Festool/ Mafell Rails

[jeh]

The saw base stays locked onto the rail for the whole length - it has a continuous groove that accepts the rib on the rail. Maybe the base is longer than the TS55? I only found this out when I first cut the splinter strip.
I should have said, you still want some run in/out, you just don't need anywhere near as much - eg. the 2100 rail is plenty long enough to rip a standard 2040mm door.
And yes, you can tighten /loosen the saw to the rail.

I will caveat this with I like to be plunged before entering a cut (unless a plunge cut is required).

One other note on the rails is the splinter strip which is huge improvement as it slides into a profile on the edge of the real. Mafell really put some thought into their rail design (groove for saw base, slide in splinter strips, easy multiple rail connections, etc). I attached an image that highlights their rails.[attachimg=1]

I have never had much luck replacing my Festool ones. I have tried a lot methods, but none seem to work. Thinking is was the tight roll it comes on I took the time to layout under the rail and allow it to go flat before applying it. It seems the adhesive is just not as good as what comes from the factory. On my next replacement I am going to take some fine sandpaper to scuff up the adhesion area.

 

[Qwas]

Let me point out a big difference in these 2 guide rail systems. The most important thing on the rail is the channel that the saw will be riding on. This is important for saw stability and safety. Since this channel is the highest point on the guide rail, you need to think about it getting bumped and knocked around.

The Festool channel is over 5/8 inch wide and 1/4 inch tall. It also has radiuses edges. 

The Mafell channel is 1/10 inch wide and 1/8 inch tall. The edges have no notice radius.

The Festool channel will be more "solid" (less willing to bend) to side forces. The Mafell channel, with no radius, is very likely to get nicked and damaged during transport without the bag. I would keep a file handy to smooth out those nicks.

Looking at the Mafell MT-55 saw base, I would say you need as much guide rail overhanging the workpiece as you do with the Festool system. The MT-55 saw base is very similar to the TS-55 saw base. You can google the saws model numbers and go to "images" to see the bases.

Both guide rails have about the same thickness so there are no advantages there.

 

[Locks14]

Let me point out a big difference in these 2 guide rail systems. The most important thing on the rail is the channel that the saw will be riding on. This is important for saw stability and safety. Since this channel is the highest point on the guide rail, you need to think about it getting bumped and knocked around.

The Festool channel is over 5/8 inch wide and 1/4 inch tall. It also has radiuses edges. 

The Mafell channel is 1/10 inch wide and 1/8 inch tall. The edges have no notice radius.

The Festool channel will be more "solid" (less willing to bend) to side forces. The Mafell channel, with no radius, is very likely to get nicked and damaged during transport without the bag. I would keep a file handy to smooth out those nicks.

Looking at the Mafell MT-55 saw base, I would say you need as much guide rail overhanging the workpiece as you do with the Festool system. The MT-55 saw base is very similar to the TS-55 saw base. You can google the saws model numbers and go to "images" to see the bases.

Both guide rails have about the same thickness so there are no advantages there.

Hello All.

First post here, been a long time lurker but this post caused me to want to join.

I am a long time Mafell user and also have some significant investment in Festool. I like both equally as brands, but favour some tools over the other between the two brands.

Festool have the better routers, the domino machines are unique and fantastic and Festool try to innovate more than any other tools manufacturer I can think of.

That said the jigsaw and track saw from Mafell is far superior.

As for the above comment, having used both, the Mafell rails are far superior.  Their shape and profile make them less susceptible to deforming and as noted above less of the rail length is wasted compared to Festool. As for the height of the channel, etc this is certainly a difference but neither a pro nor a con. The Mafell rails I have had for 6+ years take daily use and transport without being wrapped in cotton wool and never have they got nicked or needed filing down. It's a moot point and clutching at straws to try to justify this as a benefit.

The most important aspect of the rails IMO, is the fact that they align perfectly when connecting two rails together and two 1600mm rails joined are just as good as a single rail of the same length, there's no need to buy the bigger rails unless you are 100% shop based and use them all day every day.

I have also used the Bosch equivalent that Mafell make for Bosch and that is 95% as good as the Mafell saw at approx £100-£150 less money and uses the same rails.

So my preference would be:

1) Mafell
2) Bosch
3) Festool

 

[SAWEEET]

locks14 - I couldn't of said it any better myself !

 

[jnug]

Seems a shame that the Bosch track saw is not available in the US so that we could at least have a look at in the flesh.

The Mafill design for the rails does look very nice. Has the look of a precision instrument. I was wondering if there anything about the Mafill/Bosch rails besides that connecting system that makes them more of a precision instrument than the Festool. In other words, if you don't have to connect them up and putting aside the strip and whether it is easy or hard to install, is there anything about the Mafill/Bosch rail that makes it more on a precision measuring/marking instrument than the Festool?

 

[ScotF]

The sides of the rails are machined and thus perfectly straight and square. The rubber strip fits in a channel and so will not come unglued. The protector on the end covers the enter width of the rail and so no chance of the cord/hose snagging at all. There are also two sets of track on the bottom allowing for clamping stock right at the cut line - so you can work with really narrow stock safely. The rails are slightly thicker too - so a little more rigid.

Now - I personally like the little green strips on the top of the rail of Festool rails to aid sliding the saw and protecting the saws shoe and so that is a plus for Festool. But the Mafell rails seem to be a little better engineered in most other areas IMHO.

 

[elfick]

as noted above less of the rail length is wasted compared to Festool

Can someone please explain why this would be the case?
Are there no adjustment nibs? If so, are they closer the the middle of the saw? If not, is play a concern?

