Dust extractor question

I actually have no need for portability.  I was looking at the vacuums only because they were the only ones I found that were Hepa, and from my understanding, Hepa is advised when working with Ipe.  I am open to other systems, of course. I don't want to pay a crazy amount of money, but safety is the most important thing, because it is in my house.

Any suggestions?
 
Fed said:
I actually have no need for portability.  I was looking at the vacuums only because they were the only ones I found that were Hepa, and from my understanding, Hepa is advised when working with Ipe.  I am open to other systems, of course. I don't want to pay a crazy amount of money, but safety is the most important thing, because it is in my house.

Any suggestions?
. Go with a vacuum or DC unit that you can dependably get supplies for... Filters get old and clogged, bags need to be emptied. To give you an example, many of the 1 or 2 micron canister filters on Dust Collectors look the same but are not the same mounting diameters when it comes time to replacing them. Sometimes you can get a very similar or same rated filter outside of the original equipment manufacturer like a Filter Maker Distributor. But other times they offer something 'close' to your original filter that then requires you to make an adapter to bridge whatever is needed for a tight, leakfree fit.
What I'm getting at is that parts get discontinued and you have to hunt down a replacement part. Not everyone is as friendly as Festool for older model support.
 
    The original CT Mini / Midi were 99cfm. Then they received a sizable increase to 137cfm , I forget what year. In my 2014 catalog they are listed at 137cfm same as the 26,36,48. 2015 catalog is not at hand, but in the 2016 catalog and on the USA website they are shown at 130cfm. I am guessing this slight reduction is due to the introduction of the tapered hose. The 130 is still a big difference compared to the original 99cfm.

  I had a 99 and currently have 137 Minis. Though the 137 certainly makes a difference the 99 was still quite good.

    The CT-Sys is 106cfm.

    The 99cfm units and the first few years of the 137/130 units did not have the tapered hose.

Seth
 
Leaky - we are in total agreement that you should buy more collector than you think you need.  Tool collections are always expanding , and a lot of guys end up buying things twice. 

There is always that notion that getting what I can afford today is better than nothing though.  Which is often what happens when presented with the price of "better" options.

Jed - I'd recommend getting the biggest cyclone dust collector you can afford. Oneida is the gold standard, but there are others that are serviceable.  Grizzly offers a lot of bang for the buck too.  Most don't start out there , but that's the yardstick in my view.

A lot of woodworkers start out with a single stage collector like leaky mentions. Search for Harbor Freight dust collector and read til you're cross eyed.  Under $200 on sale and many modify them with a cartridge filter and a Thein baffel and its all the dust collection they'll ever need for a basement shop for a total cost of $300 +/-  .

If you get a real dust collector ,not a shop vac, you really need to add some capacity to the DW745 in order not to choke the thing.  See breathing through a straw above.  The only real way to do this is through the guard - which a lot of guys hate.

See these guys for a a tailor made dewalt solution:http://www.thesharkguard.com/index.html

Use a wye and split your dust collector's port to run two hoses, one 2.5" to the blade shroud outlet and another 2.5" to the blade guard.  3" or 4" would be even better.  That will make the DW745 as good as it can be at collecting dust.

Oh, while you're at it you'll prob. want to buy a remote control to turn the collector on and off.  Most of the Cyclones come with them standard, but fairly rare on the single stage units. 
 
The max air flow is always quoted with no hose connected. The hose will significantly lower the air flow and then the tool even more.
 
[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - thanks for the breakdown.  Obviously the motor/turbine was changed when the cfm's on mini/midi were upped from 99 to 137.

Do you know if the turbine has been changed again now that rating is 130 cfm ?

If enlarging the first few feet of hose's diameter decreased the performance - then why do it at all?  Why not just keep the 27mm orig. hose and the better flow ?[scratch chin]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]  - can you shed any light on the subject and min/midi's eveloution ?
 
antss said:
[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - thanks for the breakdown.  Obviously the motor/turbine was changed when the cfm's on mini/midi were upped from 99 to 137.

Do you know if the turbine has been changed again now that rating is 130 cfm ?

If enlarging the first few feet of hose's diameter decreased the performance - then why do it at all?  Why not just keep the 27mm orig. hose and the better flow ?[scratch chin]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]  - can you shed any light on the subject and min/midi's eveloution ?

I don't if the motor / turbine was changed. And just guessing on the hose.... I could be completely wrong on that as pointed out  by Bohdan about the measuring method. Just seemed that the hose change and the 130cfm coincide time wise. But that doesn't mean they are necessarily related. 

Seth
 
SRSemenza said:
    The original CT Mini / Midi were 99cfm. Then they received a sizable increase to 137cfm , I forget what year. In my 2014 catalog they are listed at 137cfm same as the 26,36,48. 2015 catalog is not at hand, but in the 2016 catalog and on the USA website they are shown at 130cfm. I am guessing this slight reduction is due to the introduction of the tapered hose. The 130 is still a big difference compared to the original 99cfm.

  I had a 99 and currently have 137 Minis. Though the 137 certainly makes a difference the 99 was still quite good.

    The CT-Sys is 106cfm.

    The 99cfm units and the first few years of the 137/130 units did not have the tapered hose.

Seth

I'm thinking that the upgrade in CFM to the mini/midi came at the same time as the larger CTs went from the 22/33 to the 26/36.

