Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?
- Thread starter sicd_steve
- Start date
Some history behind this....
Thomas Jefferson proposed adoption of a decimal measurement system to the US Congress in 1790, before the French adopted their Metric System. As ambassador to France he had many discussions with the French about the desirability of such a system. Jefferson was successful in getting the US to adopt a decimal currency, perhaps the first such in the world in 1784. Unfortunately Congress did not adopt his system of weights and measures. This would have been the time to do it as then the US had no real standards, just a lot of local customs.
Many historians believe that without the influence of Jefferson on France they would have not adopted a decimal system of measurement. The French didn't waste their opportunity - they started the conversion after the revolution. It's also interesting that some French experiments with decimalization failed - for example the French tried a 10 hour per day clock, with decimal divisions of the hours. You can even find some clocks with this decimal time system in museums. Ultimately the French efforts to impose the metric system were not at all smooth. Napoleon even put it in abeyance for a while.
At present, officially the US has adopted the metric system. It is a signatory to every one of the international metric system treaties and is one of the 17 original signatories to the Treaty of the Metre. However conversion while in progress is going to take a long, long time.
Some branches of the US Government have been using the metric system since the early 1800's, such as the US Coastal and Geodetic Survey.
The US switched to defining the units of inches, pounds and so forth in terms of the base metric units in 1893, the so-called Mendenhal order. This definition is really the end of the English system of units in the US, and establishes a new standard, some call the US traditional measures.
In 1964 the US National Bureau of Standards adopted the use of the Metric System for all of its work excluding a few rare cases where this would obviously be detrimental.
During the 1970's there was a significant effort to metricize the US top down. This failed miserably and is now used as a case study in marketing and management courses taught in the US on why such things are difficult to impossible.
What we have now is a system where both metric measures and traditional units are in commerce at the same time. There are no regulations that force either metric or US units, however government procurement is exerting some pressure, as is international trade.
Liter soda bottles are the standard in stores now. Many other food packages are metric sized. The trend there is probably the furthest along.
For woodworkers in the US it's unlikely they will see a 5cm x 10cm stick any time soon. It seems everywhere this type of commodity is one of the slowest to change to metric standards anywhere there is a metrification because buildings themselves have a very long life cycle.
For me anyway I have an interesting situation. My workshop has mostly tools with metric scales and dimensions, however my raw materials are pretty much have US traditional dimensions.
So anyway you can call on the US to adopt the metric system if you want. But realize in many ways it already has. What it hasn't done is impose metric measurements on articles of commerce by law. That was already tried once unsuccessfully. Even if it worked some things like lumber and sheet goods would probably not have changed in actual physical form at all because of the existing inventory of structures.
Thomas Jefferson proposed adoption of a decimal measurement system to the US Congress in 1790, before the French adopted their Metric System. As ambassador to France he had many discussions with the French about the desirability of such a system. Jefferson was successful in getting the US to adopt a decimal currency, perhaps the first such in the world in 1784. Unfortunately Congress did not adopt his system of weights and measures. This would have been the time to do it as then the US had no real standards, just a lot of local customs.
Many historians believe that without the influence of Jefferson on France they would have not adopted a decimal system of measurement. The French didn't waste their opportunity - they started the conversion after the revolution. It's also interesting that some French experiments with decimalization failed - for example the French tried a 10 hour per day clock, with decimal divisions of the hours. You can even find some clocks with this decimal time system in museums. Ultimately the French efforts to impose the metric system were not at all smooth. Napoleon even put it in abeyance for a while.
At present, officially the US has adopted the metric system. It is a signatory to every one of the international metric system treaties and is one of the 17 original signatories to the Treaty of the Metre. However conversion while in progress is going to take a long, long time.
Some branches of the US Government have been using the metric system since the early 1800's, such as the US Coastal and Geodetic Survey.
The US switched to defining the units of inches, pounds and so forth in terms of the base metric units in 1893, the so-called Mendenhal order. This definition is really the end of the English system of units in the US, and establishes a new standard, some call the US traditional measures.
