getting ready to buy kapex, advice sought

[Hotwheels]

I delayed purchasing a Kapex after initial reports of problems ... then I bought the saw and it sat for a few weeks before I could use it for a variety of cuts. After some use, the scrapping problem emerged. My dealer (Bill at Festool Supply) responded quickly and so did Festool. A replacement plate was sent and about of minute of install later I was back in business ... maybe there will be a redesign of the miter handle and plate ... that would not make me wait. I find the handle fine and since Festool made the scrapping right, they did what I expect. Some people have complained about the trigger and handle, but after about 10 cuts it was a non issue for me.

My take is that any tool or human made device will have problems and you pay for people who stand behind what they produce and Festool met my expectations there.

I have kept my Makita LS1013, but I don't go to it much now. I really like the accuracy of the laser on the Kapex, the dust collection is not perfect, but it is an improvement over the Makita. I like the miter scale, it is easier for me to use than the Makita. I am very happy with the Kapex and it fits with the rest of my Festools so that works for me.

Cost, price, and value and variables for each of us depending on our work style and needs. I am happy with my Kapex and I am happy with my Makita. I feel as if I get more accurate cuts with the Kapex because the angles are easier to read and set. When I am doing trim, it makes all the difference. When I am doing cross cuts on 2x material, it makes no difference between the Kapex and Makita.

If I used my miter saw all the time for trim and crown, I would stick with Kapex. If it was a more general use saw, then it would depend on the difference in dust collection and ergonomics.

Maybe saws are getting to be like purchasing electronics ... you can always wait, but there is a cost to waiting for whatever improvement may or may not happen. An improved handle would not make me interested in waiting if I needed a precision miter saw now. YMMV.

Good luck,
JR

 

[bonesbr549]

I've been out of it for a while, but I'll chime in.  I started the poll thread and was originally in the wait till resolved camp.  I decided to get off the fence and got it. I got mine from festool junkie and he went over it prior to shipment and followed up.  I've only had time to use it a bit and no problems with the handle.  I had to pack up and move across the country.  If an issue did pop up, I'm confident it would be resolved.  Thats jus me.  Again no problems with the scraping here.

 

[erikfsn]

I wanted to thank everybody for their input, this is a great place.

I've decided to get one today. I'm probably going to get the sawhelper ultrafence set rather than
the mft/kapex because I'd still need wings if I got the mft. Just have to check the weight of the unit.

gotta go.

 

[nickao]

The most important thing is to make sawdust! Good luck and I truly hope your Kapex works out for you.  I will not ever change my opinion though, you are rolling the dice here.

 

[MiterMaster]

I have no animosity toward you at all Miter, I am just disagreeing vehemently.

My recommendation:

Get the Makita and use the extra money for a domino.  A domino and the best performing miter saw with a track record, for the same price as the Kapex, its a no brainer.

A fully functional kapex with no issues would be nice. I still have reservations that even with no issues that the Kapex is worth putting off an additional tool purchase. If you have time and do not need an extra tool or two, take a chance and go for it.

I saw nothing on the kapex that warranted 1300.00. I do see why an RO 150 or a domino is worth the coin, but not the Kapex in its current form.

Admission of a Festool addict.

No problem, we all have our own likes and dislikes.  The Makita is a nice saw, I've used it for many years (LS1013).  However, one thing I never really got comfortable with was the miter scale being off to the side, it's a very odd design.  I feel it is also a bit dated as well and could definately use a face lift. 

Mike

 

[Bro]

This is my first post on this forum.  I have observed all the threads about the Kapex and can't stand to listen to this any longer with out throwing in my two cents!

First of all, even if the saw didn't have the scraping issue there is no way it is worth $1,300.00.  Some of the issues I think need address while I used it.

The handle is the most uncomfortable of any saw I have used.  The stupid safety trigger is made for diy'ers  I would not consider a saw like that to use all day every day.

