"Fixed" my Angle Unit
- Thread starter JayStPeter
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JayStPeter
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The angle unit isn't about accurately setting a specific angle, it's about repeatably getting the same angle (at least in my mind). I usually clamp my rail where I want it and use it to setup the angle unit the first time (usually takes a couple iterations to get right). Since that was almost always 90 degrees, I now can go straight to work without the setup. Wow, it's over $70 now. I think it was around $45 a few years ago when I bought it.
This is not the solution for 99.99% of the plunge saw users but it is a deadly accurate and repeatable way to set the rail for angles. And for those lucky enough to own one it a fantastic solution. http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/groups.asp?GroupID=395
But at the current price of $400 it as way out of reach for most.
jim
But at the current price of $400 it as way out of reach for most.
jim
Overtime
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Jim's info on the starrett has led me to pull out my Bosch Miterfinder DWM40L and see how it could be used to set up at the MFT.
The Bosch extrusions are thick enough that they rest nicely against both the rail and the fence enabling a reasonably quick way to set up any angle. It also has an extension bracket to extend the length of one arm.
While the Bosch cannot be "locked" in place it has enough friction to hold a position while fixing the MFT fence to the required angle while the didital redout gives a constant verification of the angle.
These go on sale on amazon at times making them a good deal. Close to the festool Angle unit in cost and with extra uses. I originally got one for a crown molding project and it was very helpful. I can see that it will now make the weakness oft the MFT's fence angle set up a little more accurate.
The product Bosch DWM40L Miterfinder
The Bosch extrusions are thick enough that they rest nicely against both the rail and the fence enabling a reasonably quick way to set up any angle. It also has an extension bracket to extend the length of one arm.
While the Bosch cannot be "locked" in place it has enough friction to hold a position while fixing the MFT fence to the required angle while the didital redout gives a constant verification of the angle.
These go on sale on amazon at times making them a good deal. Close to the festool Angle unit in cost and with extra uses. I originally got one for a crown molding project and it was very helpful. I can see that it will now make the weakness oft the MFT's fence angle set up a little more accurate.
The product Bosch DWM40L Miterfinder
I think this is more about the Angle Unit and not the MFT's Angle Stop.
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I bought the guide rail accessory kit hoping that the Angle Unit would essentially turn my guide rail in to a T-Square of sorts. Unfortunately, I didn't do any research into how the Germans thought the thing should work, I brought my own expectations into the purchase, and my expectations were dead wrong.
I am sad that the angle unit ended up being the worst Festool purchase I've made so far - it was the second Festool product I bought (after my TS-75) and I was actually kind of put off on Festool products for a while after that mistake. Before I realized that the thing didn't hold a setting like I thought it should, I ruined a piece of walnut veneer plywood. Haven't used it since.
This really was my mistake - I'm guessing the intention of the Angle Unit is more to find the angle at which the guide rail is set, not to set the angle at which the guide rail is placed. No amount of trig or calculus would have prevented my disappointment in realizing my mistake. I should have done more research (it didn't come with a manual) but I was new to Festool and based on the quality of the saw, I had erroneous expectations. I got the AU to tide me over till I could afford an MFT, but it just isn't any substitute.
I'm going to try to lock my Angle Unit at 90 degrees - that is really all I want. Just a T-square for the guide rail. Trig certainly has its place, but I was looking for an addition to the guide rail to make square cuts faster and easier (and smarter?).
[attachimg=#]
I bought the guide rail accessory kit hoping that the Angle Unit would essentially turn my guide rail in to a T-Square of sorts. Unfortunately, I didn't do any research into how the Germans thought the thing should work, I brought my own expectations into the purchase, and my expectations were dead wrong.
I am sad that the angle unit ended up being the worst Festool purchase I've made so far - it was the second Festool product I bought (after my TS-75) and I was actually kind of put off on Festool products for a while after that mistake. Before I realized that the thing didn't hold a setting like I thought it should, I ruined a piece of walnut veneer plywood. Haven't used it since.
