Feds tackle tablesaw safety - Higher prices are on the way?

[Brice Burrell]

Personally, I wouldn't retrofit my saw with it, because I'm the only one who uses the saw, and I know myself and my work habits well enough to know that I'll never need the technology.  Both the blade guard and riving knife on my saw are in place exactly as they came from the manufacturer, and I'm always very conscious about where the blade is in relation to my hands.....

I'm sorry Bob, but this is exactly the arrogance Greg was referring to.  I'm sure the thousands of guys that have lost fingers in table saw accidents felt the same way.

EDIT: Bob, I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's just that I'm being realistic about how and why workplace accident happen.  They happen because of freak accidents, momentary laps in judgment from fatigue, ignorance or just plain carelessness.  No one is perfect, all of the time.   

 

[joraft]

I will probably get a lot of flack for saying this but I think most of you who rail against mandated safety regulations do it out of arrogance. Let's face it, we all tend to think we are smarter than the average dude. Nobody needs to tell us how to think or act.

Greg, perhaps some of the the resistance comes from cyniscism, especially from those who have been around for a while.

All to often, those making the regulations turn out to not even be AS smart as the average dude.   [big grin]

.

 

[Sparktrician]

I wonder, how many of us would buy it if SawStop technology was available as a reasonably priced retrofit to our existing table saws? By reasonably priced, I would think something in the $250 range for the retrofit kit, plus the cost of the cartridge.

I'm not so sure that I'd bother retrofitting, but I'd most certainly welcome the introduction of a portable table saw that incorporated the SawStop technology, and did so with little weight penalty for those of us that lug them around.  

[smile]

 

[BobKovacs]

I'm sorry Bob, but this is exactly the arrogance Greg was referring to.  I'm sure the thousands of guys that have lost fingers in table saw accidents felt the same way.

I beg to differ.  The arrogance I see is the "I don't need a guard- they just get in the way" kind of stuff, and that's what leads to lost fingers in most cases.  There's probably no data to support this, but I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of fingers that are lost with the guard and riving knife in place, with a push stick being used, and with the operator not being distracted during the operation is in the single digits (no pun intended) at best.  

I'm not saying that I'll never never lose a finger (though I hope I don't), but by following proper safety practices, by chances are much slimmer than if I didn't follow them, which is the much more common case amongst construction workers- let's face it, our industry is notorious for unsafe practices, especially in the residential sector.  

We all know that wearing a seatbelt dramatically lessens the chance of injury in a crash, just like using a SawStop dramatically reduces the chance of injury when using a tablesaw.  If seatbelts weren't automatically included in every car produced, or if only one car company offered them because they held the patent on them, how many of us would run out to buy that manufacturer's vehicles, vs. being as safe as possible driving our current vehicles???  If a retrofit kit for seatbelts was available for your current car that didn't have them, how many of us would run out to buy the retrofit kit??

 

[Brice Burrell]

I will probably get a lot of flack for saying this but I think most of you who rail against mandated safety regulations do it out of arrogance. Let's face it, we all tend to think we are smarter than the average dude. Nobody needs to tell us how to think or act.

Greg, perhaps some of the the resistance comes from cyniscism, especially from those who have been around for a while.

All to often, those making the regulations turn out to not even be AS smart as the average dude.   [big grin]

.

John, that's me for sure.  It's just that I'm going to let my cynicism or arrogance get in the way of good judgment.  Like I said, making this type of safety device could very well save me from a terrible accident someday.

 

[BobKovacs]

EDIT: Bob, I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's just that I'm being realistic about how and why workplace accident happen.  They happen because of freak accidents, momentary laps in judgment from fatigue, ignorance or just plain carelessness.  No one is perfect, all of the time.     

No offense taken, and I fully understand.  The question is, what about all the other potential accidents in the shop?  Where does it stop?  If the government mandates SawStop technology on tablesaws, what about routers?  Jigsaws?  Portable circular saws?  Drills?  All have the ability to hurt or maim because of "freak accidents, momentary laps in judgment from fatigue, ignorance or just plain carelessness".

 

[joraft]

Here's a point that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet.

Stephen Gass developes the Saw Stop technology and protects the idea with so many patents it is nearly impossible for anyone to produce a competing product. He then works tirelessly to get his product mandated by government regulation.

Is this a guy with a sincere concern for the safety of others, or a just a guy with a brilliant business plan?  [smile]

.

 

[BobKovacs]

Here's a point that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet.

Stephen Gass developes the Saw Stop technology and protects the idea with so many patents it is nearly impossible for anyone to produce a competing product. He then works tirelessly to get his product mandated by government regulation.

Is this a guy with a sincere concern for the safety of others, or a just a guy with a brilliant business plan?  [smile]

An excellent point.  You've got to wonder, considering the guy is a patent lawyer by trade....... ???

 

[Brice Burrell]

No offense taken, and I fully understand.  The question is, what about all the other potential accidents in the shop?  Where does it stop?  If the government mandates SawStop technology on tablesaws, what about routers?  Jigsaws?  Portable circular saws?  Drills?  All have the ability to hurt or maim because of "freak accidents, momentary laps in judgment from fatigue, ignorance or just plain carelessness".

Okay, I'm glad you weren't offended.  As for mandates for other tools, we'll undoubtedly seen them as the as technology makes them feasible.  As I already posted, I'm a cynic too when it comes to governmental regulations but I'm trying to put that aside and take a broader look at this subject.  

