Help needed to choose the right trimmer

[MaurizioVacca]

First thing first: hello everyone, first post here on FoG (long time lurker,  [big grin])!

I'm in the market for a trimmer and so far I'm mostly considering the MFK 700. Usages will mainly be trimming pre-glued edge banding (either ~1mm veneer edging or PVC) or ABS (depending on project).

I generally apply edge banding on squared edges or edges beveled at 30 to 45 degrees.

Can the MFK do that? What kind of bits do I need? I tried to watch videos and read the manuals but these things are still unclear to me, especially when it comes to working with beveled edges/profiles.

I'm opened to suggestion, tips and ideas. Consider that I already have the OF1010 which I use for pretty much everything that is "router-related". Thank in advance,

Best!

Maurizio

 

[xedos]

If you have an OF1010 - this will do the same job as an mk700
https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-486058-edging-plate-of-1010-and-of-1400.html

Can’t help with your 45deg.  question, sorry. 

 

[bertv]

For the MFK 700 (and its sister the OFK 700) there are just a 'few' cutters available, b/c of the max length (there is workaround here, PaulMarcel has posted about it); these are:

Turning plate edge trimming cutter
Turning plate chamfer cutter (45 degrees)
Chamfer cutters 15, 30 and 45 degrees
Classic ogee cutters radius 2 and 3 mm
Roundover cutters with reversible blades radius 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 mm
Edge trimming cutter diameter 19
Plane cutter for MFK 700 module edge router dial 28 mm

Hope this helps.
Everything mentioned here is on pages 238—240 if the International 2022 catalogue.

 

[afish]

Can you elaborate on "pre glued"  Im assuming you are talking about the iron on type or are you using a hot air bander?  If you are still using a manual method (Iron) I would say to skip the MFK700 completely and put that money and keep saving if necessary for something like a conturo.  This will provide you with the biggest time savings on edge banding projects. 

For trimming thinner pvc banding I get the best results from the push/pull carbide razor style.  I prefer the single sided ones.  Its the fastest cleanest method to remove the bulk of the excess edge banding and then follow up after with a small roundover in a cordless trimmer just to put a nice finish on it. 

I pretty much only use the MFK for real wood type edge banding do the razor types tendency to tear the grain easier.  Even though I own a MFK "I" consider it a specialized tool and there are muuuuch better investments for speeding up the work flow.  To answer your 45° question you will probably be best served by using vertical base with a surfacing bit like the festool 500368 or something like the Freud 1-1/4" (Dia.) Mortising Bit with 1/4" Shank (16-106) as a much cheaper alternative to the Festool bit.  Just make sure whatever router you use can clear the diameter of the bit you pick.  However that can also be done with just about any router ever made for a fraction of the cost of a MFK.  If you have the funds then go ahead and get it.   

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Thanks all for the answers, big value here for me.

[member=67935]xedos[/member]

If you have an OF1010 - this will do the same job as an mk700
https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-486058-edging-plate-of-1010-and-of-1400.html

Can’t help with your 45deg.  question, sorry. 

I know about the edging set, my concern is the OF1010 weight, which I don't find light enough to be used horizontally (I may give it a try anyway).

[member=73094]afish[/member]

Can you elaborate on "pre glued"  Im assuming you are talking about the iron on type or are you using a hot air bander?  If you are still using a manual method (Iron) I would say to skip the MFK700 completely and put that money and keep saving if necessary for something like a conturo.  This will provide you with the biggest time savings on edge banding projects. 

For trimming thinner pvc banding I get the best results from the push/pull carbide razor style.  I prefer the single sided ones.  Its the fastest cleanest method to remove the bulk of the excess edge banding and then follow up after with a small roundover in a cordless trimmer just to put a nice finish on it. 

