Festool TS60 K ?

[woodbutcherbower]

I take back everything I said about the TS60. Think that just those few mm makes no difference? I jumped in with both feet, thinking "The number of times a TS55 doesn't cut deep enough only happens once or twice a year, and I can finish the cut using a Japanese saw as usual. If I need to cut much thicker material, I'll either use the shop bandsaw or out onsite - my P1CC with a 150mm or 200mm Bosch blade hung on the end of it''. Well - right enough 99.9% of the time, but today I was fitting new 38mm laminate countertops for a customer's kitchen makeover;

Customer - "Can you do me a waterfall on the end of the countertop run so that it folds over and then continues down to the floor?"

Me - "Sure I can ........" (knowing that these are always tricky because the 45-degree countertop bevels have to be super-square, super-accurate and super-clean, and the cheap laminate the customer had bought chips out alarmingly easily). 

But - the countertops weren't 38mm, were they? They were an oddball 43mm (which I've never, ever encountered before in over 300 kitchen jobs), and the TS55's 45-degree bevel cuts at maximum plunge weren't deep enough. Absolute nightmare. I fixed it and got it done, but it took forever. My TS55 is ancient, so when it's 'either spend some money or pay more tax' time at the end of the year, I'll be upgrading. I'll even modify the racking in my van to take the looney-tunes new Systainer3 size for it.

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FWIW - I don't care about the lack of a riving knife either, the only kickback I ever had was caused by a combination of tiredness, complacency and my own stupidity. Even using saws with one, if I'm in any doubt whatsoever about the tail-end of a cut closing up on me, I'll always pop a wedge in there just to be sure. My humble apologies to Festool's design team for instantly dismissing their splendid new machine. I feel like a bit of a chump [crying]

 

[glass1]

Metabo has already released saws which are cordless. The kt and ks. 6 1/2” blades. 2 3/8” on the rails. One is fs style and one is fsk style. Kt 18 66 bl  Ks 18 66 bl. Well competition is good.

 

[tomktest]

Ahhhh I just got my TSC 55 K at the end of last year and now this!  [blink]

 

[squall_line]

Just watched the entire "Quick Guide" series of 6 videos on the TS60K:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjhsKxIGMv5Ix0vtRV1U4-frdoDwfpaRE

Helps give a better feel for the size and features/functionality.  Similar-but-different quick-locks for the -1 and 47 degree bevels, similar anti-kickback disabling feature to the TSC55K.

I echo others who have said that a TSC 60 K might be the one I wait for, and then sell the HKC and TS 55's.

Who knows...

 

[Coen]

No riving knife, no deal.

I have a serious question, in the wild does it really make that much of a difference on a track saw? I understand the theory behind it but I've had more issues with the kerf closing when using a table saw rather than a track saw.

I used the TS 55 for 6-7 years and then the TSC for 4 years without a single issue. It was because of those 11 problem-less years that I decided 3 years ago to move on to the MT 55 and now recently the TSC/K. Three years in and ripping 4/4 & 6/4 maple & aromatic cedar with the MT 55 and I still haven't had an issue. Just lucky?

What do you define as an issue?

I've never had problems with kickback. Kerf closing... more than enough. It's not about the kickback for me either, it's about the cut quality being ruined by the kerf closing on the rear of the blade and messing things up. No amount of electronics will prevent that. So these riving-knifeless saws... I see it as a big downgrade.

I wonder if some dipsh*t is gonna do the same on table saws. I hope not.

I see it also as a step down in inherent safety. Riving knifes can be removed... but that stupid switch braking off and getting hotwired... you know that's gonna happen...

 

[ToolCrazy]

It's about time for a hybrid corded / cordless track saw. And I would like to know what testing has revealed that has justified omitting the riving knife. Almost every other feature is now in the TS 60 KEBQ so that the TS 55 models can be discontinued.

 

[Coen]

There is not gonna be a hybrid as it would massively add weight.

