Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select

[jmbfestool]

Maybe look at the Wagner compact same as the Kremlin.

They both do two types a suction tube or a hopper.

Or

Wagner have the pump upside down and have a hopper best I’ve seen least paint wastage.

Kremlin is just a hopper attachment so you still have a metal tube wasting paint.

I’ll attach pictures so you can see what I mean.

I don’t know how much spraying you will be doing but seen as you talk about HVLP
I assume not a lot so I would advice a hopper system.

You use a lot less paint with a hopper fed system less paint to prime and less paint for cleaning.

Down side to hopper is if your spraying a lot of paint constantly filling up hopper but most hoppers take 5 litres so I’m sure that’s enough for what your doing.

As you can see metal tube will sit paint which is paint you waste just to prime machine. It’s a lot if you only have a 5 litre tin to spray.

[attachimg=1]

Wagner is the same

[attachimg=2]

Then Wagner do a compact one with hopper it’s upside down so no tube to waste paint.

[attachimg=3]

Oh forgot to mention the Wagner work at much higher pressures  the compact one goes up to 320bar compared to Kremlin 90bar.

 

[jmbfestool]

Edited above miss read what you said before
Sorry.

Also forgot about your experiment.

Just on your HVLP I’m curious what’s your experiment is.

HVLP turbine has its place but pressure with them is less than 1Bar normally about 0.7 bar

They can’t be more than 1Bar for regulation reasons.

Having such low pressure they are very much using the air from the air cap to break up the paint.

Hence why the paint needs to be very thin to Atomize.

I also found HVLP turbine is difficult to get paint into grooves and small mould details. 
You would have to really aim and target these grooves to get the paint in.

I learned that the reason for this is because the velocity of the paint is very low compared to the air velocity. 

So the paint is fighting the air to get to the surface.  The air is bouncing back out of the groove stoping the paint entering the groove.

 

[jmbfestool]

Thanks for all the good info and photos. I really like the Xcite gun and not too many issues with tip plugging. The 15C25 comes with a pump discharge filter and the gun has built in strainer above the swivel. This my setup with a Kremlin one pass heater

Oh sorry I looked at the gun and typed in filters and nothing popped up normally websites which sell the gun have tips and filters in accessories and that particular gun didn’t so asssumed it was just a swivel connection only.

Saying that the filter can’t be very big at all to fit inside there and it looks like it requires tools to remove and clean filter is that correct?

 

[jmbfestool]

I go on.

The Kremlin Xcite has no inline filter so I believe you have a higher chance of tip blockage.

I’ve attached my gun and Xcite which has no filter

The black section of my gun houses a large filter largest filter in the air asssited market.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

The Kremlin gun does have a filter, it is in the fitting that the fluid hose connects to.

I have a Graco and C.A.T. AAA guns.The y also have filters at the gun hose connection. I have a second filter housing mounted on all my pumps.

I have had a few plugs, I do strain the product and keep the equipment clean. I make sure I flush the hoses well after use.

Tom

Yeah sorry the swivel connection gave me doubt due to its size and it not popping up with a quick search I made a quick assumption it didn’t have a filter.

Always expect two filters one at pump and one just before gun. 

Block tips are very annoying.

Especially mid spraying a large panel

 

[jmbfestool]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

Got the little strainer in bottom of hopper then I use 100mesh in pump and  100 to 200 mesh in the gun. 

Wagner have a chart and 8 thou to 10 require 200mesh

I don’t always flush mine out to be honest.  If I’m using same product over a few days or week I leave it primed.  Only till I know I’m finished or change product do I give it a proper clean flush through.

Just had another quick search Xcite doesn’t really come up with much really.
Found a non UK site selling filters I think are for the gun?

View attachment 1

Still can’t tell if it’s tooles filter change.