This really was my mistake - I'm guessing the intention of the Angle Unit is more to find the angle at which the guide rail is set, not to set the angle at which the guide rail is placed. No amount of trig or calculus would have prevented my disappointment in realizing my mistake. I should have done more research (it didn't come with a manual) but I was new to Festool and based on the quality of the saw, I had erroneous expectations. I got the AU to tide me over till I could afford an MFT, but it just isn't any substitute.
I'm going to try to lock my Angle Unit at 90 degrees - that is really all I want. Just a T-square for the guide rail. Trig certainly has its place, but I was looking for an addition to the guide rail to make square cuts faster and easier (and smarter?).
JayStPeter
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graphex said:
I don't think anyone thinks (or probably intended) this to be a measuring device. It just doesn't hold a setting as delivered. It hosed me a few years ago and sat since then. I got it out a couple weeks ago thinking I could be careful enough to cut a few parts. Now I have a cabinet to saw up.
On a positive note, I used my square unit to cut a few parts yesterday and it continues to work great. Putting that screw in it made it very useful.
Corwin
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graphex said:
A speed square (or carpenter's triangle) works great for 90 degree setups. I'll leave my Angle Unit for, well, other angles. Changing out the spring may be another answer, but the added washer does make the unit function as advertised -- it will hold its angle. Who knows, now I may actually use it sometime...
I certainly would think twice before 'locking' your Angle Unit at 90. Just my opinion.
I use a speed square now, but it is nice to have something that fits in to the rail. I initially thought the thing locked itself to the rail.
Has anyone found a way to fully lock the Angle Unit into the slot of the rail? Seems like that would be the easiest way to work with larger pieces of plywood - just lift the rail + angle unit as one piece, line up the "free" edge of the angle unit, and cut.
Has anyone found a way to fully lock the Angle Unit into the slot of the rail? Seems like that would be the easiest way to work with larger pieces of plywood - just lift the rail + angle unit as one piece, line up the "free" edge of the angle unit, and cut.
Corwin
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The Angle Unit can easily be attached via a bolt and Tee nut. Sorry about this picture, but it was already in my gallery and shows the head of the bolt while fixed in place. You will want to tighten in place while indexed properly in slot or you may not be happy will the results.
Overtime
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Well after some more high tech lab tests :
using the angle unit as intended by the creators. I have found that my unit is very stable and holds it's setting quite well. (For now). With out any modifications like washers and sandpaper. It did take a good whack to knock it off coarse.
The rail and angle unit must be "carefully" positioned to the work piece bringing all three components smoothly into place.
The rubber strips on the underside of the rails make this a little tricky as they stick to the stock and in a way inhibit bringing all 3 together for alignment before the cut. But once the alignment is made your home free.
It's not much different then using the MFT fence when squared to the rail at 90 deg. If you slam a heavy piece of ply into it you just might want to recheck for square. The only thing that holds the position is the tightening of the knobs, detents or no detents.. So some care needs to be part of the set up.
Is there "anyone" who uses this accessory on a regular basis with consitant results ??
using the angle unit as intended by the creators. I have found that my unit is very stable and holds it's setting quite well. (For now). With out any modifications like washers and sandpaper. It did take a good whack to knock it off coarse.The rail and angle unit must be "carefully" positioned to the work piece bringing all three components smoothly into place.
The rubber strips on the underside of the rails make this a little tricky as they stick to the stock and in a way inhibit bringing all 3 together for alignment before the cut. But once the alignment is made your home free.
It's not much different then using the MFT fence when squared to the rail at 90 deg. If you slam a heavy piece of ply into it you just might want to recheck for square. The only thing that holds the position is the tightening of the knobs, detents or no detents.. So some care needs to be part of the set up.
Is there "anyone" who uses this accessory on a regular basis with consitant results ??
Steve Jones
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Yes, I use mine all the time, No it's not particularly solid like a square, but I figure it's not supposed to be.
(when I want square ie 90 degrees I use a square - or the MFT - or my cutting table)
I find I usually use the device to 'read' the angle, since the rail 'sticks' to the surface, the AU would have to be excessively solid to move the rail, so I adjust the rail using the AU as an indicator, the 'locking' knob works more like an adjustable drag, I assume that is the reason the AU does not lock into the track, it needs to slide to make adjusting the angle (by moving the rail) possible.
