Festool TS 60 vs Mafell MT55cc

[techne]

Hi FOG,

Thanks for this wealth of information on Festool, other tools and solutions.

Now that the TS 60 has been out for a while, I’m curious about its strengths or drawbacks compared to the Mafell MT55cc.

Obviously these are both top-tier saws.

1.
In previous threads, users have been impressed with the extra power and build quality of the Mafell compared to the TS55.  For example,
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-cc/

In North America, the latest 120V Mafell is 13.5A compared to TS55 at 10A.  However, the TS60 is 13A and brushless.

TS55, assuming 80% efficiency for brushed motor = 120*10*80% = 960 watts output.
Mafell, assuming 80% efficiency for brushed motor = 120*13.5*80% = 1300 watts output.
TS60, assuming 90% efficiency for brushless motor = 120*13*90% = 1400 watts output.

2.
Mafell/Bosch rails join easily, but don’t have anti-friction glide strips.  The latest TSO and Festool track connectors make joining Festool rails more straightforward.

Mafell/Bosch rails are narrower and have a clamping position closer to the cutting edge, which is helpful for narrower stock.  Bench dogs can’t be too high on the Mafell rail or they will interfere with the progress of the saw.  Mafell/Bosch rails hove no T-track on top, which is a limitation for jigs and third-party accessories.

Mafell/Bosch splinter guards have a bulb that is retained within the profile of the extruded rail, eliminating the issue of Festool splinterguards which can peel away from the aluminum (especially in cold weather, etc.).
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/splinter-guard-peeling-off-at-the-end/

3.
Festool saws allow lateral trunnion adjustment to match other saws or existing rails; Mafell MT55 only has lateral adjustment at the rear trunnion.  If you have multiple saws (mix of red and green) they must all be matched to the Mafell.  If you have two Mafell saws, can you match them?
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-bevel-cut-dissapointing/

4.
As per [member=15585]Svar[/member] ’s OP in the link above, the Mafell trunnions are made of steel and are more rigid than on the TS55.  However, the trunnions on the TS60 are also made of steel.  (See Reply 28 and 29 of the thread below.)
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...crushes-corded-competitors-in-test-incl-ts75/

5.
There are issues with the Mafell blade not cutting on the splinter guard when bevelled.  Not sure if Mafell has improved that in recent years.  There is a fix for this issue per Bisch Basch Bosch.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mafell-mt55-bevel-cut-dissapointing/


6.
Festool TS60 works with FSK rails, in addition to the long FS guide rails.

7.
Motor of the TS60 does not overhang the rail.

8.
Greater depth of cut for the TS60 than the MT55.  Blade availability may be somewhat more limited.

I’ve used various versions of the TS55, in addition to the TS75, extensively.  I have had hands on the TS60 and MT55, but no significant work usage.

Seems like Festool has put a lot of thought and craft into the TS60.  And the Mafell is a beautiful, solid tool.

If you were starting fresh—no sunk cost bias of existing rails, etc.—what would you choose at this point?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

"In the US" I would stick with Festool, specifically the TS60, for all of the pluses mentioned. Assuming the Mafell is equal, or even slightly better, the warranty and other support for Festool is far easier to attain.
Mafell may be available, but they are not exactly present. Plus, there is the extended depth of cut.
Initially, that alone was my motive to purchase a TS60. Since then, it has become my go-to for most tasks. I did keep the TS55, that I already had, but relegated it to a minor role of cutting solid surface. I say minor, but that is relative. In my situation, that can be quite a bit.

As attested to be a few guys, who's opinion I trust, the Mafell jig saw is vastly superior to the Carvex, but no one has ever said that about the track saw. "Better" or at least "Preferred for personal reasons", ok sure, but objectively that much better?

 

[Michael Kellough]

Mafell circular saw leans towards accommodating the needs of a carpenter.

The blade housing is super easy to open for changing blades.
A carpenter needs to change blades often.

In addition to the superior rail joinery the extra clamp location makes straightening narrow stock easy for the site carpenter. A tablesaw can’t really straighten a bent 2x4 but the Mafell tracksaw can.

I have Festool and Mafell tracksaws and like them both but if you’re just doing cabinetmaking the TS60 alone is enough.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Mafell circular saw leans towards accommodating the needs of a carpenter.

The blade housing is super easy to open for changing blades.
A carpenter needs to change blades often.

In addition to the superior rail joinery the extra clamp location makes straightening narrow stock easy for the site carpenter. A tablesaw can’t really straighten a bent 2x4 but the Mafell tracksaw can.

I have Festool and Mafell tracksaws and like them both but if you’re just doing cabinetmaking the TS60 alone is enough.