 

[jmbfestool]

Found on Kijiji a Kremlin 15C25 ( 15:1) pump with Xcite gun, couple of extra tips, pump fluid and some filters. The seller says it is 5 years old and has only sprayed water based clears through it. Looks fairly clean in the photos. What type of questions should I ask them and what test can I do if I were to move forwrd on this. His asking price is $2400.00 CAD and paid $5100 CAD 5 years ago.

Cheers,
JC

Replying to your previous comment sorry you can’t get Wagner stuff! Shame!

Regarding this comment

I have no knowledge on the Kremlin pump but going off a graco piston pump.

Wear on the piston is a big cost to replace. 

It’s not bad replacing the packers but if they have been worn and left it could then have caused damage to piston

Maybe the Kremlin is the same?

Graco has a counter so tells you how many litres it has sprayed in its life time so you know how much life it has left in the piston pump before replacing.

Does the Kremlin have that?

Best thing is call Kremlin and ask them what parts wear out and how much do them parts cost if they need replacing.

Then you know if something does go you you haven’t lost out.

I did that with graco I gave them a call when I was looking.

 

[jmbfestool]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

I see didn’t know that. So they are a extra filter you can have in addition to your inline filter

So you can be super filtered  .

So you choose filters based on product.

I choose tips based on product and then select correct filter for the tip which is stated by manufacture that’s how I thought you had to do it.

Finer tip = finer filter

 

[jmbfestool]

Found on Kijiji a Kremlin 15C25 ( 15:1) pump with Xcite gun, couple of extra tips, pump fluid and some filters. The seller says it is 5 years old and has only sprayed water based clears through it. Looks fairly clean in the photos. What type of questions should I ask them and what test can I do if I were to move forwrd on this. His asking price is $2400.00 CAD and paid $5100 CAD 5 years ago.

Cheers,
JC

[member=24938]JCLP[/member]

Such a shame you can’t get Wagner.

Look at finish with the pump and gun

 

[jmbfestool]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

Yes I did say look at the gun and pump.

The pump still has a lot to do with finish.  Yes I agree the gun is the biggest factor,  the gun he’s using is the Wagner aircoat 4600 model bellow mine which is 4700.

A pump needs to be able to deliver fluid smoothly and at a good rate.

Like a double diaphragm pump should give smoother flow compared to a piston pump.

Also a pump which can deliver fluid at low to high pressure controllably and consistently.

Having a pump which can offer high pressure 250-320 bar is high and offers you flexibility to go airless or assisted but also pretty much spray any paint thickness with absolutely no Thinnin.

 

[JCLP]

I like it when I solve a problem. Was able to spray that extremely thick BM Regal Select with great success over the last 2 days. Those ugly photos that I posted are gone for ever. I'm back to business.
Now going to  try BM Advance again and another paint, the new SW Emerald urethane based paint. Both of these paints have been extremely difficult and have caused me many issues over the last year or so. BUt now I think I know why. Can't wait till the morning to get cracking. I would do it now, but already finished a bottle of wine and thinking of cracking a second. It will have to wait till morning.

So what did I do/find. Sorry, but as much as I would like to share what I discovered with everyone right now, I can't. I have been asked to keep it under wraps by one of my suppliers. Believe me when I say that I will share with you my findings in the next few days. Stay tuned.

Cheers,
JC

 

[JCLP]

I’d guess your paint was reacting with the primer or fillers you’ve been using. Either way it’ll be interesting to find out what the fix is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good morning,
No it wasn't the primers as I had used different types and ruled that out a long time ago. No fillers being used. The primer I do use is Duralaq Undercoater.

Cheers,
JC

 

[JCLP]

I changed the name of the thread to better reflect what I have been going through with these paints from BM.

JC

 

[bnaboatbuilder]

Looks great. So what did you do different this time?

This thread was moved to the Member Projects folder because I was not able to see it anyore in the Finishing & Painting folder.

Anyway. Well as many of you know, along with BM Advance I was also trying to spray BM Regal Select and this paint, which is really thick, has proven to be more of a challenge then Advance.