I pretty much only use the MFK for real wood type edge banding do the razor types tendency to tear the grain easier.  Even though I own a MFK "I" consider it a specialized tool and there are muuuuch better investments for speeding up the work flow.  To answer your 45° question you will probably be best served by using vertical base with a surfacing bit like the festool 500368 or something like the Freud 1-1/4" (Dia.) Mortising Bit with 1/4" Shank (16-106) as a much cheaper alternative to the Festool bit.  Just make sure whatever router you use can clear the diameter of the bit you pick.  However that can also be done with just about any router ever made for a fraction of the cost of a MFK.  If you have the funds then go ahead and get it.   

Thanks! Yes I'm talking about the iron type ones. About the Conturo, can it also apply veneer edge banding? Sorry if the question sounds dumb, but I know literally nothing about this tool.

I'm currently working with push/pull trimmer (from Virutex, but I think they're pretty much all the same) and as you said it has the tendency to tear the grain making it really frustrating sometimes. This is the main issue I want to solve right now but as you pointed out the MFK may be overkill.

Best!

 

[Packard]

I use a chisel and a random orbital sander (wood, only). 

In many cases I just use the random orbital sander held at about a 30 degree angle.  I'm going to sand the face of the plywood and the edge banded surface anyway.  Light pressure from the sander makes fast work of the trimming, using 120 sandpaper. 

I rarely use the PVC trim. 

But I am not running a production shop, so take that with a grain of salt. 

 

[afish]

Yes the conturo will apply real wood edge banding too.  You can get 4 different colored glues which is really nice Black, white, natural, and a dark brown.  This helps camouflage the glue line.  I haaaaaaated ironing on edge banding back in the day.  The conturo has made it so much nicer.  There are several entry level edge banders.  I got the conturo since it is compact, NO glue pot, but space was the biggest reason.  Its nice that it does radiuses too.  Even though I didnt see it as a big selling point when I first bought it I ended up needing the feature shortly after getting it so the ability to do radius work ended up paying off right away.  I also know someone who has one of these and really likes it. However it lacks the ability to change color glue or do radius work.  If you do a lot of straight edge banding or doing some edge banding everyday then it might work but if you are only doing edge banding occasionally then the conturo is way better.  The no glue pot is a hug deal.  there is 2 things with the conturo you should be aware of
1. it applies the glue to the edge banding not the wood.  This isnt a huge deal but with pvc type banding the heat from the router can make the glue tacky so you need to keep an eye on the bearing of the cutter to make sure its not getting gummy.
2. you need/want the bench mount if you are trying to edge band narrow parts which is just extra money is all.

All in all the conturo is probably one of the best tools Festool makes.  If you need a budget version of the MFK then I would get a lil' lipper from fast cap and put it on a cordless trimmer and keep saving for a conturo.  I agree routing horizontal with the 1010 seems clunky and a last resort type of deal.  When you are routing like that comfort, nimbleness, ease is most important.  The more clunky, uncomfortable you make the process the more likely you are to ruin a part and I hate remaking things...  The lil' lipper wont offer the dust collection of the MFK which is just so so anyways IMO. Otherwise the lil' Lipper is hard to beat especially when used on a cordless trimmer.  You might even be able to use it on the 45° beveled edges if you can find a long enough bit but I havent tried it but it would seem to work at least in my head.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Makita RTO700CX4 every time. I've installed literally hundreds of kitchen countertops using one of these to trim edge-banding - everything from hardwood lipping though acrylic, PVC and putting a radius on acrylic resin synthetics such as Earthstone, Silestone, Corian and so on. Perfect results every time - and it weighs almost nothing.

There's also an 18v cordless version ....... Uses any quarter-inch cutter you can imagine.

But if you want the very, very best - Mafell KF1000. It's what I'll be buying when my faithful old Makita finally bites the dust. It has a clever 90-degree fence so it sits on the flat of the workpiece - not the edge.

 

[afish]

Both Dewalt or Makita make a good laminate trimmer.  Hats off to Makita for going the extra mile and offering different bases for theirs.  I wish the Dewalt had a tilt base like makita.  I will probably pick up a Makita one day and just use a battery adaptor if I need a tilt base.  I refuse to have multiple battery platforms.  For light duty trim jobs the cordless units cant be beat.  the freedom they offer and long run times is just fantastic.  I could never go back to a corded trim router.  Here is a video of the lil lipper.  The biggest negative is it likes to shoot the chips up.  Someone needs to 3d print a little deflector shield.  I have used some 2" masking tape stuck to the router base to form a shield if needed. 

