Michael Kellough
Member
[member=40772]Holmz[/member] the belt sander is from the Holz-Her factory.
Festool and mafell
- Thread starter PA floor guy
- Start date
Peter Halle said:
I'd personally be seriously concerned by a hostile takeover of Mafell too. I too am a fan not only of free competition within the power tool marketplace, but of cooperative & collaborative alliances between corporate entities too, but only so far as these relationships don't evolve into anticompetitive oligarchies.
Take the takeover of Holz Her's power tools division. Prior to the takeover, the company had an extensive, high quality of range of plunge & rail saws that competed on relatively equal terms with the other industry leader, Mafell. They also produced an interesting little compound saw that Festo marketed as "their" Symmetric. There were cooperative relationships with the Atlas Copco group producing AC, Milwaukee & AEG belt sanders, plus similar relationships with Metabowerke & Wuerth. Plus former build & later licencing arrangements with Robert Bosch. This is possibly a mere suggestion of the true depth of cooperative relationships that existed prior to the Festo "Anschluss". This in addition to HolzHer's own native branded product.
The net result of the Anschluss? No ongoing commercial collaborative relationships at all that I'm aware of. I've also heard that yet another subsequent result was the total destruction of the entire parts inventory of the former Holz Her product that the new owners discontinued! I cannot confirm with any veracity the truth of these claims, but if true, to "blackmail" former Holz Her owners & users into new product verges on the unconscionable.
No more superior quality Wuerth, Metabo, AEG, Atlas Copco or Holz Her belt sanders either: only "Festool" branded product at about twice the price previously charged for the alternatives. This isn't the only example of the deleterious consequences of the annexation of other middle European power toolmakers either. There's Narex, Kraenzle et al.
Should the same or similar situation occur to such a fine manufactory as Mafell I contend that it would, at least from a competitive and collaborative, not to mention laissez faire perspective, be an unmitigated disaster for tool users. The thought that some of these fine tool lines could be "dumbed down" or worse still disappear from the catalogue together with their spare parts production & inventory, forcing users into such inferior alternatives makes me shudder in fear.
What of the long term health of other SMEs within the German tool manufacturers association with whom Mafell collaborates? Metabowerke? Eibenstock? Robert Bosch? Kress Elektrik? What would be the future of those fine tools that these companies produce collaboratively? Would tens of thousands of users the world over be left high & dry for want of strategic spare parts & maintenance items? Over my cooling, lifeless body, thank you very much!
Steven Owen
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2017
- Messages
- 443
Holmz said:
I don’t see Mafell being incorporated into Festool. Mafell is a great brand. There’s no reason to mess with it. Bosch, Stanley Black and Decker, Emerson, ect all own multiple tool brands.
Mafell would simply become another brand under the Festool. Festool’s international distribution system would allow Mafell to be sold in more countries making the brand more accessible to more users.
Rather than Canadians having to buy and ship Mafell half way across North America, Mafell tools could be sold by all of Festool’s dealers and the Festool Shop. There’s a lot of counties around the world that don’t have a Mafell dealer at all.
More people around the world would be exposed to the Mafell brand of Festool owned Mafell.
Cheese
Member
The synergies just don’t work in this situation. This is a marriage that will never be. You can prompt, encourage and promote a wedding, however it will ultimately go bust.
Cheese
Member
I believe it is a privately held company.
Just working through the thought process....Festool, being an international company that has less than 10% of the tool market then purchases Mafell, another German tool company that has less than 1% of the tool market. What's the upside for either company? It costs huge $$$ to gain what?
They've already purchased Sawstop for reasons unknown.
Just working through the thought process....Festool, being an international company that has less than 10% of the tool market then purchases Mafell, another German tool company that has less than 1% of the tool market. What's the upside for either company? It costs huge $$$ to gain what?
They've already purchased Sawstop for reasons unknown.
Holmz
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2014
- Messages
- 4,001
Steven Owen said:
Look I like rainbows and unicorns as much as the next bloke.
But capitalism is built upon making a profit, not looking out for customer interests.
You guys may need to build a wall if the companies in Canada give more than a passing thought of a flying-F about their customers.
The CEO are disconnected from the customer base, and they work for the shareholders...
I was impressed with our Kiwi brother's cogent thought and eloquent execution of delivery.
aloysius said:
Got the Chaos-wall pushed further along and a bit sunburnt too.
McNally Family
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 613
Speaking of Mafell.....
KSS 50cc is now available for purchase on the Timberwolf website......
www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-kss-50cc-cross-cutting-system
sorry if this has already been posted. I did not see it if it was.
KSS 50cc is now available for purchase on the Timberwolf website......
www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-kss-50cc-cross-cutting-system
sorry if this has already been posted. I did not see it if it was.
yetihunter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
- Messages
- 786
Presumption assumption, what's your function?
