Kapex ( Greek for Spending my Childrens Inheritence)
- Thread starter Llap Goch
- Start date
The saw helpers are great. i have 3, 1- 88, 1-108and 1-55. My helper has the 88. I use the 108 the most. it is great for long mouldings. I like the 55 for tight areas, like my shop or for quick set up where i dont have a lot of trim to run.
Brice Burrell
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Rick Christopherson said:
Rick, good question. First, my insinuating that the extensions are a poor design is an unfair statement, being in the US, I have never even seen (in person)the Kapex. Second, by "Dewalt's", I'm guessing you mean the Sawhelper. Festool's extensions are not continuous tables like the Sawhelper, that's the big difference. On the Festool extensions having to move the adjustable workpiece supports for different length stock, slows work down. Another thing, I can't tell from the videos of the Kapex that I have seen, but it looks like the legs don't have a height adjustment for uneven ground. I think the real down side (and I hate to say this) is the cost, you need the MFT, crown moulding fences and the extensions, it adds up fast. The one good thing I will say, the design seems to be very compact/easy to transport. All this being said, I would really like to try it out, you never know, I could end up buying one someday. And please keep in mind everyone reading, this is the opinion of a guy that has never laid hands on a Kapex.
If time allows, I will do a short review of the Sawhelper Ultrafence in the general chat & random ideas area.
Sawhelper review
As I eagerly await the Kapex, I have been contemplating extension tables including: the Festool system, The Sawhelper, or something else. The Sawhelper definitely has the backing of real contractors in real world situations, and I like the continuous table design. According to their website, one of the nicest features about it is "The heart of the Ultrafence system. Patented coupler/bracket system self-aligns automatically upon set-up. A single hand screw secures each wing." Of course this requires tapping into your SCMS. 
Ah, but, looking at the Kapex, this isn't going to be as easy because, the Kapex has some unusual indents at the side to receive the "crown moulding stop". And the crown moulding stop self aligns to the Kapex with a single hand screw..kind of like the Sawhelper. Hmmmm. So I'm guessing that should one want the Kapex with a Sawhelper, that the saw helper might-could be mounted with (currently non existing) new brackets that fin right into the Kapex just like the crown moulding stop.
Just a thought.
Ah, but, looking at the Kapex, this isn't going to be as easy because, the Kapex has some unusual indents at the side to receive the "crown moulding stop". And the crown moulding stop self aligns to the Kapex with a single hand screw..kind of like the Sawhelper. Hmmmm. So I'm guessing that should one want the Kapex with a Sawhelper, that the saw helper might-could be mounted with (currently non existing) new brackets that fin right into the Kapex just like the crown moulding stop.
Just a thought.
I emailed Sawtooth Specialty Tools re prices and info on the Sawhelper and received a very prompt and charming reply from Preston Zwart. He kindly enclosed a price list which I have attached below and quoted about $400 for freight to the UK. That reflects the substantial construction and thus weight of the Sawhelper.
My main concern echoes that of fcraven in attaching the Sawhelper to the Kapex. I think I might take a rain check on this one, wait till Kapex arrives on your shores and offer a prize (a plug-it cord ?) to the first one who posts a successful way of joining the two.
I am not put off by the purchase price as it looks an excellent bit of kit but if I can't get it to accurately line up to the Kapex it will end up in the pending tray of things to bodge.
" From Llapopedia: Atlantic Ocean. A bit of water that seperates a Kapex from a Sawhelper."
My main concern echoes that of fcraven in attaching the Sawhelper to the Kapex. I think I might take a rain check on this one, wait till Kapex arrives on your shores and offer a prize (a plug-it cord ?) to the first one who posts a successful way of joining the two.
I am not put off by the purchase price as it looks an excellent bit of kit but if I can't get it to accurately line up to the Kapex it will end up in the pending tray of things to bodge.
" From Llapopedia: Atlantic Ocean. A bit of water that seperates a Kapex from a Sawhelper."
Brice Burrell
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Pat all is not lost, you can (or at least you used to be able to) buy just the couplers/brackets parts, you could order them and see if you can make them work on the Kapex and make your own extensions or buy the the rest of the set later. Or you can wait until next year when I get a Kapex, because I will figure out a way to attach the Sawhelper. Can you post some pictures of the side of the Kapex were the the extensions attach.
Fcraven, I don't think they will make a new bracket for one model saw. The old ownership (AD&E) was never very serious about selling these things, the new ownership hasn't made great progress either. I mean look at their website, no prices you can't order over the net, word of mouth advertising. Come on, they have the finest stand/extensions on the market, yet nobody knows about it.
