FWW Vac Review

M

Marhk

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
9
Would anyone want to comment on the vac review in the latest FWW? It appears that they measured CFM using the smaller standard hose of the Festool vs the larger hose included with the others? They found that the CT 26 had a working airflow of 31 vs the Bosch (winner) which had 77. At least they found that the Festool was quiet.
 
If you read the testing methodology, and please forgive me because I don't have it right in front of me, they tested without a bag. Since our CTs use the bag as a preliminary filter, capturing a huge amount of the dust before it gets to the main filters, it was not tested in real world conditions in my opinion. It leaves the main filters to get clogged with dust. The vacuum that posted the best CFM numbers had an automated filter cleaning mechanism. I have to question the reasoning behind testing without the provided filter bag installed.

Shane
 
I question testing methodologies in Magazine reviews...so many variables and assumptions that I am not sure how reliable they really are. 

I do have a question as it relates to Festool, though -- is the CFM measured at the inlet to the vacuum or is it through the hose?  I wonder what the CFM is through the D27 and D36 hoses (standard length)...not that it really matters much as I do find my CT22 has amazing collection and works as intended.  I also love the fact that I do not get zapped with static electricity build-up as has happened when I use other brand vacs.

Scot
 
Just read the review online, no mention about the Festool vac being certified for lead dust containment. Once again the testing was done in such a way as to skew the results in favour of the brand they wanted to win. I saw 2 DeWalts listed and no Makita plus they missed a few other quality brands they previously tested.Would have been real interesting if they had used the machines properly with the bags in and did a flow test at various stages of fullness. Shane you guys really have to get your advertising dollars up with with FWW if you expect proper results.

John
 
Taunton Press.

Nice thing is members here can give them a phone call and a piece of their mind, if you so choose.
 
junk said:
Shane you guys really have to get your advertising dollars up with with FWW if you expect proper results.
Click to expand...

Advertising shouldn't influence reviews. They should be independent and fact based. I say that as a consumer, not as an employee of Festool.

Edit: I should point out that the vac selected to have the highest CFM using their testing methodology actually has 5% less CFM on paper. Festool's specifications tend to be very conservative, especially compared to other manufacturers. An under-promise, over deliver mentality.
 
I'm going to admit first that I have not seen the review.  Regardless of how they scored the lineup we all know that when used in concert with other Festool hardware there is no better dust collector than the Festool brand.  'nuff said.
 
I cancelled my online annual membership two weeks ago.  I got so much from their site then a lot of it was somewhat repetitive, so I didn't renew.
 
Shane Holland said:
junk said:
Shane you guys really have to get your advertising dollars up with with FWW if you expect proper results.
Click to expand...

Advertising shouldn't influence reviews. They should be independent and fact based. I say that as a consumer, not as an employee of Festool.

Edit: I should point out that the vac selected to have the highest CFM using their testing methodology actually has 5% less CFM on paper. Festool's specifications tend to be very conservative, especially compared to other manufacturers. An under-promise, over deliver mentality.
Click to expand...

Well said.  All I know is what I have used and tested in my own shop on projects and I am thrilled with the performance of my Festool tools -- the CT is awesome and works better than anything else I have used.  I think that testing methodologies are all different and skewed one way or the other -- that is one reason why different magazines review the same tools and come up with different results.  I think that there is a lot of subjectivity in these tests to really be valid.  I guess the 30 Day guarantee Festool offers speaks for itself -- you get to buy something and try it out and see how well it works for you before committing.  That is proof in the quality of a manufacturer.  

Scot
 
Well, in my past experiences with them, they seemed like a nice group of people, so maybe what they need is to hear from the public about issues we have with their magazines and website.

800-477-8727  Mon-Fri 9-5 EST
 
I could not believe what they said in the review. They claimed most people would use the vacs without any bags as they cost too much so they tested them without. Of course the winner had a filter cleaning system that would not be needed if the bags were used. Crazy!!!!!!
 
I am not bothered by magazine reviews because I no longer read them.  I let all my WW mag subscriptions expire several years ago.  Their reviews are bogus and are largely just editorial opinion of the reviewer.   I want the facts and develop my own opinions from those.  Nothing is more irritating to me than the tags "Editors Choice" or "Best Value" in these idiotic "reviews".
 
The CTs can be used without bags but it's not recommended for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. It would leave the HEPA filter exposed to a lot of debris and fine dust, leading it to premature wear and clogging. Yes, bags are removed for wet operation.

I'm certainly not trying to cause anyone to end their subscriptions. The facts are that magazines make their money from advertisers. To what extent that influences reviews, who knows. Just take what you read with a grain of salt and make sure you understand the conditions under which products are tested to see if they mimic your own applications. The best information is probably the unbiased opinions of your peers.
 
Don't think you guys have anything to worry about.
I'm pretty sure everyone here on fog is pretty well versed on how well the CTs work  ;)
 
Steve Rowe said:
Nothing is more irritating to me than the tags "Editors Choice" or "Best Value" in these idiotic "reviews".
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I can tell you from personal experience as the owner of a woodworking supply company that did lots of magazine advertising, magazine editors definitely know the advertising value of an "Editors Choice" designation. I don't think that you will ever see those designations go away in favor of (only) a matrix of features. On the other hand, my company's products were occasionally left out of product reviews when I felt like they should have been included. When I would call to complain, the advertising rep would point out that editorial and advertising were separate, to which I would respond, "If the editors don't know about my products with all the advertising I do in your magazine, I am wasting my money." I was not as concerned with the results of the reviews (although our products were generally well received) as I was concerned when we were omitted.

Advertising is a tricky business for magazines. Until the advent of the internet, most companies spent a large portion of their advertising budget on magazine advertising to promote their products. Most magazines are now struggling as advertising revenues fall (witness declining page counts). Few magazines (other than Shop Notes) can make it on subscription revenues alone, but they need to maintain separation of editorial and advertising lest they appear to be simply collections of advertorials. Some do a better job of this than others.

Jim Ray
 
greenMonster said:
Don't think you guys have anything to worry about.
I'm pretty sure everyone here on fog is pretty well versed on how well the CTs work   ;)
Click to expand...

What's a CT?  ???  ???    [big grin]

Seth
 
That review struck me as totally bogus.  How are you supposed to empty the Ct or the other vacs if you don't use bags?  The dust that passes thru a dust deputy or similar device is the most harmful.  So to save the cost of a bag I'm supposed to lift up the vac and dump the fine dust into a trash can???  They should add the cost of lung disease to the review.

Reminds me of when they reviewed different joinery types and only used a single domino where doubles were obviously called for.

Hope FWW gets lots of phone calls, emails, and letters to the editor on this one.  They need to step up to better methods of work.
 
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