The miter table is a POS and not just because it scrapes.  It's stiff, not smooth at all and has no detent override.  The miter table is one of the most important features of any miter saw and Festool screwed this one up.  The saw I used was so hard to turn I had to grab the fence to change the miter setting. 

The guard can not be thumbed up out of the way.  It also grabs on any sharp outside corner which is a real PITA. (another bad design).

The dust collection is not as good as advertised.  No way does that saw collect 90% of the saw dust.  Plus the dust scroud needs removed to make certain cuts and bumps into just about everything.

When you turn the miter table all the way to the left it bumps into the angle finder.  WTF

If you want a good saw take a look at the Dewalt 712 8 1/2" or the Makita 10" or the Milwaukee 12"  all three of these saws blow the Kapex away.

For all of you die hard Festool guys I own at least $5000.00 in Festool and I'm a professional Carpenter.  Wake up and stop making excuses for an inferior product.

Why do you think Festool makes such good routers and plunge saws?  Because they have been making them for many years.  How long have they been making miter saws?  They have a long way to go.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Just my two cents. I own a Kapex, mated to a Sawhelper rig, and I love it!! I have also owned a Makita LS1013F and a LS1214FL. The Makitas are great saws. My on-site experience is that the Kapex is also a great saw, and I would prefer the Kapex over any other saw available on the market. No it's not perfect, but name one other saw on the market that is. Yup, it's spendy. Has it paid for itself with increased speed and accuracy on my projects? Yup. Again, my two cents. If you do decide to buy one, make sure to check it out in the store, since it sounds like some users have experienced problems. Good luck!

 

[b_m_hart]

Picked one up, used it for the last 29 days.  I'm not doing anything terribly exotic with it, and honestly, I can't justify the expense, the value just isn't there for me.  I've never once thought of returning any of the other tools I've bought from Festool, even the jigsaw I just picked up.  This, is different however.

I don't earn a living with this, and I'm not skilled enough to know the difference between this and my brother's saw that cost 1/4 of what the Festool does.  The cuts are smoother, that's about it.  Is that worth $900 to me?  Nope.

 

[jaegerhund]

Not being a professional carpenter myself, can someone who is a pro explain to me how the Kapex can earn you money and save you time as compared to a more moderate priced saw. 

Thanks,

Justin

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Not being a professional carpenter myself, can someone who is a pro explain to me how the Kapex can earn you money and save you time as compared to a more moderate priced saw.   

Thanks,

Justin

Hi there Justin! Kapex is small, light, easy to carry on to jobsites, making me more likely to use it where I might otherwise have tried to "get-by" with something less. Spend less time cleaning up at the end of the day, more money in pocket. The dual lasers, once dialed-in to your liking, make lining up cuts faster, no dropping the blade multiple times to check the cut, just line up the laser and cut. I like having the aluminum and other specialty blades available. I know a lot of guys just swap out a junker blade, but I like having the Universal blade for, well, general carpentry (mostly 2x and framing), Fine blade for trim, and Aluminum blade for installing storm doors, gutters, downspouts, etc... The blade change is really easy and fast, and this way I'm more likely to use the correct blade for the job, rather than "getting-by" or trying to guess before a trim job what I last used the blade on.

For myself, the BIGGEST reason I like the Kapex over other available saws is the accuracy and ease of bevel adjustment. I cut a LOT of really tall baseboard, too tall for even the big Dewalts and now the Milwaukee, so I have to cut that base flat. The accuracy and ease of the bevel adjustment help me to work both more accurately as well as more quickly. So, more accurate cuts, fewer trips to the saw to adjust, more base I can run and get home at a decent time. The other saws on the market, I just find too time consuming to accurately adjust the bevel.

Again, this has just been my experience, everybody of course has different circumstances, wants, and needs. If I were to recommend a saw other than the Kapex, I'd say Makita LS1013FL would be first pick, followed by (no particular order now) Bosch 10" or the new DW717. I've also heard good things about the Hitachi 10", and the 7.5" Makita slider looks like a great saw as well.