Fcraven, I don't think they will make a new bracket for one model saw. The old ownership (AD&E) was never very serious about selling these things, the new ownership hasn't made great progress either. I mean look at their website, no prices you can't order over the net, word of mouth advertising. Come on, they have the finest stand/extensions on the market, yet nobody knows about it.
Brice
Photo 1 shows the side. The hexagonal bolt hole at the rear is for the bolt to secure the Kapex to the MFT and one of the other two holes (front and rear) houses the hexbolt of the rubber feet. I think that the Crown moulding fence slots onto the V on the saw table side and uses the spare bolt holes either side of the rubber feet holes. There is a knob on the underside of the Crown moulding which I suspect tightens the fence to the saw table. I do not know how the alu fence then attaches to the Crown moulding fence.
Photo 2 shows Simou examining the V on the right side but he too is baffled but is thinking along the same lines as me (ie, hasn't a scooby do).
Regarding the Sawhelper fence. He will not allow any drilling and tapping into the side of his Kapex and, as he is 110lbs of pure muscle, I have waved the Llap Goch Battle Flag (a white cross on a white background) and acquiesced in a gracious yet cowardly manner.
I have seen the Festool setup on a precisio saw table and it is very rigid and to Festools usual high standards but, as previously mentioned, it is not height adjustable and therefore would not be wholly suitable for site use.
Regards
Pat
Photo 1 shows the side. The hexagonal bolt hole at the rear is for the bolt to secure the Kapex to the MFT and one of the other two holes (front and rear) houses the hexbolt of the rubber feet. I think that the Crown moulding fence slots onto the V on the saw table side and uses the spare bolt holes either side of the rubber feet holes. There is a knob on the underside of the Crown moulding which I suspect tightens the fence to the saw table. I do not know how the alu fence then attaches to the Crown moulding fence.
Photo 2 shows Simou examining the V on the right side but he too is baffled but is thinking along the same lines as me (ie, hasn't a scooby do).
Regarding the Sawhelper fence. He will not allow any drilling and tapping into the side of his Kapex and, as he is 110lbs of pure muscle, I have waved the Llap Goch Battle Flag (a white cross on a white background) and acquiesced in a gracious yet cowardly manner.
I have seen the Festool setup on a precisio saw table and it is very rigid and to Festools usual high standards but, as previously mentioned, it is not height adjustable and therefore would not be wholly suitable for site use.
Regards
Pat
Brice Burrell
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Pat, if you can get Simou away from the saw long enough, here are some ideas to mount the Sawhelper. Option 1, drill holes,
Bolt a steel plate to the base of the Kapex.
Then dill hole in the plate to mount the sawhelper hardware.
Second option, no holes in the Kapex, bolt two plates together (one on the inside and one on the outside)to pinch the base of the Kapex.
Dill the outer plate and mount the hardware.
Bolt a steel plate to the base of the Kapex.
Then dill hole in the plate to mount the sawhelper hardware.
Second option, no holes in the Kapex, bolt two plates together (one on the inside and one on the outside)to pinch the base of the Kapex.
Dill the outer plate and mount the hardware.
Brice
My stagger is staggered by your ingenious method and thank you for taking the time and effort to come up with what looks like the solution!
But, and it is a big but, I am loath to drill into the base of what is a beautiful piece of casting and which could potentially cause problems should a warranty issue arise. Call me a big girls blouse if you will but there is a dull thud at the back of my mind caused by a big man dressed in black and green hitting me on the head with a Festool catalogue repeating the mantra,
" any unapproved mods to our products invalidate the warranty, any mods to......" On a $40 Jinglang SCMS no problemo but on $1600's of saw I take one pace backwards and gather the waggons.
I am happy to rewire plug-its etc as I can whip them out if needed to send the tool back but a base with a couple of holes filled with body filler just will not pass muster at Schloss Fsetool. ;D
As you rightly say the Kapex will hit your shores soonish so I will wait and see how you (and others I am sure) fit your Sawhelpers or other fences.
But I am very grateful (and a tad envious as I consider an HB pencil to be complicated machinery) for your superb graphics and henceforth will call you 3D Burrell!
Kind regards
Pat
My stagger is staggered by your ingenious method and thank you for taking the time and effort to come up with what looks like the solution!