 

[Vondawg]

[member=73094]afish[/member] has hit it on the head…all points…having a trim router in your hand, cordless is so freeing and having the machine stop instantly when turned off….its hard to think of going back

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Thanks [member=73094]afish[/member] and [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]

Both RTO700 and KF1000 are in the list of options, is just hard to move away from Festool ecosystem for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve few Bosch drills and the Lamello Zeta P2, but I’m huge fan of things that are compatible and work well together.

Anyway, I think I will give a shot to a surfacing bit I got for planing some slabs. I’ll try using it with the OF1010 and the FS rail… it should do the trick. Time to save for the Conturo

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Thanks [member=73094]afish[/member] and [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]

Both RTO700 and KF1000 are in the list of options, is just hard to move away from Festool ecosystem for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve few Bosch drills and the Lamello Zeta P2, but I’m huge fan of things that are compatible and work well together.

Anyway, I think I will give a shot to a surfacing bit I got for planing some slabs. I’ll try using it with the OF1010 and the FS rail… it should do the trick. Time to save for the Conturo

Don’t get sucked into the marketing hype of the ‘system’ which exists only in the minds of those gullible enough to believe it. Why deny yourself the opportunity to get something class-leading, just because it doesn’t come in a grey-and-green box?

In the back of my van you’ll find tools made by Festool, Hilti, Mirka, Fein, DeWalt, Makita, Lamello and Paslode. And you know what? Everything works JUST FINE with everything else. The only common denominator is that everything’s housed in Systainers to make the rack-out neat and tidy - but the Systainer isn’t a Festool product, it’s a Tanos one. Take off the blinkers and broaden your horizons…..

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm a big fan of the MFK700, going as far as owning/using two of them.
There are dozens of ways to do "normal" square edges. The tricky part that you mentioned is angled edges. This is solidly in the realm of hand work. None of the more automatic systems can handle it.
The Conturo and Cantek handheld units can both do straight or curved edges, but they have to be square to the face, and that's just applying it. Trimming it back off of a non-square edge takes some strategy, partly depending upon how far the edge is angled.
When it is way off, like 45 degrees, it gets quite challenging to do with any kind of speed. I do it with an MFK700, having the Paul Mercel modification. This allows you to use bits with a lot more cut length.
The most difficult part is actually the follower bearing. The one that comes with the MFK700 is just the typical metal bearing, that and the way it is mounted do not like following an angled edge that is beyond 15 degrees or so. I get around this by making custom angled blocks go mount where the round bearing is supposed to go. You still have to be careful to keep the base flat against the surface and not allow it to climb up the angle, but it is possible.
That said, I would avoid doing this at all if you can. You will get a much better looking edge by miter-folding onto the short side of the angle and then laminating/veneering the face of the long side face after. The thickness of the edging is exaggerated by being on an angle. When you flush-trim it, the look is different than a square edge.

 

[MaurizioVacca]

Don’t get sucked into the marketing hype of the ‘system’ which exists only in the minds of those gullible enough to believe it. Why deny yourself the opportunity to get something class-leading, just because it doesn’t come in a grey-and-green box?

Totally agree. What I mean is:

- I just cannot handle multiple battery platforms and unfortunately I probably went with the worst one (looking at you Festool) back when I made the decision. Today I would probably either go with Milwaukee or Makita;
- I don't like to rely on hose adapters and over everything else I need a good dust extraction. Most jobs are made on site and my current workshop is in a room inside my own apartment. So keeping it dust free is crucial (and that's why I'm adding a CT Midi in the incoming months).

if these requirements are matched, then the brand can be whatever, really.

Best!