In 1964 the US National Bureau of Standards adopted the use of the Metric System for all of its work excluding a few rare cases where this would obviously be detrimental.
During the 1970's there was a significant effort to metricize the US top down. This failed miserably and is now used as a case study in marketing and management courses taught in the US on why such things are difficult to impossible.
What we have now is a system where both metric measures and traditional units are in commerce at the same time. There are no regulations that force either metric or US units, however government procurement is exerting some pressure, as is international trade.
Liter soda bottles are the standard in stores now. Many other food packages are metric sized. The trend there is probably the furthest along.
For woodworkers in the US it's unlikely they will see a 5cm x 10cm stick any time soon. It seems everywhere this type of commodity is one of the slowest to change to metric standards anywhere there is a metrification because buildings themselves have a very long life cycle.
For me anyway I have an interesting situation. My workshop has mostly tools with metric scales and dimensions, however my raw materials are pretty much have US traditional dimensions.
So anyway you can call on the US to adopt the metric system if you want. But realize in many ways it already has. What it hasn't done is impose metric measurements on articles of commerce by law. That was already tried once unsuccessfully. Even if it worked some things like lumber and sheet goods would probably not have changed in actual physical form at all because of the existing inventory of structures.
rmwarren
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Kev said:
[member=13058]Kev[/member]
Same in the US, but it is worth it for an occasional treat. Best to share a bottle or several with buddies, preferably whilst the meat is smoking.
What boggles my mind is how you Aussies can grow the grapes, make the wine, buy the bottle & label, fill it, ship it to the US, sell it at wholesale and then the retailer can sell me a bottle of Oz wine for seven or eight bucks?!?!? International trade and finance are beyond me.
RMW
Stephen B
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[size=13pt]
Richard, please do not drink that factory wine!
Here is a list of regions that produce very good to excellent Australian wine (and in Metric bottles [big grin]).
http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/destinations/2013/07/10-of-australias-best-wine-regions
There are other Regions, but these are a good start. Also look for wines from grapes grown on the Bellarine Peninsula and around the LimeStoneCoast.
http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/discover/wineries/group,id,1173,1-1.aspx
http://limestonecoastwine.com.au/regional-info/regions/
[size=8pt]
[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member]. [member=13058]Kev[/member]
[size=12pt]Edit
And my favourite Australian wine, trouble is the price is now reaching Festool proportions -
http://sallyspaddock.com.au/product/sallys-paddock/
Richard, please do not drink that factory wine!
Here is a list of regions that produce very good to excellent Australian wine (and in Metric bottles [big grin]).
http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/travel/destinations/2013/07/10-of-australias-best-wine-regions
There are other Regions, but these are a good start. Also look for wines from grapes grown on the Bellarine Peninsula and around the LimeStoneCoast.
http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/discover/wineries/group,id,1173,1-1.aspx
http://limestonecoastwine.com.au/regional-info/regions/
[size=8pt]
[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member]. [member=13058]Kev[/member]
[size=12pt]Edit
And my favourite Australian wine, trouble is the price is now reaching Festool proportions -
http://sallyspaddock.com.au/product/sallys-paddock/
Cheese
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[member=13058]Kev[/member]
Treat yourself to a Chimay, delicious. I usually drink Chimay in the fall and winter months when I enjoy a heartier brew. Use the Chimay glass shown or some type of open goblet. Chimay advises that like a red wine, the beer needs to open up and the style of glass does affect the flavor.
From the Chimay website:
Chimay is an authentic Trappist beer. That means that it is brewed within the walls of a Trappist monastery under the control and responsibility of the community of monks, and whose revenue is devoted to social service.
The “Authentic Trappist Product" logo is granted by the International Trappist Association.
It guarantees the consumer the Trappist origin of the products according to well-established principles:
1. They are manufactured on-site or in close proximity to the monastery.
2. The monastic community is engaged in management and all aspects of the means necessary for their operation. This must clearly reflect both the unquestionably subordinate relationship with the beneficiary monastery and the relationship with the culture of the enterprise itself in the plan of monastic life.