 

[jaegerhund]

Cool -- thanks for the info Tom ---- working day in and day out gives you an appreciation us "weekend warriors" might not understand at first glance.  Glad the Kapex works for you and I hope the kinks get worked out of the saw for everyone's sake.  I'll have no need to own one any time soon but it would be nice to see this saw fulfill all the expectations that it initially generated. 

Justin

 

[Brice Burrell]

This is my first post on this forum.  I have observed all the threads about the Kapex and can't stand to listen to this any longer with out throwing in my two cents!

First of all, even if the saw didn't have the scraping issue there is no way it is worth $1,300.00.  Some of the issues I think need address while I used it.................

Bro, welcome to the forum.

I wrote a lengthy reply to some of your comments but the power went out and I lost it all. So, here's the (very) short version because I'm not writing all of that again.

The safety trigger is a standard European safety feature on saws and that's why the Kapex has it. I got used to the handle in less than an hour, seems most people do too. The Kapex does have a detent override. I found the saw collects around 80%-90% of the dust. The amount of material being removed in the cut is a big factor in the perception of it's effectiveness. Thick stock being cut on a compound miter, the 10%-20% of the dust not collected seems like a lot compared to that of cutting quarter round or shoe. The bottom line is the facts should be represented correctly, opinions expressed from realistic expectations and extensive hands on use. Sure the Kapex isn't for everyone but it does have some unique features that some users find to be of great value.

 

[MiterMaster]

...The handle is the most uncomfortable of any saw I have used.  The stupid safety trigger is made for diy'ers...

At 1st I did not like the handle, I was used to the multi-positional handle on the Bosch.  However after a short while of using the Kapex I have grown to like it, and am now perfectly comfortable with it.  Another plus is since the handle is directly vertical to the material, I find there is less blade deflection, which results in more accurate cuts.

I do not feel any safety device is "stupid", and definately not just for the DIY crowd.  I remember a while ago I was working a job, was towards the end of a long day, and I accidentally turned on the trigger of the Bosch I was using at the time, scarred the crap out of me!  I was not injured, but if at that point in time I had the Kapex, this would of prevented that from happening.  So, again I do not feel any safety features are stupid.  It may take you an extra second to turn the saw on, but I'll take that any day over an accident.

...The guard can not be thumbed up out of the way.  It also grabs on any sharp outside corner which is a real PITA. (another bad design).  The dust collection is not as good as advertised.  No way does that saw collect 90% of the saw dust.  Plus the dust scroud needs removed to make certain cuts and bumps into just about everything....

At times the blade guard does catch on sharp miters, I agree.  However, I solved this issue by using a dremel and griding away part of the guard and this no longer happens.  I feel the dust collection is far superior to any other saw I have used, and over the years I've tried them all.  What vac were you using with your saw?  If you're using the standard hose on the CT, upgrade to the larger hose, it makes a world of difference.  I do find at times the dust shroud does hit the fence, easily corrected by moving the fence over a bit, not a big deal for me.  I find the larger shroud is what helps capture more dust.

When you turn the miter table all the way to the left it bumps into the angle finder.  If you want a good saw take a look at the Dewalt 712 8 1/2" or the Makita 10" or the Milwaukee 12"  all three of these saws blow the Kapex away.

Yes, when you swing all the way to the right it does bump the miter finder, I actually have not even used this device.  I've been using the Starrett angle finder for so long I continue using that.  I've no experience with the DeWALT saw, but I have used the 10" Makita for years, you want to talk about an odd miter scale, that one wins hands down.  I never could get used to the miter scale being off to the side.  Also, the Makita is not as accurate as the Kapex, at least the one I had was not.  The new Milwaukee I have not used, but I do not need a 12" saw, it's also too heavy for me to carry around day in day out.

Mike

 

[Bro]

This is my first post on this forum.  I have observed all the threads about the Kapex and can't stand to listen to this any longer with out throwing in my two cents!

First of all, even if the saw didn't have the scraping issue there is no way it is worth $1,300.00.  Some of the issues I think need address while I used it.................

