Domino + butt joints for carcasses???

[clisbyclark]

Is the domino strong enough to use on butt-jointed plywood for cabinet carcasses?  I've always used dadoes which I hate setting up but am a bit suspicious of domino-only construction-especially on the bottoms of upper cabs.  Thanks for your input.

 

[honeydoman]

I ve been using domonos for butt joints for several months and there are strong for cabs.  I make bookcase units with cab below.  I usually use 3 dom for the bookcase 11 1/4 wide and 4 for the bottoms at 23 1/4 wide.  I also use several pocket holes screws to crank it together instead of clamping and also glue the joint.  works fantastic.

please note to space your pocket hole screws so they are not going through the domonio.

once the glue sets up strong box

 

[Brice Burrell]

Check out my site, I show the concept. How to use the Domino to build cabinet carcasses.

 

[Dan Clark]

Also, you might want to check out this thread: "Euro Cabinets 101-2 A Beginner's Guide" (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1315.msg12393#msg12393).  Between Brice's site and this thread, you should have a pretty good start.

Dan.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I've built a few cabinets using 3/4" (Chinese) birch plywood from HD using only butt joints with 5 - 6 dominos per 11 3/4" joint length.  No problems whatsoever.  They have been hanging on French cleats loaded with tools for a few months without any problems.  I also used them to build a large (36" W x 26" Deep x 84" H) storage cabinet case - again no problems.  Here I made the mistake of additionally creating a continuous stopped dado/rabbet thinking that would provide more bearing area and help resist racking.  Instead the dado and mortise edges were not sufficiently spaced apart, resulting in some breakout between them.  The good news is that all of this mistake is hidden upon assembly and the dominos are more than strong enough.  My biggest problems have been disassembly after dry test fitting assembly due to tight fitting of the dominos, and applying glue to all the mortises and dominos quickly and completing assembly of the glued members.  I have taken to lightly sanding the flat sides of the 5 mm dominos to ease their fit, and sanding a bevel on the ends to facilitate assembly.  Trust the domino joints; they are strong and square.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

HI,

  Awesome!  Being able to do this type of assembly without making dadoes, is probably enough all by itself to get me to buy the Domino sooner rather than later.

Seth

 

[Tim Sproul]

Being able to do this type of assembly without making dadoes, is probably enough all by itself to get me to buy the Domino sooner rather than later.

Yup.

For joints where you can't reference off the edge, I just cut a piece of excess material as a spacer and then reference off the base of the Domino.  Add

 

[Eli]

Being able to do this type of assembly without making dadoes, is probably enough all by itself to get me to buy the Domino sooner rather than later.

Yup.

For joints where you can't reference off the edge, I just cut a piece of excess material as a spacer and then reference off the base of the Domino.  Add.....

Add what? Pickles? Ketchup? Time? Love? WHAAAAAT?!!!

 

[honeydoman]

I've built a few cabinets using 3/4" (Chinese) birch plywood from HD

dave, hopefully its the birch that is around 46 bucks a sheet.  and not the sandply from china they sell for 30-40 bucks.  the cheaper stuff will delaminate and fall apart and split on the ends.  the 46 bucks a sheet stuff is solid and usually no voids.

 

[msrdnr]

Based on my personal experience, I'll warn you of one issue that has nothing to do with the strength of the joints. The benefit of dados is that they ensure the plywood stays straight. Without the dados you're relying on straight marked lines and that can get dicey if you're using anything but very straight material. Some of the plywood I've used recently has been anything but straight, which caused problems with assembly.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I've built a few cabinets using 3/4" (Chinese) birch plywood from HD

dave, hopefully its the birch that is around 46 bucks a sheet.  and not the sandply from china they sell for 30-40 bucks.  the cheaper stuff will delaminate and fall apart and split on the ends.  the 46 bucks a sheet stuff is solid and usually no voids.