 

[kitfit1]

Makita RTO700CX4 every time. I've installed literally hundreds of kitchen countertops using one of these to trim edge-banding - everything from hardwood lipping though acrylic, PVC and putting a radius on acrylic resin synthetics such as Earthstone, Silestone, Corian and so on. Perfect results every time - and it weighs almost nothing.

There's also an 18v cordless version ....... Uses any quarter-inch cutter you can imagine.

Agree 100% [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member]. I've been using the 110v version for years and years fitting kitchens. One thing you may not know though is that the plunge base and angle base are available for it from a company called Katsu. They are both a fraction of the price of the Makita parts. In fact, i'm fairly certain that Katsu make both bases for Makita because the quality is the same.

 

[afish]

Don’t get sucked into the marketing hype of the ‘system’ which exists only in the minds of those gullible enough to believe it. Why deny yourself the opportunity to get something class-leading, just because it doesn’t come in a grey-and-green box?

Totally agree. What I mean is:

- I just cannot handle multiple battery platforms and unfortunately I probably went with the worst one (looking at you Festool) back when I made the decision. Today I would probably either go with Milwaukee or Makita;
- I don't like to rely on hose adapters and over everything else I need a good dust extraction. Most jobs are made on site and my current workshop is in a room inside my own apartment. So keeping it dust free is crucial (and that's why I'm adding a CT Midi in the incoming months).

if these requirements are matched, then the brand can be whatever, really.

Best!

This is one case were the MFK might be the right choice.  Sometimes its hard to realize the full challenges others face.  Personally I cant imagine having or needing to do my WWP in my finished living space.  However some parts of the world this may be pretty common.  Just dont expect the MFK to get everything when hooked up to a CT or anything else for that matter.  I would guess its about 50% capture rate in most cases.  The vertical base might be better but I have never even used it.  Mine stays in horizontal mode 24/7 Its a tough call for me for 97% of the population its more of a luxury tool to me but if DC is that important then it may be worth the 500 bucks but remember the 500 is just the start if you want the basic bit its another $55 of and if you want the festool bits for the 1,2,3mm edge banding thats another $150 per bit.  It adds up fast.  There are other cheaper options though so I 1000% steer you away from the overpriced festool bits and yes I said overpriced.  For the most part I feel like the premium cost for Festool tools is usually justified.  However in the case of the bits its just them F'ing you.  Here are bits that work in the MFK for a fraction of the price.

1.  Bit for unmodified Horizontal base

2.  1, 2, & 3mm roundover bits

When I bought the 1mm round over nobody else made one, so I paid the 150 for the Festool.  Amana also offers them but they still only have the 2 and 3mm bits last I checked so I linked to the CMT since they have all 3.  Plus they even offer a 1.5 These bits perform every bit as good as the Festool ones for about 1/3 the price the only thing the Festool bits do better is empty your wallet. 

 

[squall_line]

This is one case were the MFK might be the right choice.  Sometimes its hard to realize the full challenges others face.  Personally I cant imagine having or needing to do my WWP in my finished living space.  However some parts of the world this may be pretty common.  Just dont expect the MFK to get everything when hooked up to a CT or anything else for that matter.  I would guess its about 50% capture rate in most cases.  The vertical base might be better but I have never even used it.  Mine stays in horizontal mode 24/7 Its a tough call for me for 97% of the population its more of a luxury tool to me but if DC is that important then it may be worth the 500 bucks but remember the 500 is just the start if you want the basic bit its another $55 of and if you want the festool bits for the 1,2,3mm edge banding thats another $150 per bit.  It adds up fast.  There are other cheaper options though so I 1000% steer you away from the overpriced festool bits and yes I said overpriced.  For the most part I feel like the premium cost for Festool tools is usually justified.  However in the case of the bits its just them F'ing you.  Here are bits that work in the MFK for a fraction of the price.

1.  Bit for unmodified Horizontal base

2.  1, 2, & 3mm roundover bits

When I bought the 1mm round over nobody else made one, so I paid the 150 for the Festool.  Amana also offers them but they still only have the 2 and 3mm bits last I checked so I linked to the CMT since they have all 3.  Plus they even offer a 1.5 These bits perform every bit as good as the Festool ones for about 1/3 the price the only thing the Festool bits do better is empty your wallet.