But, and it is a big but, I am loath to drill into the base of what is a beautiful piece of casting and which could potentially cause problems should a warranty issue arise. Call me a big girls blouse if you will but there is a dull thud at the back of my mind caused by a big man dressed in black and green hitting me on the head with a Festool catalogue repeating the mantra,
" any unapproved mods to our products invalidate the warranty, any mods to......" On a $40 Jinglang SCMS no problemo but on $1600's of saw I take one pace backwards and gather the waggons.
I am happy to rewire plug-its etc as I can whip them out if needed to send the tool back but a base with a couple of holes filled with body filler just will not pass muster at Schloss Fsetool. ;D
As you rightly say the Kapex will hit your shores soonish so I will wait and see how you (and others I am sure) fit your Sawhelpers or other fences.
But I am very grateful (and a tad envious as I consider an HB pencil to be complicated machinery) for your superb graphics and henceforth will call you 3D Burrell!
Kind regards
Pat
Forrest Anderson
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Llap Goch said:
From my understanding of the photos and diagrams I have seen, assembly goes something like this...
The Kapex has two V grooves at either side of the table:
The Crown Moulding Stop assembly (AB-KS 120) fits into these grooves. This item is essentially a grey metal plate which widens the table (also called a Table Widener and Bracket Support Bench), plus a movable black fence which slides front to back in a T-slot. The black fence keeps the base of the moulding from slipping forward:
The Crown Moulding Stop assembly is described in the Kapex brochure as:
Crown Moulding Stop AB-KS 120. Fence for positioning crown mouldings at an angle, also used for securing the table extension KA-KS 120, 1 crown moulding stop with table widener. Order No 494369.
Once the black fence is located in the T-slot, crown moudling can be held in place with the assistance of the black screw clamp:
The Crown Moulding Stop assembly has a dual purpose however - it is also used to attach the Table Extension (KA-KS 120), which is described as follows:
Table extension KA-KS 120. For attaching workpieces and precision cutting to size, connected to the KS 120 via crown moulding stop 494369, can be used on the left or right, total length 1280 - 2070mm, cutting length 380 - 2300 mm, scope of delivery: stop flag KA-AR, fence, measurement scale, adjustable legs and workpiece support surface. Order No 494354
A photo showing the Table Extension attached to the Crown Moulding Stop assembly is shown below:
The end of the Table Extension sits on top of the Bracket Support Bench part of the Crown Moulding Stop assembly, but how are they secured together? Note the large black knob mounted at an angle under the Bracket Support Bench, and the smaller black rotary knob mounted on the top of the Table Extension, just above the T-slot of the Bracket Support Bench. The former attaches the Bracket Support Bench to the Kapex, whilst the latter secures the end of the tape measure you can faintly see running along the top of the Table Extension. Neither of them play any part in securing the Table Extension to the Bracket Support Bench.
Instead, the two are held together by a slot nut which slides into a groove on the bottom of the Table Extension extrusion, and is held in place by a rotary knob, which is tightened from below the Bracket Support Bench, and is invisible in the photos. The following diagram is taken from the instruction manual for the Table Extension (the slot nut is 4.5, and the rotary knob is 4.4):
As to attaching third-party table extensions, you may want to purchase the AB-KS 120 Crown Moulding Stop assembly from Festool, and drill into that instead. You could semi-permantently attach the third-party table extension to it by using bolts, and then fix the Crown Moulding Stop assembly (with its attached table extension) to the Kapex by using the approved large black knob. This would allow very quick attachment and detachment of the third-party fence, and would leave your Kapex totally unharmed, since you'd only be modifying the Bracket Support Bench part of the Crown Moulding Stop assembly. The latter costs 56.50 GBP from Miles Tool and Machinery Centre, and would not reduce the resale value of your Kapex.
This is probably a rather OTT answer to a simple question, but I wanted to explain it as clearly as I could.
Forrest
Brice
Had a quick look at your option 2 and placed a bar behind the side aperture of the saw base with one in front but I am not sure that it would be rigid enough. It will 'bite' into the paint/enamel finish of the saw again leading to possible claims of unauthorised tinkering.
I think that to provide a (necessary) level of rigidity you would have to drill into the sides (not an option for me during the warranty period) or come up with a lip to fit into the V. The crown moulding does use the V channel (its shown in the brochure...doh!). The base is cast from an alloy-type material (no idea what it is but it is light and webbed/honeycombed for structural rigidity) and I would worry about cracks or damage with little or no weight distribution. That, I think, is the reason Festool have gone for the V channel which spreads the load over the sawbase.
I will probably eat my words and go for the Festool option which does grieve me as it is so expensive or, in the melodious words of my CofS,
" whats wrong with that yellow thing you said would do everything (Triton Multistand), a tape measure, a pencil and a Mk1 eyeball? It would be nice to eat this month you raider of the household budget you."
