i don't have to breathe
the crap coming out of their machines.

you have to use extraction with a domino. festools extract, other
vacs suck.

the smaller hose will work fine. the larger hose is necessary if you
are running a kapex or a larger router. the 2200 router needs
a big hose.

as mentioned above, there is a sale on stuff now... if it works
into your budget, buy the sander and try it for a month.

if you aren't satisfied with it, return it and get your money back.

bet ya a cheeseburger you don't return it.

bet ya a second cheeseburger you don't run your 1.5 horsepower
system as much either. the newer generation of vacs is even better
and has a higher rating for effectiveness.

enjoy your domino....

 

[EWTHeckman]

Since the recent changes to the Mini and Midi with the same rating for air movement as the CT26, CT36 and CT48 the only difference in extraction is the size of the bags.

According to the 2011 Festool catalog, the Mini and Midi both max out at 99 CFM (2807 l/min), while the larger vacs can pull 137 CFM (3900 l/min). Has that changed since the catalog came out?

When I started planning Festool purchases, I was simply going to stick to my old Craftsman shop vac. Eventually I realized that the variable suction was important enough for sanding that I decided to get one. It only took a few minutes of working with and using the CT 26 for me to be convinced that I absolutely made the right choice. My old shop vac suddenly found itself retired.

You can read some of my first impressions on the CT 26 here.

 

[AlexThePalex]

So on my CT26 E I just got, the Hose that came with it is just as good as a larger diameter hose? I was thinking of getting a larger hose like my rigid 12 gal vac. Not necessary? What about tools like a table saw that are set up for a larger hose?

I am not so convinced about the use of Festool vacs with a table saw. I have the Festool CS70 tablesaw and it comes with a Y-splitted hose which runs as a 27 mm hose to the blade guard and a 36 mm hose underneath the motor, and the other end plugs into my CT26. But I'd call the dust collection only mildly satisfactory, while my set up is completely as Festool envisioned it.

I assume that on non-Festool table saws the collection only gets worse. Basically, table saws need more suction from a bigger system, like a dust collector with a 4'' hose.

The problem with a table saw is that it spews dust on two sides, above and under the table. With the Y-splited hose, suction is split in two, and thus also reduced on each end.            

But for portable table saws, you got to have something and in that case, a Festool vac is as good as they get.

 

[ccarrolladams]

According to the 2011 Festool catalog, the Mini and Midi both max out at 99 CFM (2807 l/min), while the larger vacs can pull 137 CFM (3900 l/min). Has that changed since the catalog came out?

When I started planning Festool purchases, I was simply going to stick to my old Craftsman shop vac. Eventually I realized that the variable suction was important enough for sanding that I decided to get one. It only took a few minutes of working with and using the CT 26 for me to be convinced that I absolutely made the right choice. My old shop vac suddenly found itself retired.

You can read some of my first impressions on the CT 26 here.

As has been discussed here on FOG and in several press releases from Festool USA, subsequent to the printing of the 2011-2012 Festool USA catalog the specs on the Mini and Midi were changes, along with making a HEPA filter standard. All the Mini and Midi currently being shipped to dealers pull 137 CFM (3900L/min) just as do the CT26, CT36 and CT48.

 

[EWTHeckman]

As has been discussed here on FOG and in several press releases from Festool USA, subsequent to the printing of the 2011-2012 Festool USA catalog the specs on the Mini and Midi were changes, along with making a HEPA filter standard. All the Mini and Midi currently being shipped to dealers pull 137 CFM (3900L/min) just as do the CT26, CT36 and CT48.

That's odd. I don't see anything on Festool USA's site about power upgrades on for the Mini and Midi; just the new HEPA filters and fleece bags. They're still listed at 99 CFM, and  I couldn't find anything in their blog. I also didn't see anything official in FOG, though admittedly my search returned too many results to check them all out. Could this have been a NAINA upgrade?

 

[ccarrolladams]

That's odd. I don't see anything on Festool USA's site about power upgrades on for the Mini and Midi; just the new HEPA filters and fleece bags. They're still listed at 99 CFM, and  I couldn't find anything in their blog. I also didn't see anything official in FOG, though admittedly my search returned too many results to check them all out. Could this have been a NAINA upgrade?

I admit searching for threads even a couple of weeks old here on FOG is frustrating. Minutes ago I could not find the message from Shane Holland, the Festool USA E-Commerce director on the subject of increased air handling with new Mini and Midi.

So, in case Shane himself does not respond early Monday, here is is direct e-mail address:

sho@festolusa.com

Apparently there have been delays up-dating the Festool USA website. Also as Shane made clear, the new version of the Midi and the Mini in the USA have the same cat number as the 99CFM versions. The outer shipping cartons have no distinctive marks, but of course Festool USA can confirm by looking up the serial number.