Even Dewalt are doing it now

[Tinker]

If Dewalt solves the repeated rips problem then they will have an edge over Festool, but then they also sell table saws for that operation as well.

For me, I do find it takes a second or so longer to make rips on longer materials with my ATF 55 than with a table saw. 

OTOH, when I get into very small rips of less than 1/4" in thickness, rips i always did on my bandsaw, it is quicker and safer to do them with my TS55 (compared with table saw) with no aprehension that pieces are going to be flying around.  And the cuts are just as accurately repeatable.

Last fall, i retired my old Craftsman TS to the barn and do all of my croascutting and ripping with the ATF 55 on the MFT 1080.

I don't see anything in the DW saw of this discussion that makes me drool  
Tinker

 

[Zaphod]

If my observation is correct, Dewalt made a a ingeniously simple improvement to the guide rai: It looks to be bidirectional with a splinter guard on both sides.  Would help with the Festool problem of different blade kerfs, could devote one side to a specific blade.  Frankly, Festool should simply standardize blade width to avoid the problem altogether. 

 

[Frank-Jan]

As a reaction to Dave's and Bob's posts:
One of the things I like about festool is their "ekat" site, I stumbled upon the link on the Dutch festool site a while back, and it has been of great help since. It's a site where you can download the exploded view- drawings of their tools, with a list of every compont, including the part number and price.
In this case: I have the mfs 400, should I need the longer rails of the mfs 700, I just download the drawing for the mfs 700, see which parts I need and make a list (item name and partn?, most times I even print out the exploded views with the items needed) to order them at one of the dealers.
ridicilously long link to the ekat-website

Note that if you follow the link above, the prices will be applicable to the Dutch market, maybe you can ask festool to get the link for the American pricing.

I used the ekat method a few times to order small stuff, like one of the thumbscrews of my tablesaw extension, replacements for the rubber feet, even small parts for systainers (one of the hinge things somehow popped out and got lost)

I agree with Zaphod on the saw kerf width/splinterguard issue.

BTW, I really like the feature on this forum that warns you that another post has been made while typing your reply.

 

[semenza]

If my observation is correct, Dewalt made a a ingeniously simple improvement to the guide rai: It looks to be bidirectional with a splinter guard on both sides.  Would help with the Festool problem of different blade kerfs, could devote one side to a specific blade.  Frankly, Festool should simply standardize blade width to avoid the problem altogether. 

Hi,

    Now, THAT is the perfect use of the double sided rail!

Seth

 

[Fred West]

Frank-Jan, thank you for the "ekat" site. I can very much see how helpful it will be in the future for me. Fred

 

[Spike]

Made in China or Mexico no doubt.

That set up might be made in their Italian plant. Thats where they make their small slider. But I understand your feeling on the China/Mexico comment loud and clear.

The only thing I saw on the DeWalt video that I wanted was the carry bag for the guide rails.

 

[semenza]

Made in China or Mexico no doubt.

That set up might be made in their Italian plant. Thats where they make their small slider. But I understand your feeling on the China/Mexico comment loud and clear.

The only thing I saw on the DeWalt video that I wanted was the carry bag for the guide rails.

Hi,

    Festool makes a carry bag.

Seth

 

[d.epstein]

If my observation is correct, Dewalt made a a ingeniously simple improvement to the guide rai: It looks to be bidirectional with a splinter guard on both sides.  Would help with the Festool problem of different blade kerfs, could devote one side to a specific blade.  Frankly, Festool should simply standardize blade width to avoid the problem altogether. 

Hi,

    Now, THAT is the perfect use of the double sided rail!

Seth

The ez smart system by Eurekazone is bidirectional and with antichip protection on both sides of the blade.
The ez universal base offers antichip protection even off the guide rails.

 

[Steveo48]

Yeowza, did you pay attention to how much the VAT added to the cost of the saw?  Plust the saw itself is not cheap, I just checked, the exchange rate is 1 British pound = 1.9486 U.S. dollars, that makes the saw and rail about $550.00 and the VAT ads another $96.00.

 

[CharlesWilson]

Frank-Jan, thank you.

They really do have part numbers for everything!  (At least in Europe.)

Charles

 

[Frank-Jan]

Made in China or Mexico no doubt.

No, if you check here you'll see that the sawblade is made in the USA and the saw itself in Germany.

Since the patent expired about a year ago (not sure but it's been about a year I guess) there were a few lower quality, lower price machines introduced by a few companies (spero, and another one, which I can't remember at the moment), which didn't have the electronic speed control, nor the brake.
A while later the makita was introduced, which had most of the ts 55's features, and something added (the anti-tilt feature, which I recon is not that needed (hardly do any 45? bevel cuts)). Makita went shopping at Festool (Tanos) and sell it in a systainer. I'm not really sure, but I think the makita doesn't have a riving knive, which is something I would miss.
The things I like about the DeWalt saw are the right-angle attachment, the quickgrip-style clamps; the plunge system with the links, so there is less risk off the saw hopping up in the back; the guiderail bag that opens all the way, so it's easier to get the rails in and out and if I noticed correctly, the plunge-depth setting without detents, so you can set the depth off cut more acurately.
Some off the advantages of the ts55 over the DeWalt are the spring loaded riving knive and the better standard blade (48 vs 40 teeth)

 

[wcmlutz]

You can get to the ekat site from the festoolusa Site and see the prices in US Dollars. They even have items like the DFK700 parts lists, even though the tool has not yet been released in the US.