You really don't need as much track lead in/out if you are willing to plunge into the material. I don't have my TS with me to measure, but on the 55 I suspect it is approximately 6-8". The actual lead in would be from the rear nib to the blade centerline. Lead out would be from the front nib to the blade centerline.

Regardless, I don't see how this is a function of the rail rather than the tool.

I had originally jumped on the thread because The Mafell rails do look very well engineered and have a couple improvements over the Festool rails. I had been thinking of an interface shoe to allow the TS to run on a Mafell rail, but after playing with a few ideas, it didn't really make much sense. The Mafell rail is already thicker and adding a shoe which would be, at a minimum, as thick as the height of the guide spur, would significantly reduce the TS cut depth.

An interface shoe may still be a good idea for the flexible Mafell rail, but for the rigid rail, it seemed better to address the shortcoming(s) of the Festool rail. So far, it seems the posted benefits of the Mafell rail are:

1) Thicker, thus more rigid
2) Nicer splinter strip
3) Two clamping channels
4) Machined ends
5) Better End cover
6) Significantly better connector

I'm playing with some ideas for #6.

For the rest, I can't really see that there is much to be done except to design a new extrusion that combines the Mafell rail design with a Festool channel. I don't see any reason this couldn't be done. Googling for "custom aluminium extrusion" gives quite a few hits. The only downside to this is that you'd loose so cut depth due to the thicker rail. The EZSMART Guide Rail Extrusion probably comes close. http://www.eurekazone.com/product_p/ezxh736264.htm

To be honest, though I see the benefit in all this items, only the connector makes enough of a difference to me to be worth pursuing.

 

[promark747]

So far, it seems the posted benefits of the Mafell rail are:


5) Better End cover

As for #5, it bugs me that Festool hasn't redesigned this simple little piece.  From what I've read, this end cover was for the previous generation of rail, and Festool didn't change it when they came out with the new ones.

 

[jnug]

I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

 

[Cheese]

I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

Think floor sweeps/weather strips on the bottom of storm doors. They all slide into an extruded slot. However, if Mafell has a patent on the rail, maybe they've included the slot as one of the claims on the patent.

 

[fshanno]

We're always figuring out stuff to do with the Festool guides specifically because they have channels.  I know that has value for me.

 

[thedude306]

The connectors are what sold me.  The anti-splinter strips are a BIG plus but not a deal breaker. 

It's the ability to have perfectly straight rails in seconds while attaching them together.  And that means I don't need anything longer then 1600mm which is nice for storage and transportation.

The only thing that I have not found is a set of parallel guides that work with min effort, if that is important to you.  It hasn't been for myself.  I would like seneca to make some sort of adapter?? 

 

[jdw101]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, damn they are expensive.

 

[McNally Family]

[member=45902]jdw101[/member]

For me, I was not invested in any track saw platform, but I knew I liked the P1cc jigsaw, which can also be used with the Mafell rails.  Essentially, it was my jigsaw purchase that led me to the rail system, that will now lead me the Mafell track saw (soon I hope).

The only Festool rail I currently own is the FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail, for use with my newly acquired Festool 1400 router.

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.

 

[Cheese]

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of [member=40772]Holmz[/member] that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka sales...

 

[Klemm]

one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
We keep getting a steady trickle of requests for MAFELL / TSO Guide Rail Squares. The MAFELL track sample at my desk is a constant reminder. We are watching the marketing progress of MAFELL over here for the time where this development can make economic sense. It requires a substantially different mechanical approach than our FESTOOL oriented GRS-16 series but is definitely doable.

The guide rail connector/ not-square issue with FESTOOL would be more of a here and now issue to address. Any thoughts on that topic would be welcome as we study the issue and collect DATA. If anyone in the Mineapolis / St Paul (Minnesota USA) area has FESTOOL track fit issues and would like to participate in a DATA collection effort with us, we'd like to hear from them.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hans

 

[Holmz]

one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
...

Video below.

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of [member=40772]Holmz[/member] that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka and Lamello sales...

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] - You forgot the Lamello, so I added it for you.  [tongue]

At some point late in life, even I started treating others as I would like to be treated.  [wink]
Then people at least know that there is an option and they can do their due diligence and decide based upon some investigation.

Maybe I need an [member=60452]McNally Family[/member] kick back? Beers are cheap...  but more than my [2cents], or maybe we could do a virtual beer?  [tongue]

Maybe this is somewhat apropos with the cold front interrupting spring the US and Canada...

 

[Flatsawn]

one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
We keep getting a steady trickle of requests for MAFELL / TSO Guide Rail Squares. The MAFELL track sample at my desk is a constant reminder. We are watching the marketing progress of MAFELL over here for the time where this development can make economic sense. It requires a substantially different mechanical approach than our FESTOOL oriented GRS-16 series but is definitely doable.

The guide rail connector/ not-square issue with FESTOOL would be more of a here and now issue to address. Any thoughts on that topic would be welcome as we study the issue and collect DATA. If anyone in the Mineapolis / St Paul (Minnesota USA) area has FESTOOL track fit issues and would like to participate in a DATA collection effort with us, we'd like to hear from them.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hans

I'm waiting for an MFT replacement guide rail mechanism that keeps the rail square after raising and lowering it a few times.

 

[jdw101]

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of [member=40772]Holmz[/member] that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka sales...

Cannot blame you for wanting that jigsaw, I am saving for it right now.  I hope to have it in a few months.  I've never liked any of my jigsaws, not even a little bit.  The way I see it is if I hate it too I can get what I paid for it and more

 

[Holmz]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.