I don't know why a "carpenter" would need to change blades any more often than anyone else, but opening the housing is somewhat of a false flag. You don't need to open a Festool saw to change blades at all, it is very easy to do, with the on-board tool.
The closer groove may indeed be handy, but it's hardly a requirement. I have built fixtures to hold several different items, just for that purpose. Going as far as straightening one side of a barn beam, to use as a mantle, leaving the rest rough. Though that was a TS75, the same principle applies.
What I do is well beyond building boxes, cabinet maker is somewhat of an oversimplification, thus the very inclusive collection of tools. I have to be ready for nearly anything.

I do think we can stir up quite a discussion over what "Carpenter" means though. I doubt there is going to be a simple consensus. To me, it is an umbrella term, that covers at least a few things I would give more specific names.

 

[TSO_Products]

@tekne - welcome back to FOG after doing your homework.

Let me add one comment: The FESTOOL guide rails offer the greatest selection of FESTOOL AND other brands of helpful accessories of any of the dozen or so track saw brands we sample in our engineering group.

That said, you'll also find a MAFELL saw set among us - excellent product, no question. But in our experience, we see it as no match for the FESTOOL platforms choices and all-around utility.

"hope this helps" as Sedge would say.

Hans

 

[Michael Kellough]

In my experience doing carpentry cutting plywood and ripping construction grade stock requires different blades for best results and it’s definitely faster with the Mafell saw. It’s not perfect but it’s a very fine tool. I don’t have a TS60 but it seems to be a great saw.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I have both an MT55 and a TS60. And a TS55 (my 3rd one as I wore the other two out - I do this for a living as does [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] above). My take;

1 Don't get hung up on tech specs and wind up over-thinking yourself into not daring to buy anything at all.. All three of the above saws represent stellar, pro-quality hardware, and any of them will do anything you'll even need them to do.

2 The Mafell/Bosch rail system is better engineered than Festool's in terms of it being self-aligning and having a slide-in splinterguard. That having been said - aftermarket rail joiners (TSO) fix that. Conscensus on here is generally that the Makita joiners are the best.

3 Guys like CRG and me (who both have multiple other saws) have bought the TS60 because we regularly need to cut 45-degree bevels in 40mm(1-1/2") material. That apparently insignificant extra cut depth is what makes that possible.

Summary;

Your choice is like that you'd make between a McLaren, a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. They'll all nail you the back of your seat and put a smile on your face. To me though - the TS60 is pretty much all things to all men, and it's become my absolute go-to since the day I bought it.

Hope you get fixed up.

 

[mrboult]

The Mafell doesn’t cut at the splinter guard/cut line when bevelled at an angle. That was the end of my interest.

Other than that i think the more numerous and more widely available accessories and parts for the festool seal the deal.

Personally i use Metabo tracks these days with my festool. They join like the Mafell but work with the festool saws.

 

[techne]

Thank you all for these comments.  It’s amazing to have access to this knowledgebase of experienced users through this forum.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member], good point about Festool’s service and presence, and that the MT55cc is not spoken about as vastly superior in the way that the P1cc is.

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member], the ‘lean’ to a site carpenter makes a lot of sense—thank you.

[member=61691]TSO_Products[/member], Hans, I have benefitted greatly from your products and appreciate your observation about the versatility of the Festool platform. 

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member], good call : )

[member=22067]mrB[/member], I did not know about the Metabo tracks—thanks for mentioning these and your other notes.

I’m also curious if people regularly use the FSK rails with the TS60, or if that is a bit awkward in practise with a plunge rather than fixed blade.  Does it work well?  Seems like it opens up efficient options, if it’s not too many degrees of freedom.

 

[mrboult]

I made a whole post about the Metabo tracks here about 3 years ago.https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...tabo-guide-rails-festool/msg602718/#msg602718

 

[Cheese]

An interesting query, but if this question was asked before the relatively recent release of the TS 60...the over riding opinion a few years ago would have been to just purchase the MT 55, it was that simple. The TS 55 was ok but really underpowered when compared to the Mafell product.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

An interesting query, but if this question was asked before the relatively recent release of the TS 60...the over riding opinion a few years ago would have been to just purchase the MT 55, it was that simple. The TS 55 was ok but really underpowered when compared to the Mafell product.

100% agreed. That’s exactly why I bought the Mafell.

 

[petar73]

3 Guys like CRG and me (who both have multiple other saws) have bought the TS60 because we regularly need to cut 45-degree bevels in 40mm(1-1/2") material. That apparently insignificant extra cut depth is what makes that possible.

Do you get a consistent straight cut ripping solid hard wood with the thin blades?

 

[Fourmi]

I have a rather large Mafell collection (18 at last count), so I may seem biased, I'm not...

They have a habit of making best in class tools: P1CC and PS2-18 jigsaws, LO55 router, MT55 and MT55-18, the whole range of KSS saws in mains and cordless. They also make tools with few or little competition: HIT-M edge bander (you see they don't just do carpentry tools!), DDF40 doweller, MF26CC multi groover, NFU carpentry groover.