[member=73094]afish[/member] , allegedly the Festool performs a "trim and roundover" at the same time, but I've never looked into it closely enough to determine a) if that's true and b) how it does this. How does that differ from the insert bits of the CMT or Amana roundovers, if at all?

 

[afish]

there is virtually no difference between the bits the "trim and round over" is able to be performed due to the vertical base of the MFK having an extra plate that provides a space for the edge banding that overhangs.  This is only possible with the vertical base and please note there is two different model numbers for the V bases.  They are identical based on info I have gotten here and the part numbers on the festool site.  One just comes with the extra plate that screws on.  There is also a bearing brake that may or may not come on one or both.  Truthfully I cant remember and since I never use it vertically I dont care enough. 

The biggest reason why I dont use the vertical base has to do with the conturo.  As I mentioned the conturo applies the glue to the banding not the part.  This results in there being some extra glue above and below the part on the overhanging portion of the banding.  Typically most edge banders apply the glue to the part.  This results in less glue to remove.  The problem is the glue for most edge banding is heat activated so when you route it off the tiny pieces of edge banding plus the glue that is on it fly's off can become sticky again from the heat of routing process.  Its worse with pvc banding and the thicker you go.  Most likely because there is more heat build up cutting thicker material than thinner.  However since PVC banding 2mm and under trims very easy with the push pull razor type cutters its really a non issue. So, I dont see a ton of value in the "trim and roundover" in one step.  I prefer to trim it with the razor its easy and makes less mess and also keeps the bearings gum free. To recap my standard trimming workflow is like this

1. 1&2mm PVC applied with conturo=single edged razor type push/pull cutter to remove the bulk of the overhang followed up with the 1or2mm roundover in a cordless trim router to profile the edge and touch up with the festool carbide scraper and 320 sandpaper if needed. 3mm or over I would use the MFK in H mode to trim and follow up with the 3mm round over in the cordless again but I never use the 3mm stuff. 
2. real wood or laminate edge banding gets trimmed with the MFK with horizontal base or a cordless trimmer with a little Lipper first then rounded over with suitable roundover/no file bit in a cordless trim router if required.  Final pass with sanding block as needed.

I have always liked trimming and profiling in two steps.  By combining them into one has resulted in problems typically in the form of excess glue buildup and damaging the bearing which often leads to a damaged edge or burn before its caught.  When you profile the edge as a second step the finishing bit is only removing a tiny amount of material and virtually no glue so there is very little or no risk of damaging the part. 

 

[MaurizioVacca]

For the most part I feel like the premium cost for Festool tools is usually justified.  However in the case of the bits its just them F'ing you.  Here are bits that work in the MFK for a fraction of the price.

1.  Bit for unmodified Horizontal base

2.  1, 2, & 3mm roundover bits

When I bought the 1mm round over nobody else made one, so I paid the 150 for the Festool.  Amana also offers them but they still only have the 2 and 3mm bits last I checked so I linked to the CMT since they have all 3.  Plus they even offer a 1.5 These bits perform every bit as good as the Festool ones for about 1/3 the price the only thing the Festool bits do better is empty your wallet.

I feel the same. The only Festool bit I've is a boring bit for 5mm holes. Everything else is either from CMT, Bosch or Fraiser. The last bit I got is the surfacing bit and compared to the Festool one (the 500368) has interchangeable blades and costed me like 20-30€ less.

This time around I will give the OF1010 a try and see how it goes. I will probably end up ending adding the MFK anyway, but maybe I can postpone it for a bit. Having a trimmer will definitely speed up my process, especially when I have the OF1010 already set for something else.

Best!

 

[squall_line]

Having a trimmer will definitely speed up my process, especially when I have the OF1010 already set for something else.

Best!

This is exactly how/why people who deal with these things in a production environment own 3, 4, 5, or more trim routers, many cordless, each set up specifically for their given task.

*cough* *cough* [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] ...  [wink]