Its a fair point. :'(
Forrest
Just seen your post. Many thanks that answers a lot of questions!
Had a quick look at your option 2 and placed a bar behind the side aperture of the saw base with one in front but I am not sure that it would be rigid enough. It will 'bite' into the paint/enamel finish of the saw again leading to possible claims of unauthorised tinkering.
I think that to provide a (necessary) level of rigidity you would have to drill into the sides (not an option for me during the warranty period) or come up with a lip to fit into the V. The crown moulding does use the V channel (its shown in the brochure...doh!). The base is cast from an alloy-type material (no idea what it is but it is light and webbed/honeycombed for structural rigidity) and I would worry about cracks or damage with little or no weight distribution. That, I think, is the reason Festool have gone for the V channel which spreads the load over the sawbase.
I will probably eat my words and go for the Festool option which does grieve me as it is so expensive or, in the melodious words of my CofS,
" whats wrong with that yellow thing you said would do everything (Triton Multistand), a tape measure, a pencil and a Mk1 eyeball? It would be nice to eat this month you raider of the household budget you."
Its a fair point. :'(
Forrest
Just seen your post. Many thanks that answers a lot of questions!
Brice Burrell
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Forrest, that was my first thought, but I don't really see a way to attach hardware to the Crown Moulding Stop assembly, not much flat surface. As always, great post, we in the States love seeing the info/pictures you have over there. Thanks for sharing.Forrest Anderson said:
Brice Burrell
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OK, Pat is out of the running to be the first to add a third-party fence, understandale, he has a 110 lbs. lad to answer to. But for all you other Kapex owners out there....I know you are lurking.
One more picture of the no holes idea, a bigger plate to rest on the MFT for more suport.
Last thing, the program used to make the 3D models is SketchUp. I think most of you guys already know about it, if not. Here is a link to download it FREE, Google ShetchUp. It is easy to use, give it a try.
One more picture of the no holes idea, a bigger plate to rest on the MFT for more suport.
My Makita is like that too, I've had no problems, however, breaking the alloy base would be bad.
Last thing, the program used to make the 3D models is SketchUp. I think most of you guys already know about it, if not. Here is a link to download it FREE, Google ShetchUp. It is easy to use, give it a try.
ririmarqueverte
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hi,
I must be dumb or slow ( or both :-\) but i still can't see how to attach the extensions to the Kapex. On Forrest's sketches it looks like the extensions of the basis could fit with a T nut ( if it wasn't for a question of height which can be easily fixed ). Like i said i have been using these extensions on the basis for a number of years and i have to say they are billiant: rigid, stiff and yet light. The tape measurer is great. Can someone tell me ( please ) they will fit onto the Kapex!
I must be dumb or slow ( or both :-\) but i still can't see how to attach the extensions to the Kapex. On Forrest's sketches it looks like the extensions of the basis could fit with a T nut ( if it wasn't for a question of height which can be easily fixed ). Like i said i have been using these extensions on the basis for a number of years and i have to say they are billiant: rigid, stiff and yet light. The tape measurer is great. Can someone tell me ( please
) they will fit onto the Kapex!Forrest Anderson
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ririmarqueverte said:
No problem. Let's attempt a cut-down explanation!
Basically, you have to buy a this bit (Crown Moulding Stop AB-KS 120)...
...which fits into this V-groove at the side of the Kapex...
You then take the Kapex Extension (Table extension KA-KS 120), and sit it on top of the Crown Moulding Stop which you've just added to the Kapex...
..and bolt the end of the extension (4.1 in the following diagram) onto the upper flat surface of the Crown Moulding Stop (4.3), with the T-nut (4.2), and tighten the thumbscrew below (4.4)...
(I've reversed the diagram in the hope of making it easier to relate to the photos).
On Forrest's sketches it looks like the extensions of the basis could fit with a T nut ( if it wasn't for a question of height which can be easily fixed ). Like i said i have been using these extensions on the basis for a number of years and i have to say they are billiant: rigid, stiff and yet light. The tape measurer is great. Can someone tell me ( please
The Kapex extension is called the KA-KS 120 and looks like this:
The Basis extension is called the Basis KA 100/200, and looks like this:
(Diagrams are taken from the relevant downloadable manuals at www.festool.co.uk)
The two look very similar, and if you look carefully at the cross-section of each rail, you'll see that they also look the same. I can't guarantee that Basis extension will fit the Kapex, but it would appear that the kits are pretty well interchangable. However you will need to buy the Kapex Crown Moulding Stop (see photo at the very top of this post), which is the "link" between the Kapex and the extension.