Bro, welcome to the forum.

I wrote a lengthy reply to some of your comments but the power went out and I lost it all. So, here's the (very) short version because I'm not writing all of that again.

The safety trigger is a standard European safety feature on saws and that's why the Kapex has it. I got used to the handle in less than an hour, seems most people do too. The Kapex does have a detent override. I found the saw collects around 80%-90% of the dust. The amount of material being removed in the cut is a big factor in the perception of it's effectiveness. Thick stock being cut on a compound miter, the 10%-20% of the dust not collected seems like a lot compared to that of cutting quarter round or shoe. The bottom line is the facts should be represented correctly, opinions expressed from realistic expectations and extensive hands on use. Sure the Kapex isn't for everyone but it does have some unique features that some users find to be of great value.

I read your review on your own Festool web site.  It is totally bias and you are obviously in bed with Festool.  How many negitive issues did you bring up?  That review was nothing more than promotional literature.

What I stated in my earlier post are my observations of the tool based on 25 years as a carpenter.  They are correct.  You make such a big deal out of the bevel adjustment, while I agree it is nice, how much does it get used?  A finish carpenter spends the majority of his time using the miter table.  You only use the bevel if you are cutting tall base or crown.  Cutting in postion is much faster.  Rememeber it is about speed, at least Festool says so.  That saw is the most over priced tool I have witnessed in my 25 years in the business.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

This is my first post on this forum.  I have observed all the threads about the Kapex and can't stand to listen to this any longer with out throwing in my two cents!

First of all, even if the saw didn't have the scraping issue there is no way it is worth $1,300.00.  Some of the issues I think need address while I used it.................

Bro, welcome to the forum.

I wrote a lengthy reply to some of your comments but the power went out and I lost it all. So, here's the (very) short version because I'm not writing all of that again.

The safety trigger is a standard European safety feature on saws and that's why the Kapex has it. I got used to the handle in less than an hour, seems most people do too. The Kapex does have a detent override. I found the saw collects around 80%-90% of the dust. The amount of material being removed in the cut is a big factor in the perception of it's effectiveness. Thick stock being cut on a compound miter, the 10%-20% of the dust not collected seems like a lot compared to that of cutting quarter round or shoe. The bottom line is the facts should be represented correctly, opinions expressed from realistic expectations and extensive hands on use. Sure the Kapex isn't for everyone but it does have some unique features that some users find to be of great value.

I read your review on your own Festool web site.  It is totally bias and you are obviously in bed with Festool.  How many negitive issues did you bring up?  That review was nothing more than promotional literature.

What I stated in my earlier post are my observations of the tool based on 25 years as a carpenter.  They are correct.  You make such a big deal out of the bevel adjustment, while I agree it is nice, how much does it get used?  A finish carpenter spends the majority of his time using the miter table.  You only use the bevel if you are cutting tall base or crown.  Cutting in postion is much faster.  Rememeber it is about speed, at least Festool says so.  That saw is the most over priced tool I have witnessed in my 25 years in the business.

A lot of my finish work involves cutting very large crown (5"+) and tons of 1x8 baseboard, thereby necessitating cutting the baseboard flat (I can still cut the crown in position). So, to me, the bevel adjustment is HUGE. With the Kapex, I rarely have to cut more than once. I go around with my Bosch digital angle finder, record the angle of every corner in the room as well as the angle of the wall to the floor for every given corner, so the miter is nice and tight the entire height of the board. What I often end up with in old houses is a bevel setting of around 45.5-46.5, and a miter setting of 0.5-1.5. So, for my applications, it's very important to me to be able to dial-in my cut, make the cut, and install the work, rather than making multiple trips to the saw to fine-tune the cut.

I do agree though that, for most finish applications with standard trim, most of a guy's cuts will be made with just the miter scale. I wonder if we can agree that the Kapex is a nifty saw, but one that a large majority of carpenters don't really need/want because standard miter saws work sufficiently well for the majority of the work they perform? 