Well, by thinking outside the box and ignoring common HVLP turbine rules, I believe I have figured out how to spray BM Regal Select pearl Finish. I have tried 5 test panels and all of them look like the one in the photo. The pencil is there so the camera had something to focus on as the surface is too smooth. This is after 5 hours of drying.

Cheers,
JC

 

[JCLP]

Hi Alan and John,

Let me first start off by saying, holy crap what a journey this was. Five months, 9 gallons of paint, sleepless nights and a stressed out wife. All of this for a client that wants no VOC LEED certified paint and is extemely picky about colour.

As you know, I have tried switching paint manufactures and matching the BM Color 2111-50, Stone Harbor, but have had no success with the colour. So, I was stuck and determined to figure out how to spray this BM Regal Select Pearl sheen. This paint dries so quickly that even brushing and rolling is a challenge.
Now what did I do different? Lots of stuff.

1) Spray Booth - I re-designed my spray booth to incoporate an air chamber with variable speed fans and so I can control air flow much better. Also, added a half door on the booth so to be able to direct the flow of air.

2) Environment - I don't know where you are, but where I live, just north of Toronto, we are experiencing winter and the air is extremely dry and starved for humidity. They say the best conditions for paint to flow and dry properly is 70 degrees farenheit and 50% humidity. We have approx 25% humidity thus making the paint dry faster and not having a lot of time to level out. Even putting on 5-6 wet mils was not enough. So I needed to keep this is mind when planning my attack.

3) Turbine HVLP rules - "Thick paint, thin 10% water, 10% Floetrol, #4, #5, #6 needle, 4 stage or 5 stage turbine" was probably the most common recommendation(s) I received from multiple blogs, web site, emails, text and phone calls. Spraying is definitely an art and a science and once you figure out the science the art portion is different for each individual. Due to so many factors in spraying, what works for one person may not work for someone else. I tried every recommendation that I received and was not able to figure it out. So it was time to think outside the box.

4) Equipment - I have tried Airless with multiple FFLP tips and was never able to get a finish I liked. Now, it may be because the panels were lying flat and they were drying so quick that they didn't have time to level out. Sprayed a couple vertically and they looked good. So Airless was ruled out for this paint and spraying flat. I also, tried pressure pot with no success. So I ended up using my turbine HVLP system. I used, a Fuji Q5 with approx 50' hose. No whip hose as my second hose is extremely flexible and maintains a large internal diameter, unlike the Fuji whip hose which is smaller. The gun is a Fuji T75G with the PPS cup on it and the needle size I used was 0.8mm. Yes, the smallest needle Fuji makes. I have actually asked them to make me a 0.6mm needle for more testing.

4) The Paint - I will talk about BM Regal Select in this thread and Advance on another thread. Why this paint. As mentioned on previous threads, I have tried other manufactures and paints, Kem Aqua, PPG Breakthrough, Valspar 5102, SW Emerald Urethane paint and BM Advance. No one was able to match the colour perfectly. Everyone had a red hue to it, where the Regal Select has a green hue. The colour is Stone Harbor 2111-50, pearl sheen. The client was never happy with the colour matching and because this project requires brushing and rolling, it was crucial to use the same paint for everything. I talked to a Master Finisher that I met and he too would never spray a lacquer based paint on cabinet doors if it was to close to another type of paint of the same colour. They, the two type os paint, will yellow, if any, at a different rates. The client does know, and accepts, that the finish surface between the sprayed doors and brushed/rolled cabinets and trim will look different.
I have used this paint on earlier projects with great success, but BM has change the formulation about 15 times over the last 18 months which has resulted in difficulty when spraying.
Again, why am I using “wall paint” for cabinet doors? Well if you look at the TDS for this paint, it is recommended for walls, trim, doors and cabinets. When this paint dries, it is hard and takes abuse. If it can handle the abuse on doors, baseboards and trim, it will surely stand up to the non-abuse cabinets doors get. I have had no call backs from clients over the last couple of years.

Need to get a glass of wine. Back soon.

JC