If you're still not following my explanation, let me know where things stop making sense, and I'll try again.
Forrest
ririmarqueverte
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Thanks a lot Forrest. It is all very clear now. I have to agree that the two extensions are indeed very similar and i can't see why they could not be interchanged ( apart from height ). Thank God there is thus some hope for me ;D!!! I'll take the matter up with my reseller ans i will keep you posted.
Thanks again for yr clarifying views,
riri
Thanks again for yr clarifying views,
riri
ririmarqueverte
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I have taken this matter up with Festool. At first their answer was no: it will not fit ( mainly because of the height i guess and probably because they would rather like to sell 2 extensions : ). Then seeing that i would not drop the matter that easily they are now inquiring...
Meanwhile, i have checked my Basis extensions and as far as i can see the inside stucture ( as Forrest was implying ) is the same. Therefore i can see no reason why the T nut will not fit into the groove. Problem: i have 2 extensions but no KAPEX to try...
riri
). Then seeing that i would not drop the matter that easily they are now inquiring...Meanwhile, i have checked my Basis extensions and as far as i can see the inside stucture ( as Forrest was implying ) is the same. Therefore i can see no reason why the T nut will not fit into the groove. Problem: i have 2 extensions but no KAPEX to try...
riri
Brice Burrell
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Riri, what is height of your extensions? Maybe Pat can measurer his Kapex and give you an idea if he thinks they will work.
What a multinational site this is!
A Belgian in Bruxelles with an extension problem, An Irishman in Wales with a Kapex owning Rotty and an American helping them to adapt a German tool. Excellent!
Brice
not sure whether this will help Riri but the Kapex table base is 11cm high measured from an MFT table. It is the same height as the Systainer 1.
On a different tack.
My middle son who is serving in Afghanistan sent me this story this afternoon. It tickled me and I thought I would share it as there must be other FOG'rs with loved ones serving overseas. It shows that our servicemen (and women) keep their sense of humour even when they are up to their necks in the brown and smelly! No offence intended to anyone and if you have heard it before then close your eyes as you read it
:
"A fleeing Taliban, desperate for water, was plodding through the
Afghan desert when he saw something far off in the distance.
Hoping to find water, he walked toward the object, only to find a
little old Jewish man at a small stand selling neckties.
The Taliban asked, "Do you have water?"
The Jewish man replied, "I have no water. Would you like to buy a tie? They are only $5."
"The Taliban shouted, "Idiot Jew! Israel should not exist! I do not need an overpriced tie. I need water! I should kill you, but I must find water first!"
"OK," said the old Jew, "it does not matter that you do not want to buy a tie and that you hate me. I will show you that I am bigger than that. If you continue over that hill to the east for about two miles, you will find a lovely restaurant. It has all the water you need. Shalom."
Muttering and cursing, the Taliban staggered away over the hill.
Several hours later he staggered back........
"Your brother won't let me in without a tie."
;D ;D
A Belgian in Bruxelles with an extension problem, An Irishman in Wales with a Kapex owning Rotty and an American helping them to adapt a German tool. Excellent!
Brice
not sure whether this will help Riri but the Kapex table base is 11cm high measured from an MFT table. It is the same height as the Systainer 1.
On a different tack.
My middle son who is serving in Afghanistan sent me this story this afternoon. It tickled me and I thought I would share it as there must be other FOG'rs with loved ones serving overseas. It shows that our servicemen (and women) keep their sense of humour even when they are up to their necks in the brown and smelly! No offence intended to anyone and if you have heard it before then close your eyes as you read it
:"A fleeing Taliban, desperate for water, was plodding through the
Afghan desert when he saw something far off in the distance.
Hoping to find water, he walked toward the object, only to find a
little old Jewish man at a small stand selling neckties.
The Taliban asked, "Do you have water?"
The Jewish man replied, "I have no water. Would you like to buy a tie? They are only $5."
"The Taliban shouted, "Idiot Jew! Israel should not exist! I do not need an overpriced tie. I need water! I should kill you, but I must find water first!"
"OK," said the old Jew, "it does not matter that you do not want to buy a tie and that you hate me. I will show you that I am bigger than that. If you continue over that hill to the east for about two miles, you will find a lovely restaurant. It has all the water you need. Shalom."
Muttering and cursing, the Taliban staggered away over the hill.
Several hours later he staggered back........
"Your brother won't let me in without a tie."
;D ;D
