Festool Contractors

[Frank_M]

Matt,

Sounds like a general disclosure statement is the most generally accepted way of handling the situation here.  I also think this is the most reasonable resolution.  Only thing I would say is to make it prominantly available to people see at the time of registration and also posted somewhere for everyone else so that we can refer existing members as needed.

About the role of this forum in connection with Festool, the company, I think you are saying that FOG is not here to be part of Festool's marketing/customer service efforts, but you do have an interest in Festool gaining new customers.  Your exact quote is below:
"Even though the forum does not benefit directly from sales of tools, it is one of my interests to see that Festool gains new customers.  I'm happy to know that the forum can help with that -- discussions we have here can, and do, lead to sales and new customers for Festool."

.. which to me means you, as the administrator of FOG, are interested in helping grow Festool by helping Festool gain new customers.  Please correct me if I am still off track.  I don't have a problem with this either as long as this is all made clear to people coming in and those who are already members.

... About FOG's role in helping Festool grow, I don't agree with the approach of avoiding comments that would prevent a sale, which I hope is not your intention either.  If it is only to address concerns of newcomers I am for it.  I am sure you understand very well that for this place to be effective in helping Festool grow it needs to be more inclusive than exclusive. ...

I appreciate everything you said in your last message.  However, in response to your above statement, I just want to clarify that I did not mean the FOG should help Festool grow.  This forum is independent of the company, and it is not part of Festool's marketing or customer service efforts.

But because of the unique nature of this forum, I feel we do play an interesting role in relation to the company.  Many people come to this forum, and in learning about the tools through our discussions become customers.  Therefore, I don't want to have discussions that alienate people who are new to the forum, and possibly new to Festool, and who may be confused about the whole structure.  Those same new people may also be potential customers.  More directly for us, those new people may become tomorrow's major contributors to the forum.  I see it as all connected.

So, I'm not intentionally trying to contribute to Festool's bottom line.  But I don't want to do anything that makes this forum appear to exclude new members or people who don't post often.  If you look back through my posts in this discussion, you'll see this is the line of thought I have been pursuing all along.

Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Bob Marino]

If a general disclosure is needed (I personally don't think so, but don't mind either way) then fashion some such statement. My own opinion is that the integrity of those who write or illustrate the tools has never been in question, not for one second and Matt, I give you a lot of credit for managing/balancing such many issues.

Bob

 

[Chris Billman]

Newbie Fe$tool owner (thanks Microsoft!) and newbie FOG'er here.  Amazingly, I actually took the time to read this whole thread.  I see a disclaimer as a decent compromise as long as it's visible to new registrants and easily obtainable for current members.  But I'd rather see a one sentence note at the beginning of each "review" that clearly explains if the products discussed were purchased or gifts.  No labels, no standard signature text, no big green tattoos are necessary.

I stumbled down to this thread after reading a bunch of the extremely helpful tool information in the other sub-forums over the past few days.  These kinds of threads (this one, the "who owns the forum/domain" fiasco, and others like the donated tools debate) give this newbie the impression that this place is mildly dysfunctional at the moment.  Not sure if I want to enthusiastically jump into this pond till the water settles a bit.....

Anyway, I've never sent anyone here a PM, so don't assume I'm one of Matthew's complainers.  I'd much rather see useful changes to the forum (like banning double-spaced posts  ) than energy continued to be spent on this stuff.  Whatever the decision - get on with it and put this to bed.  Let the place calm down a bit and refocus on the tools and not the forum itself.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Chris,
Thanks for your input, and for saving me a PM!

We've now heard from several established members, as well as several new members.  There are differences of opinion, but in the end it looks like a disclaimer explaining the way things work here, along with the need for people to seek information out on their own to a certain extent, will take care of the issue.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

About the role of this forum in connection with Festool, the company, I think you are saying that FOG is not here to be part of Festool's marketing/customer service efforts, but you do have an interest in Festool gaining new customers.  Your exact quote is below:
"Even though the forum does not benefit directly from sales of tools, it is one of my interests to see that Festool gains new customers.  I'm happy to know that the forum can help with that -- discussions we have here can, and do, lead to sales and new customers for Festool."

.. which to me means you, as the administrator of FOG, are interested in helping grow Festool by helping Festool gain new customers.  Please correct me if I am still off track.  I don't have a problem with this either as long as this is all made clear to people coming in and those who are already members.

I'll try to explain it, because what you're asking is important, though it's not so simple to sum up!

My point is, I'm a fan of the company, like most people here.  I'm saying I like the company, and I respect the company.  I think they make great tools and live up to high standards, and they deserve to succeed because of that.

These are the very reasons I created the forum in the first place, and that has never changed.  At the same time, I also created the forum because I was confused about the tools (not enough information).

When I created the forum, I had three goals in mind: (1) to see if I could find out who else out there likes the tools, but is confused about them; (2) to see if I could bring those people together to have some fun discussing the use of the tools; (3) to perhaps get input directly from the company.

Because I like the company, when you put those three pure goals together, it also becomes one of the central missions of the forum to help the company's dealers and help the company's customer base grow.  If that were not part of it, why would I go through the trouble of having a forum dedicated to a particular company?

But I am not an employee of the company, and I am not involved in Festool's customer service or marketing plans.

Does that make sense?

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
I have come up with something that I believe will help us resolve this whole discussion.
To see what I mean, click here.
Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Daviddubya]

What happened to the disclaimer that was going to be the resolution to this issue?

 

[Matthew Schenker]

What happened to the diclaimer that was going to be the resolution to this issue?

I'm wondering whether the Karma idea may take care of this.  I thought about it a lot, and the core issue seems to be trust.  If that's really the issue, then seeing that someone has a positive rating in the community would solve the problem.

Let's say a person does contract work for Festool.  But if he has a really high positive peer rating, that should send a message to new members that you can trust that person.  It kind of takes care of itself.

This has been a difficult issue for me to deal with, and I am trying to find the most inclusive way to handle it.

What do you think?

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Daviddubya]

...What do you think?

Stay in touch,
Matthew

I think the disclaimer idea had the support of many of the people on both sides of this issue.  I think the disclaimer should be implemented.  I think the karma rating is a different subject.

 

[Frank_M]

I fully agree.  Karma is a whole other discussion. 

The point about the disclaimer was to make the information available to everyone especially to new comers at the time of registration and then posted somewhere else for everyone to see as needed. Karma will not achieve the same effect.

...What do you think?

Stay in touch,
Matthew

I think the disclaimer idea had the support of many of the people on both side of this issue.  I think the disclaimer should be implemented.  I think the karma rating is a different subject.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Afternoon,
I do think they get at the same core issue (I've been looking over the discussion here as well as all the offline messages I have received on this).  But I can write a disclaimer and have that in addition to the Karma system.
Matthew