 

[Steve Jones]

The Kapex does have a detent override.
Brice, you are incorrect.  a detent override turns off and dis-engages the detent locking, what the Kapex has is a detent release. go try any cheap Dewalt miter saw, they come with two detent controls, a release and an override. it's a usefull feature that certainly should be on any well designed miter saw. (it's also a feature that should be familiar to anyone reviewing professional equipment)

I found the saw collects around 80%-90% of the dust.
(About the same as my cheap Dewalt, and far from the claimed 98%)

The bottom line is the facts should be represented correctly,
If only the writer was aware of the actual facts, rather than a uncontrolled urge to blindly defend the product regardless of those facts.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

The Kapex does have a detent override.
Brice, you are incorrect.  a detent override turns off and dis-engages the detent locking, what the Kapex has is a detent release. go try any cheap Dewalt miter saw, they come with two detent controls, a release and an override. it's a usefull feature that certainly should be on any well designed miter saw. (it's also a feature that should be familiar to anyone reviewing professional equipment)

I respectfully disagree. I agree that the Dewalt saws have a system to disengage the miter detents, but which other saws have that feature? I know for sure that what is widely considered the premier miter saw series (Makita sliders) have no such system, neither does the Hitachi saws, I don't think the Bosch saws have it, and I don't think the new Milwaukee saws have it either. I agree that sounds like a nice feature, but I've never missed it, it's completely natural for me to just depress the thumb button to get past the detents. I'm just saying that it sounds like you're making a jab specifically at one saw, where maybe you could say you really like the feature and wish it was available on more than one or two brands of saw? 

 

[MiterMaster]

I respectfully disagree. I agree that the Dewalt saws have a system to disengage the miter detents, but which other saws have that feature? I know for sure that what is widely considered the premier miter saw series (Makita sliders) have no such system, neither does the Hitachi saws, I don't think the Bosch saws have it, and I don't think the new Milwaukee saws have it either. I agree that sounds like a nice feature, but I've never missed it, it's completely natural for me to just depress the thumb button to get past the detents. I'm just saying that it sounds like you're making a jab specifically at one saw, where maybe you could say you really like the feature and wish it was available on more than one or two brands of saw? 

The Bosch 5412L I just sold did have a detent over-ride, you could move the turntable without having to depress any lever when the detent was in place.

Mike

 

[Bro]

The Kapex does have a detent override.
Brice, you are incorrect.  a detent override turns off and dis-engages the detent locking, what the Kapex has is a detent release. go try any cheap Dewalt miter saw, they come with two detent controls, a release and an override. it's a usefull feature that certainly should be on any well designed miter saw. (it's also a feature that should be familiar to anyone reviewing professional equipment)

I respectfully disagree. I agree that the Dewalt saws have a system to disengage the miter detents, but which other saws have that feature? I know for sure that what is widely considered the premier miter saw series (Makita sliders) have no such system, neither does the Hitachi saws, I don't think the Bosch saws have it, and I don't think the new Milwaukee saws have it either. I agree that sounds like a nice feature, but I've never missed it, it's completely natural for me to just depress the thumb button to get past the detents. I'm just saying that it sounds like you're making a jab specifically at one saw, where maybe you could say you really like the feature and wish it was available on more than one or two brands of saw? 

The New Milwaukee has a detent override and also has a digital micro adjustment to boot.

 

[Brice Burrell]

..........The bottom line is the facts should be represented correctly,
If only the writer was aware of the actual facts, rather than a uncontrolled urge to blindly defend the product regardless of those facts.

I read your review on your own Festool web site.  It is totally bias and you are obviously in bed with Festool.   How many negitive issues did you bring up?  That review was nothing more than promotional literature.

You don't agree with me so you start personal attacks.  Is this how you think a discussion should take place? I hope you guys feel good about your behavior here.

I offer this to you both, if you are ever in Pittsburgh contact me and I'll let try out my Kapex. That way you'll be able to see for yourself the saw works just like I said it does (and as Festool advertises it).