The omitting of the riving knife is just stupid, but all the hype at the moment. They can add the kickback detection on top if they want.

 

[Ron B]

Concerning a Hybrid saw:
Festool makes a 110/ battery hybrid with their FTSC 125 and RTSC and DTSC 400 sanders.  The set has a convertor that replaces the battery then plugs into 110v.  This is a different style battery than the normal Festool batteries, but  I have wondered why Festool has not marketed a convertor that allows the user to use 110v in their normal battery tools.  I know this is a step backwards, but would provide a definite backup when the batteries go bad.  But then I am from an era when a car's dimmer switch was in the floorboard. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

But then I am from an era when a car's dimmer switch was in the floorboard.

Me too.
I really like my TS 55, but I do mostly sheet goods. I do have a TS75, but it comes out pretty rarely. I did just use it the other day to cut down a "butcher block" top that a customer brought to us from a local home center. They needed it ripped to width and 2 sections joined together for length. The TS75 is far better than trying to shove something like that over a tablesaw.

 

[mino]

Concerning a Hybrid saw:
Festool makes a 110/ battery hybrid with their FTSC 125 and RTSC and DTSC 400 sanders.
...

The small sanderes are in the 200 Watts range or threabouts. For such low current it is possible to get a converter in roughly the same space as the battery AND the power loss (heat) it generates is also manageable.

A TSC 55 pulls around 1500 Watts at full load ... that is an order of magnitude more. An adapter to handle the current would have to be about 10x the size of the sander adapters ... 5x at a minimum.

And for what? Only to not have to replace batteries - batteries which one needs to replace every hour or so - i.e. a non issue *for a tracksaw* which sees intermittent use. With the upcomming 8Ah bats this would make even less practical sense.

I can see wanting this on a pneumatic hammer. Or on an angle grinder. I.e. tools which see prolonged use under heavy load. But for an intermittent use tool like a tracksaw it just is not worth it. IMO.

 

[glass1]

I have a ton of miles behind the makita cordless track saw. Kick back has never been an issue. Nor has no riving  knife. Whether sheet goods or solids. The ts 55 and to a lesser extend the tsc 55 have suffered many more burned rips due to a lack of power.
That being said the clunky safety, inaccurate sticky guide rail adjustments and the fact at 45 the makita over cuts the guide  rail strip is too much for me. And the anti tip thing is over blown. Unless the rail is clamped down it’s useless. Furthermore the makita rails vary too much in width and ironically the only saw that can run on joined rails is the festool. Just my two cents.

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

Me too.
I really like my TS 55, but I do mostly sheet goods. I do have a TS75, but it comes out pretty rarely. I did just use it the other day to cut down a "butcher block" top that a customer brought to us from a local home center. They needed it ripped to width and 2 sections joined together for length. The TS75 is far better than trying to shove something like that over a tablesaw.

The first job I did with my TS 55 F (and the treason I bought it) was to cut down some butcher block tops for a custom desk. I used the 28 tooth universal blade and the TS 55 handled it no problem. That thinner kerf really makes a difference. I thought I'd need a panther blade but the universal did just fine. And I concur; I'd not want to shove those tops over my tablesaw.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I probably could have done it with the TS55. I have a ripping blade for it (CMT) and the pieces were "only" 2 inches thick, but since the TS75 is just sitting there and the Panther blade was still in it from last time, why not.

I actually just got a 28 tooth universal blade for my TS55 a couple of weeks ago. I have pretty much only used the standard 48 tooth or a zero rake triple-chip blade for cutting solid surface.
I had let one (48) get too dull and the back-up (48) was at the sharpener service. I knew I was going to need it the next day and wasn't willing to use one of the TCG blades, so I picked one up at the local dealer on the way home that night.