Unless you are a serious professional wanting the best of every class (I am, I do and that's why also have a rather large Festool collectionl!) I would tend to recommend Festool over Mafell - main reason being price, the step up in price is for sure a step up in quality, but unlikely to be justified in most use case scenarios.

There are some Mafells I have that I could do without and not even notice (drills, sanders, edge trimmer) I use them because I have them... but to be fair, I also have some Festools that I'm not too fussed about (notably OF1400, DWC18, Planex 2, LS130...)

Regarding OPs question, starting from scratch I would go all in Festool and get the Mafells I really wouldn't want to be without. The only Festool track saws I currently have (Sold TS55 and HKC55) are the TS75 (solid surface work) and TSV60 (laminate work) - I will get a TS60 if and when it comes out in cordless just because it can run on the FSK track, and for certain uses, having a plunge saw on a crosscut rail would be more than very handy.

Voila, my 2 cents...

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

The Mafell doesn’t cut at the splinter guard/cut line when bevelled at an angle. That was the end of my interest.

^^snip^^

Do you have evidence to back up this assertion? I have several Mafell saws, none of them have any issues cutting along the splinter guard when cutting at a bevel.

Fourmi, woodbutcherbower, and Cheese captured it well: If you are a professional tradesperson and require the best the industry has to offer, then it's usually a safe bet to opt for the Mafell, and plan on paying a premium. The vast majority of users would be well served with the Festool or Makita track saws, and may not even appreciate the nuances of the Mafell.

I have a lot of Mafell tools, but I'm not "all-in". I recently discovered a requirement for a track-guided saw that would handle ripping 60mm+ rough-sawn lumber (my 8/4 Pine has been arriving at ~60-65mm, 14' long, 20"+ wide, so I need to break it down prior to entering the Shop). I desperately wanted to justify a KSS-80, but my budget is not unlimited, and I realized that the Makita GSH-04 would work just as well for breaking down 8/4 stock, and I just couldn't justify the KSS-80, even though it is without doubt the "better" saw in every aspect.

In terms of track saws, I recently picked up a Makita 40V GPS01 to serve as my "kick-around" plunge cutting track saw to ride in the van, and have reserved the MT-55cc for Shop work, though it definitely does still see some on-site work when I really benefit from the power or precision.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Do you get a consistent straight cut ripping solid hard wood with the thin blades?

If your blade is sharp, your rails are clamped, and you take it slowly and let the machine do its work - then absolutely yes.

 

[jeh]

The Mafell doesn’t cut at the splinter guard/cut line when bevelled at an angle. That was the end of my interest.

This is definitely no true of either of mine. I mark the line, bevel cut and it cuts the line.

 

[jeh]

OP: Don't overthink it. All are good. If you are concerned about warranty then stick with Festool other than that there really is no reason not to buy the Mafell. They have some unique tools and I have two that are more than 5 years old. Never had a problem. The stuff is pricey by any measure. The rails for the MT55 are a significantly better design and joining two is trivial, no extra gadget needed.

You will not go wrong with what you choose. The TSV 60 is quite interesting with the scoring blade. The Mafell can score but it is not the same as a dedicated scoring blade.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Do you get a consistent straight cut ripping solid hard wood with the thin blades?

If your blade is sharp, your rails are clamped, and you take it slowly and let the machine do its work - then absolutely yes.

Yes, this is one of the few times where I clamp the rail. With square cuts, on sheet goods especially, i very rarely do. The friction pads are plenty. However, bevel cuts are completely different. The force it takes to overcome the plunge spring is enough to keep it still, but not with a bevel.
Also, there is a bit more technique required. Virtually anyone can make a square cut, but bevels take more attention. Hand placement, material support, smooth movement, all play a role.
Oh, and the correct blade, don't even try it with the 40 tooth ATB. The 28 tooth "universal" blade is ok, as long as the material is not too thick. Above 3/4" or so, it is best to go with the real ripping blade.

 

[Cheese]

OP: Don't overthink it. All are good. If you are concerned about warranty then stick with Festool other than that there really is no reason not to buy the Mafell. They have some unique tools and I have two that are more than 5 years old. Never had a problem. The stuff is pricey by any measure. The rails for the MT55 are a significantly better design and joining two is trivial, no extra gadget needed.

You will not go wrong with what you choose. The TSV 60 is quite interesting with the scoring blade. The Mafell can score but it is not the same as a dedicated scoring blade.

I'm with Jim on this one...I much prefer the Mafell on so many other levels but in this grouping there is really not a loser, these are just the 2 VERY BEST TRACK SAWS and neither will disappoint.

I'm just waiting for the release of the Festool cordless TS 60. That'll be sweet. Unfortunately, at that point I'll have 3 Festool track saws to sell.  [sad]