Mike

 

[Frank-Jan]

Frank-Jan, thank you for the "ekat" site. I can very much see how helpful it will be in the future for me. Fred

I couldn't at first, untill someone at the Australian festool forum asked about an exploded view drawing, I remembered the link, and we found out that several tools are basicly the same, so if there is a tool you'll only need rarely, and you have a tool that's similar, you can just order the parts that are different, and have both tools at your disposal.

I use it mainly as a time saver now, instead of needing to explain to a salesperson what I need, wait 'till he finally understands/or not, then till he finds the part numbers /or not; I just hand over a printout, and look if he copies the numbers the right way to the order form. Means less time in store, more time at work. (I mostly save up little stuff to order all at once, the festool guy delivers at the store about once a week)

 

[Peterm]

First post, so hi to everyone, and thanks for a great forum.

Yeowza, did you pay attention to how much the VAT added to the cost of the saw?  Plust the saw itself is not cheap, I just checked, the exchange rate is 1 British pound = 1.9486 U.S. dollars, that makes the saw and rail about $550.00 and the VAT ads another $96.00.

The DeWalt still works out cheaper than a TS55 and guide rail here in the UK; the Festool is typically around ?380 UKP (~$744) for the set, though I paid that much for the saw alone when I bought mine a couple of years ago. VAT here is 17.5%; VAT-registered business users can claim the VAT back, but once registered have to add VAT to all their invoices, which adds a big chunk to the final bill - especially if you're doing domestic work i.e. in peoples houses.

FWIW, UK prices (for Festool, anyway) seem to be pretty much on par with (mainland) European prices e.g. Germany, ?UKP/Euro fluctuatioons aside, so we don't feel too hard done by - until we see the prices of Festool in the US that is! Throw in the current two-for-one exchange rate as well, and it's not just the Festools that are green!

Cheers, Pete.

 

[Corwin]

If my observation is correct, Dewalt made a a ingeniously simple improvement to the guide rai: It looks to be bidirectional with a splinter guard on both sides.  Would help with the Festool problem of different blade kerfs, could devote one side to a specific blade.  Frankly, Festool should simply standardize blade width to avoid the problem altogether. 

While a guide rail with a splinter guard on both sides has some advantages, it also comes equipped with some disadvantages too.  The backside, if you will, of the Festool Guide Rails is straight -- Useful for checking the alignment of two or more connected Guide Rails and other basic alignment tasks.  Additionally, any bracket, fixture or jig to locate the guide rail can register off this backside.  A design with splinter guards on both sides is a different approach, but don't know if I would consider it any better...

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    This discussion of double sided guide rail has led me to believe there are + - to both ways.  I acn think of others that have not been mentioned yet.

Seth

 

[Spike]

Made in China or Mexico no doubt.

That set up might be made in their Italian plant. Thats where they make their small slider. But I understand your feeling on the China/Mexico comment loud and clear.

The only thing I saw on the DeWalt video that I wanted was the carry bag for the guide rails.

Hi,

    Festool makes a carry bag.

Seth

Thank you Seth,
I didn't know that. Appreciate it.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

One point I would disagree (although slightly) with you on is your last statement "Or will they continue to operate with the same approach as before new competitors (DeWalt and Makita) arrived?", if by that you are implying that Festool kinda just makes the tools, serves em' up to the customers, like em' or not/take it or leave it. Festool invests heavily in marketing research, product development, analyzing competitor's models, getting feedback (including, I bet, feedback from this board) twistin' and tweakin' before a tool comes to market. I just wish they'd do it faster!
As for the new Dewalt and Makita saws, I think new compettion is a very goood thing, but Festool  has had competition in Europe with a "guided saw system" for a looooooong time from Mafell. And Mafell make a damn nice saw!
Again, Festool does listen, just wish they's listen faster ;D.

Bob

Bob,

I am wondering and hoping that Festool is going to step up their own game, like true pros often do when the competiton steps up theirs.  I understand that Festool puts a lot of their resources into R&D.  But sometimes I wonder if they are listening as much as I think they should to "the voice of the customer."  (My employer considers that the most important product and service feedback information that is available, as is responding to those voices in a timely manner.)  So we agree that "faster" is important, too.  That Christian O. follows comments on FOG is to the benefit of all, however he is not the whole of Festool (parent company) management.  Sometimes, I wonder how carefully Festool is paying attention to the development of  their own tools, particularly given their excellent concept of providing a system.  "Twistin' and tweakin' " as you stated it.  An example is the CT 22 E and its expensive handle and boom arm accessories.  As delivered without accessories, the cord can be quickly, easily and neatly wrapped around the cord holder.  After installing the handle kit, it is much more difficult to neatly wrap the cord and push the end into the retainer slot.  (Don't they check the sizes of their components for compatibility?)  After intalling the Boom Arm (which is, except for the plastic swivel fitting that is prone to warp, overall, a great functional improvement), it is impossible (at least for me in a reasonable time) to wrap the power cord around those storage hooks and push the end into one of the retainer slots to hold the cord in wrapped position.  I don't understand how Festool's R&D and marketing people authorized release of those accessories without realizing that the power cord storage spacers included with the handle kit that standoff the cord storage hooks need to provide increased standoff to provide sufficient capacity to hold the cord when the Boom Arm is installed.  Didn't anyone ever check the actual assembled combination to realize the interference/restriction points render the cord storage "system" nearly useles (after spending over US$200 on these accessories)?  Many statements about excellent product design and integration are negated when a customer or his wife finds that the cord cannot be easily neatly stored, especially after paying so much for accessories she doesn't understand the need for!!

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

      Actually I think the CT cord winding ears (?) are too small to begin with.

Seth

 

[Eli]

I've never once used them, I coil it and throw it in the Hose Garage.