Maybe I'm using it all backwards, maybe I missed the point entirely - it just works and everything makes logical sense to use it this way.
(when I want square ie 90 degrees I use a square - or the MFT - or my cutting table)
I find I usually use the device to 'read' the angle, since the rail 'sticks' to the surface, the AU would have to be excessively solid to move the rail, so I adjust the rail using the AU as an indicator, the 'locking' knob works more like an adjustable drag, I assume that is the reason the AU does not lock into the track, it needs to slide to make adjusting the angle (by moving the rail) possible.
Maybe I'm using it all backwards, maybe I missed the point entirely - it just works and everything makes logical sense to use it this way.
JayStPeter
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Overtime said:
I'd at least use the washer trick. It won't hold the setting for long. As soon as you think you've got a method down for keeping it set it'll let you down.
Steve Jones said:
If that works for you great. But, I don't see the point. There are a lot of devices out there that can do a better job of measuring an angle. Even if that was the designers intention for it, it's SO easy to knock out of alignment that it still needs one of the fixes described in this thread.
As lots of people mused, you can use squares to set the rail in place and it works. It's just more time consuming than using the AU the way it was intended (IMO, I guess) to be used. I figure it takes me about 1/3 the time to get the rail set square and on my mark with the modified AU. It also makes it much easier to use my repeatability jig to set the rail position in one iteration instead of a few. Every time I tap the rail into square, it moves slightly off my setting necessitating another iteration.
colevalleytim
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Yeah I use mu angle unit all the time. It I need it to be dead 90 for a cut, I lay it up net to the edge of the MFT top, tighten it and go. I don't have the cutting guide etc attached to the MFT all of the time, so this is pretty speedy for 1 or 2 cuts.
tim
tim
Dave Ronyak
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Corwin said:
This discussion (and others before it) are exactly why I purchased one of Woodpeckers 18" carpenter's squares. I can mark most cabinet pieces to be cut from sheet goods using this large, accurate square, then set the guide rail on that line. And it makes a great tool for set up of the MFT fence and guide rail for crosscutting at 90 and 45 degrees. Its large size enables it to also be used to confirm that the lengthwise sides of sheet goods are parallel, simply by registering it against one side edge of the sheet and drawing a line at 90 degrees, then flipping the square to register against the opposite side edge and drawing what should be the continuation of the first line if the side edges are parallel. But this large 45-45-90 degrees square won't work for other angles. For those, if you need to make a series of identical angle cuts from sheet materials, you could make your own single angle guide using your MFT. CMS or whatever to cut the needed angle from a piece of MDF. After attaching a fence to the underside of your angled MDF piece, it can be butted against the side edge of the sheet material you want to cut repeatedly at a specific angle, and the back edge of your guide rail butted up against your shop made MDF angle guide. IF you attach the fence to the base of MDF guide before cutting the mitre angle, you can be sure the angle between the baseline (set against the MFT fence when making the angle guide) and the mitre angle edge of your shop made guide will be what you intend. A set of such guides with different angles can be quickly made, and can be re-trued on your MFT whenever needed. You could also make one angle guide with angle A, cut all the pieces needing angle A, then trim the guide to angle B, etc. if you don't want to make a series of guides.
Dave R.
johnrichardson
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graphex said:
John,
The t square from Woodpeckers is hard to beat. Comes in a 3 size IIRC. Beaware that the end that locates on the edge of the board, has a lip which makes it kind of hard to use it to square you rail. I just draw a line and align the guide rail to the line.
The t square from Woodpeckers is hard to beat. Comes in a 3 size IIRC. Beaware that the end that locates on the edge of the board, has a lip which makes it kind of hard to use it to square you rail. I just draw a line and align the guide rail to the line.
johnrichardson
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Yes that square looks the business... I am in Uk wonder if i can get one over here. I notice its all imperial measurements , Im all used to metric by now... maybe they do a EU version particularly like the pre drilled marking holes for easy positioning of shelf supports and the like thanks for the info... john ;D