 

[Coen]

I have a ton of miles behind the makita cordless track saw. Kick back has never been an issue. Nor has no riving  knife. Whether sheet goods or solids. The ts 55 and to a lesser extend the tsc 55 have suffered many more burned rips due to a lack of power.
That being said the clunky safety, inaccurate sticky guide rail adjustments and the fact at 45 the makita over cuts the guide  rail strip is too much for me. And the anti tip thing is over blown. Unless the rail is clamped down it’s useless. Furthermore the makita rails vary too much in width and ironically the only saw that can run on joined rails is the festool. Just my two cents.

I have a Festool rail that has a thinner ridge than all my other Festool rails  [wink]

Other saws can't run on joined rails? Why not? Huh? Maybe break the edges of other rails?

 

[mino]

I have a Festool rail that has a thinner ridge than all my other Festool rails  [wink]

Other saws can't run on joined rails? Why not? Huh? Maybe break the edges of other rails?

The Makita rails have a similar variance in between them compared to the FS/2 series (checked on asample of 20 or so from different batches). The Makita manufacturing standard is mostly lower on the straightness only.

But it does not mean one cannot get a pair of absolutely straight and matching Makita rails.
And it does not mean one cannot get a set of Festool rails where the variance is such it is worse than a lucky set of the Makitas...

The difference is in the saw, though.

The adjusting slides used on the TS55 series are more "forgiving" as they have a bit of a play range where the force applied is sufficient to guide the saw yet also allows to accomodate slight rib width differences to work.
All the other saws like SP 6000 or TS75 do not have this and so are more sensitive to the rib width variance or have to be set a bit loose, affecting cut quality.

 

[glass1]

Yes. I agree. But my experience is this, of the 5 makita rails I have and the 5 festool rails I have the makitas vary more in thickness at the guide bar section. I find them all just as straight. The festools are stiffer.
For the record I am selling my cordless makita 2 boxes 2 batteries dust bag 55” rail $275.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Yes. I agree. But my experience is this, of the 5 makita rails I have and the 5 festool rails I have the makitas vary more in thickness at the guide bar section. I find them all just as straight. The festools are stiffer.
For the record I am selling my cordless makita 2 boxes 2 batteries dust bag 55” rail $275.

And using the Metabo?

 

[Coen]

I have a Festool rail that has a thinner ridge than all my other Festool rails  [wink]

Other saws can't run on joined rails? Why not? Huh? Maybe break the edges of other rails?

The Makita rails have a similar variance in between them compared to the FS/2 series (checked on asample of 20 or so from different batches). The Makita manufacturing standard is mostly lower on the straightness only.

But it does not mean one cannot get a pair of absolutely straight and matching Makita rails.
And it does not mean one cannot get a set of Festool rails where the variance is such it is worse than a lucky set of the Makitas...

The difference is in the saw, though.

The adjusting slides used on the TS55 series are more "forgiving" as they have a bit of a play range where the force applied is sufficient to guide the saw yet also allows to accomodate slight rib width differences to work.
All the other saws like SP 6000 or TS75 do not have this and so are more sensitive to the rib width variance or have to be set a bit loose, affecting cut quality.

Wait what? TS55 and TS75 don't have the same 'feet'?

 

[glass1]

The metabo: has two separate hard plastic guides controlled by one knob. Not as good as the festool better than makita. What I like about the metabo is the one battery placement at the rear. The saw is not as wide and better balanced than the festool. I like having 2 saws. I just sold the old tsc 55 and bought the new one and i will do a comparison. I always felt the tsc 55 struggled with anything other than 3/4” ply. But the tsc 55 is a smooth machine with integrated Bluetooth batteries for dust collection when needed.

 

[mino]

Wait what? TS55 and TS75 don't have the same 'feet'?

Nope. The partial slides were introduced with late TS55 and full ones with the R refresh. The TS75 was not updated yet.

This would require a new bottom plate, so probably it is such a slow seller Festool figured it not worth to update it just for this.

Also, the slides solved accuracy issues with the smaller saws (contact points were too close to each other) while the TS 75 never had this issue.