 

[Sparktrician]

Here's a point that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet.

Stephen Gass developes the Saw Stop technology and protects the idea with so many patents it is nearly impossible for anyone to produce a competing product. He then works tirelessly to get his product mandated by government regulation.

Is this a guy with a sincere concern for the safety of others, or a just a guy with a brilliant business plan?  [smile]

 

It looks more like a goodly bit of greed than anything else.  

 

[GPowers]

Is this a guy with a sincere concern for the safety of others, or a just a guy with a brilliant business plan?  [smile]

It is a GREAT business plan!

I understand He tried to license the technology  first to existing manufactures, and could not get anyone to bite. So he built his own saw. Now getting the government to mandate the use of his technology will make him a tone of money as every one will need to pay him a license fee!

 

[Brice Burrell]

Here's a point that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet.

Stephen Gass developes the Saw Stop technology and protects the idea with so many patents it is nearly impossible for anyone to produce a competing product. He then works tirelessly to get his product mandated by government regulation.

Is this a guy with a sincere concern for the safety of others, or a just a guy with a brilliant business plan?  [smile]

.

What's the difference so long as everyone is benefiting from this?

 

[joraft]

What's the difference so long as everyone is benefiting from this?

Makes no difference to me, Brice, I love all types of success stories.  [smile]

I'm afraid I won't be benefitting from this, I have a Felder slider that is sure to outlast me. (even WITH electricity  ;D)

 

[tiralie]

What's the difference so long as everyone is benefiting from this?

Makes no difference to me, Brice, I love all types of success stories.  [smile]

I'm afraid I won't be benefitting from this, I have a Felder slider that is sure to outlast me. (even WITH electricity  ;D)

Unfortunately it may backfire. Anything the government regulates, generally comes with the threat that they will also do the same to prices.
While I think it's not a bad strategy, the SawStop inventor may wish he never leveraged regulations to increase profit. Even if it wasn't his intention to make more money, this regulation will kill SawStops' business as they will have no unique sales proposition (USP) and they will get be overtaken by more efficient, lower cost producers.
Tim

 

[BobKovacs]

Even if it wasn't his intention to make more money, this regulation will kill SawStops' business as they will have no unique sales proposition (USP) and they will get be overtaken by more efficient, lower cost producers.
Tim

But now, instead of making a few hundred bucks each on a few thousand saws a year, he'll be making probably the same amount on each of hundreds of thousands of saws a year, since all the manufacturers will have to buy the technology from him.  It'll be great- at least until his patents expire......

 

[GPowers]

.... this regulation will kill SawStops' business as they will have no unique sales proposition (USP) and they will get be overtaken by more efficient, lower cost producers.
Tim

If the Saw Stop guy still has the patten, all the lower cost guys will still need to pay the Saw Stop guy a license fee for the technology. So we get out of the manufacturing business, and all the day to day operation headaches and sits back a collects his license fees.  

 

[bruegf]

While I don't think the government should be mandating this, I do think it should be on all saws.    I believe in it enough that I bought a Sawstop last spring.  Haven't regretted it for a moment, its a top rate saw and the safety factor is a huge plus, even though its the main reason I replaced my previous saw.  I earn my living with my fingers - hard to type without them, and anything that increases the odds of keep all ten of them is worth it.

While I've never even had a close call on the table saw and so far I've had to replace a blade and cartridge because the metal miter gauge fence accidentally came in contact w/ the blade (barely scratched the incra gauge fence so the $200 blade and cartridge cost saved a $20 fence), I'm still glad I have it and would do it again.

Hopefully all the naysayers will remain lucky and not need it, but for my money, I'll use a saw with the technology just in case.  It does amaze me that all the absurd arguments against seat belts and anti-lock brakes are being recycled for this.  I'm sure we'll eventually wonder why it repeated for this technology.

Now if they could just invent a technology that would prevent stupid people for texting while driving...........

Fred

 

[junk731]

Makes no difference to me, Brice, I love all types of success stories.  [smile]

I'm afraid I won't be benefitting from this, I have a Felder slider that is sure to outlast me. (even WITH electricity  ;D)

I'm with John on this and like him, my Felder has a long life ahead. I would always like a personal choice. The Sawstop is a well made saw and the technology is great, just don't shove it down my throat. Gass being a patent lawyer, I wonder where or who the idea originally came from.

John

 

[chrisrosenb]

This is very simple to solve, it will not cost any saw owner a dime & no one will ever be cut again be a saw.
Ban the use of blades on saws.

You can call me names. Of coarse will disguise it by calling me arrogant.
I am a grown up. I can take care of myself. I do not need a nanny to tell me what to eat, to buy health insurance, or what tools to buy.
For those that can not get through the day without a nanny, I really feel sorry for you.
It is a good thing people like you were not around a few hundred years ago. If there were, we would still be in the stone ages. The only tools that would be available today would be sticks & rocks.  

 

[GPowers]

This is very simple to solve, it will not cost any saw owner a dime & no one will ever be cut again be a saw.
Ban the use of blades on saws.

You can call me names. Of coarse will disguise it by calling me arrogant.
I am a grown up. I can take care of myself. I do not need a nanny to tell me what to eat, to buy health insurance, or what tools to buy.
For those that can not get through the day without a nanny, I really feel sorry for you.
It is a good thing people like you were not around a few hundred years ago. If there were, we would still be in the stone ages. The only tools that would be available today would be sticks & rocks.  

So goes the Festool CMS product line in the USA....