Pertaining to it getting Holz in Herr, I'm gonna take off all (of) my clothes:
Here are some alternate assumptions...
Holz-Herr wanted to ditch it's saw division (power tools).
Holz-Herr couldn't keep up with making belt sanders for other manufacturers.
Festool Tooltechnic doesn't have the production capacity to fulfill random large
belt sander orders for 10 or so companies.
The companies outsourcing belt sanders were already planning to go to
an Asian manufacturer that could/can.
Holz-Herr were losing market share of large circular saws to the likes of Makita.
Festool tried to compete with those Holz-Herr saws under the Protool brand and
they couldn't regain that market share.
People just don't buy those types of belt-sanders anymore. I too would charge an
arm and a leg if I was in their shoes. If it's sitting in the warehouse, waiting for
the tiny fraction of customers to make a once and a while purchase, the product is
going to have to pay it's rent.
Pertaining to it getting Holz in Herr, I'm gonna take off all (of) my clothes:
Here are some alternate assumptions...
Holz-Herr wanted to ditch it's saw division (power tools).
Holz-Herr couldn't keep up with making belt sanders for other manufacturers.
Festool Tooltechnic doesn't have the production capacity to fulfill random large
belt sander orders for 10 or so companies.
The companies outsourcing belt sanders were already planning to go to
an Asian manufacturer that could/can.
Holz-Herr were losing market share of large circular saws to the likes of Makita.
Festool tried to compete with those Holz-Herr saws under the Protool brand and
they couldn't regain that market share.
People just don't buy those types of belt-sanders anymore. I too would charge an
arm and a leg if I was in their shoes. If it's sitting in the warehouse, waiting for
the tiny fraction of customers to make a once and a while purchase, the product is
going to have to pay it's rent.
yetihunter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
- Messages
- 786
Holmz said:
I love you, Holmz.
Steven Owen
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2017
- Messages
- 443
The most intriguing tool for me in Mafell’s line-up would the the Mafell Doweller. Mafell has really thought out the process of quickly jointing multiple plywood pieces quickly and accurately with their system.
Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino. I still plan to buy the DF 700 first. I’d buy a doweller before I’d buy the DF 500.
Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino. I still plan to buy the DF 700 first. I’d buy a doweller before I’d buy the DF 500.
Cheese
Member
Steven Owen said:
Just curious...have you used a Domino before?
Make a mark...choose a bit...plunge. Biscuits, Domino’s or dowels. The process is the same, however the outcome may be different.
Michael Kellough
Member
Steven Owen said:
Did Mafell buy Hoffmann? Looks like the old Hoffmann PDS 32.
Freud used to make FDW710, which is the same thing. Then there are Felisatti RF 12710 (a copy of Freud or vice versa), DWL850 from an obscure company called 909, and of course Triton TDJ600. So, six different manufacturers. I don't know who came first.Michael Kellough said:
McNally Family
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 613
Svar said:
Here is a link for an old auction, for the Hoffmann PDS32. It certainly looks like the current Mafell product.
https://www.bidspotter.com/en-gb/au...0089/lot-7f40ac60-8d89-4b5e-893d-a46d00e09dc9
Here is a picture and article for the Freud dowler, which sold for around $350.00. It does also resemble the Mafell product:
http://www.rockler.com/how-to/the-freud-dowel-joiner-a-new-take-on-an-old-technique/
Steven Owen
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2017
- Messages
- 443
Cheese said:
I will be buying the DF 700 when I get my taxes back next year. I’ll have an opportunity to use the Domino first. I’ve been using a router and a Dado on a Table Saw for loose tenons. The router table saw approach works if you have nothing but time on your hands.
I’m hoping the domino will allow me to double the number of furniture pieces I make every year.
Cheese
Member
Steven Owen said:
You'll be pleasantly surprised with the speed of project execution. [cool]
Timtool
Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2011
- Messages
- 1,011
[member=66154]Steven Owen[/member]
I find their doweller magnificent, but in the same time I hate dowels. Gluing them is time consuming and messy when compared to dominos.
Plus the domino is more versatile, I use mine for solid wood nearly exclusively but can always use it when needed on plywood, where I generally prefer dado joints. The doweller is really only useful on sheet goods, and even then it's not really a production tool. So I don't really know what to think of it, I'd like to have one just to admire it, but wouldn't know what the heck to do with it.
I find their doweller magnificent, but in the same time I hate dowels. Gluing them is time consuming and messy when compared to dominos.
Plus the domino is more versatile, I use mine for solid wood nearly exclusively but can always use it when needed on plywood, where I generally prefer dado joints. The doweller is really only useful on sheet goods, and even then it's not really a production tool. So I don't really know what to think of it, I'd like to have one just to admire it, but wouldn't know what the heck to do with it.