3. The income provides for the major portion of the necessities of the community and for social services.
Treat yourself to a Chimay, delicious. I usually drink Chimay in the fall and winter months when I enjoy a heartier brew. Use the Chimay glass shown or some type of open goblet. Chimay advises that like a red wine, the beer needs to open up and the style of glass does affect the flavor.
From the Chimay website:
Chimay is an authentic Trappist beer. That means that it is brewed within the walls of a Trappist monastery under the control and responsibility of the community of monks, and whose revenue is devoted to social service.
The “Authentic Trappist Product" logo is granted by the International Trappist Association.
It guarantees the consumer the Trappist origin of the products according to well-established principles:
1. They are manufactured on-site or in close proximity to the monastery.
2. The monastic community is engaged in management and all aspects of the means necessary for their operation. This must clearly reflect both the unquestionably subordinate relationship with the beneficiary monastery and the relationship with the culture of the enterprise itself in the plan of monastic life.
3. The income provides for the major portion of the necessities of the community and for social services.
rmwarren
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Untidy Shop said:
[member=19746]Untidy Shop[/member] thanks for the recommendations, I'll add it to my list for the next trip to a decent wine store. On our little island we are a tad limited.
Gotta admit my taste in beer is (somewhat) more sophisticated than in wine. For Aussie vino we generally make our choice of the Yellow Tail based on label color, i.e. "Honey, do you want the purple or blue one today?".
Now for bourbon and cervasas, I am a touch more particular, and it never bothers me that one is 750 ML and the other 12 OZ...
RMW
Daver
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Kev said:
I do. I highly recommend it Kev.
RL said:
My brother turned me on to Chimay and the red is his favorite. I've tried the blue and white labels but find myself ordering Chimay Rouge like him.
Duvel is good stuff along with many other Belgian beers, hence my post. ;D
Richard/RMW said:
The US liquor industry converted to metric in the late seventies. At that time they went from some 11 sizes to about 5 (give or take) . The fifth (of a gallon) became 750ml. The quart became a liter, the pint became 500 ml, half pint became 250 ml, and half gallon became 1.75 liter.
Vijay
Slartibartfass
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6 pages already on this discussion....? Geez [scared]
Mr Heavy
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Alex said:
Umm.. you just corrected me to kind-of repeat what I was saying before you "corrected" me, minus any nuance.
I take it you don't read poetry? [wink]
Yes the imperial system is rather romantic, but to hate it for that's a bit "soul of a Dalek," dontya think?
It has its place, unless you're a totally left-brained pedant with no sense of humour and the hots for slide rules.
As I said in my previous post, as soon as you start doing "calculations" the metric system wins hands down.
The metric system is NOT an evolution of the imperial - it's a complete rethink. Some Imperial measurements aren't even internally consistent - try calculating fabric dimensions in bolts, for example. Some measurements are metric but not S.I., for example - centilitres in wine sales, cc in automotive displacement, cm in poisoning the minds of kids. Angstrom is not S.I. but nanometre is though they're both metric with one decimal point difference.
Much depends on what one's daily business is, of course. Your eponymous horsemonger would be at home with hands, furlongs and chains whereas a fisherman wouldn't - unless he was a gambling fisherman. A physicist working in foot-pounds might well be able to get his colleague on the moon, but with ten times as much calculating and the scope for errors that all the back and forth conversions encourage.
Other than that issue I don't think we disagree on the value of the metric system but I'd rather you'd actually read and understood my original post before choosing to correct my "understanding." The irony is amusing, however. [big grin]
Now, to avoid using either the metric or Imperial system, who's for making the official distance measurement of this forum the parsec? It might need a few extra decimal places...
SittingElf
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I'm tired of the Imperial vs Metric arguments.
I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits. It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]
Frank
P.S. 1 cubit = 45.72 cm
[popcorn] [popcorn]
I've decided to ignore those systems and start measuring in Cubits. It worked just fine for Noah building his ark, so it should be good for me too! [tongue] [big grin]
Frank
P.S. 1 cubit = 45.72 cm
[popcorn] [popcorn]
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