The other difference (other than the tapered hose) between the mini/midi and the larger CTs is the 90 elbow where the hose connects. Surely that reduces the CFM on those smaller machines.
 
antss said:
[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - thanks for the breakdown.  Obviously the motor/turbine was changed when the cfm's on mini/midi were upped from 99 to 137.

Do you know if the turbine has been changed again now that rating is 130 cfm ?

If enlarging the first few feet of hose's diameter decreased the performance - then why do it at all?  Why not just keep the 27mm orig. hose and the better flow ?[scratch chin]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]  - can you shed any light on the subject and min/midi's eveloution ?

I believe that it's unchanged at 130 CFM, but I'm going to check with our product manager to confirm and get a little more insight.
 
Thanks guys for giving me so much to consider.  I had read until my eyes hurt, and thought I had it narrowed down, but now it looks like I was on the wrong track. 

What I had not considered was the high cfm needed, the cfm decrease by the cyclone, and the need for more than one vent on the saw to actually capture the dust from the saw.

It seems that these considerations rule out the Festool specifically, and vacuums in general. Correct?

As far as a real DC system, do they come with Hepa? Of not, are something like the two below acceptable for Ipe? The first one mentions "The B|flux:1 comes standard with a 1 micron canister providing filtration of 99.97% of particles between 0.2 to 2 microns" which is similar to the Hepa requirements.
http://www.atlas-machinery.com/Laguna/Collectors/MDCBF1110C1Mhttp://www.atlas-machinery.com/1hp-dust-collector-with-short-canister-650cfm/
 
Looks like a nice 1 HP unit. With this type of dust collection and that 9" impeller, keep your hose length going to your Saw short and a straight shot to help prevent CFM losses.
Modify your saw dust collection around your blade as needed once you get the DC unit installed and going and have cut wood for a bit to see where you're falling short on dust capture .
 
TylerC said:
antss said:
[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - thanks for the breakdown.  Obviously the motor/turbine was changed when the cfm's on mini/midi were upped from 99 to 137.

Do you know if the turbine has been changed again now that rating is 130 cfm ?

If enlarging the first few feet of hose's diameter decreased the performance - then why do it at all?  Why not just keep the 27mm orig. hose and the better flow ?[scratch chin]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]  - can you shed any light on the subject and min/midi's eveloution ?

I believe that it's unchanged at 130 CFM, but I'm going to check with our product manager to confirm and get a little more insight.

I got a bit more information. The Mini and Midi were originally 99 CFM. When they were redesigned, they become 130 CFM. However, they were incorrectly published as 137, but those were actually 130.
 
Thanks for the skinny Tyler.

Two years of publishing the wrong spex though ?  [eek]
 
[member=64464]Fed[/member] - asking whether a real dust collector comes with HEPA is loaded question.

It assumes that HEPA filtering makes a real dust collector, and many people feel that's not the case - or even possible.

A HEPA filter is an option and like any other "option" whether a machine comes with one is really dependent on marketing.  Speaking of which , be careful with Laguna's.  Their pitch is expertly crafted to lead masses into thinking their filter is really great , maybe even HEPA. However their details - the 99.97% @  .2 -2.0 micron range is where the deal falls apart. 2.0 mic is pretty big when we're talking turkey about fine filtering. It's adequate in general and for most people - but it ain't HEPA.  99.97% @ .3 mic is the standard in the U.S.  99.97 @ .5 or 1 or 2 micron is not HEPA !  Usually when somebody gives you a range like, .2. - 2 micron they're playing games to mask their product's shortcomings.

Besides;  the bigger factor is really filter efficiency, not particulate size.  Meaning , how many sq. inches or feet of fabric area does your filter have ?

If you're looking at small single stages you really should consider this with a cartridge filter from Wynn.  It may not be sexy like a Laguna, but it's got twice the power and costs half as much including the filter below.  Less, if you catch a sale.
http://t.harborfreight.com/2-hp-ind...869.html?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/

And
https://wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/

Also think about where the inlet is on your collector. That top mount of the Laguna's isn't very convenient for most shops.  The Generals location is preferred by most people.

 
I did not mean to ask a loaded question.  What i meant by a "real DC" is that it was a dedicated unit, not a vacuum.  And my questions was rather whether such a dedicated unit comes with Hepa?  My assumption was that it did not, and could not, as I cannot find one.

I guess, my real question is whether a dedicated DC is good enough for Ipe, and if I do in fact need Hepa.

As far as your suggestions, I did come across both those, and they look great.  But again, is it good enough for Ipe.  Also, I cannot find it online in Canada at all.  Any idea if it is sold in Canada?
 
Dedicated dust collector should be just fine for your saw and ipe with a blade guard that has a port for  a vac line.

I wouldn't get overly concerned with HEPA.

If you're really worried, wear one of these along with the dust collection set up on the saw:http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/elipse-p100-dust-mask.aspx

Harbor Freight delivers to Canada I believe.  I'm not sure about the added cost though.  Wynn definitely delivers to Canada.

Remember to budget in all the flexible hoses, fittings , clamps , remote control,  ect.... that you'll need to hook all this stuff up.   
 
Oneida sells dedicated machines with HEPA filters.  Any thing from hobby to industrial.
 
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