Most have been made from the less expensive material, which costs less than $30/4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" material.  You're right about it having a few voids and the possibility of a few delaminations, but so far, no problems.  The voids have been very small and localized, less than the area of any domino mortise I have made.  I wasn't aware that HD carries any better grade, unless the 3/4 sheets with oak facing have a better core.  For more projects where I don't want to risk any compromise in materials quality, I am using metric sized (about 5' x 5') baltic birch from a traditional lumber yard, which costs me ~$55/sheet.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

Based on my personal experience, I'll warn you of one issue that has nothing to do with the strength of the joints. The benefit of dados is that they ensure the plywood stays straight. Without the dados you're relying on straight marked lines and that can get dicey if you're using anything but very straight material. Some of the plywood I've used recently has been anything but straight, which caused problems with assembly.

Hi,

    Good point, especially on wider stuff.

Seth

 

[honeydoman]

I've built a few cabinets using 3/4" (Chinese) birch plywood from HD

dave, hopefully its the birch that is around 46 bucks a sheet.  and not the sandply from china they sell for 30-40 bucks.  the cheaper stuff will delaminate and fall apart and split on the ends.  the 46 bucks a sheet stuff is solid and usually no voids.

Most have been made from the less expensive material, which costs less than $30/4' x 8' sheet of 3/4" material.  You're right about it having a few voids and the possibility of a few delaminations, but so far, no problems.  The voids have been very small and localized, less than the area of any domino mortise I have made.  I wasn't aware that HD carries any better grade, unless the 3/4 sheets with oak facing have a better core.  For more projects where I don't want to risk any compromise in materials quality, I am using metric sized (about 5' x 5') baltic birch from a traditional lumber yard, which costs me ~$55/sheet.

Dave R.

i used to make cab out of that material also and ran into a few problems, switched to a the better grade at hd.  it is like the oak, but birch and sells for 46 a sheet and works very well.  I use baltic also for drawers, and would use more of it if it cam 4x8.  the 5x5 does not fit in van and have to either rip off 12 " or put on top of van, pain

but for the extra 16 bucks or so, and I usually use 2-4 sheets the extra (less than 100) for the better stuff is well worth it. plus I always add to my quote.

Kreg

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Based on my personal experience, I'll warn you of one issue that has nothing to do with the strength of the joints. The benefit of dados is that they ensure the plywood stays straight. Without the dados you're relying on straight marked lines and that can get dicey if you're using anything but very straight material. Some of the plywood I've used recently has been anything but straight, which caused problems with assembly.

Hi,

     Good point, especially on wider stuff.

Seth

I placed 11 5 mm dominos across ~ 26 inches for each corner of the box.  Not much room for for the plywood to deviate from the line on which the domino mortises.

Dave R.

 

[Tim Sproul]

Being able to do this type of assembly without making dadoes, is probably enough all by itself to get me to buy the Domino sooner rather than later.

Yup.

For joints where you can't reference off the edge, I just cut a piece of excess material as a spacer and then reference off the base of the Domino.  Add.....

Add what? Pickles? Ketchup? Time? Love? WHAAAAAT?!!!

Add the thickness of a sheet for certain applications.

Add a chamfer to the dominos when your assembly requires lots of pieces be glued together at once (I like using kickers and runners for drawers - none of that sissy metal glide schtick   ;D  But I don't do this for a living either ;D).  If it isn't close to flat, throw out the plywood and get a new supplier .  There is flat plywood out there .

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Flat plywood, or any wood seems rare at most of the places I can buy from as a hobbyist.  Even the materials supplied in my area by a lumber supplier who has been supplying the Amish for >100 years seems to be getting plywood (including European manufactured Baltic birch) that is not truly flat.  Likewise for cherry and oak veneered 4' x 8' plywood (most is poplar veneer core), although it is not usually far from flat.  I simply plan on having to force it a bit.  And I often buy lumber in rough of semi-finished state so I can joint and plane it flat myself.

Dave R.