Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?

[Michael Kellough]

My Kapex has gone down also.  After a few hours work yesterday, all seemed good.  [b]I was actually using it in the sun on a fairly humid day.  I loaded it up and went home[/b], confident I dodged a bullet.  This morning (about 75 f ) the saw is frozen, can't even move it.  Interesting, it seems just the opposite of what some of the other guys are experiencing.

For what's worth, Dan

Dan, it was hot and humid when you locked the miter table down for transport?

I wonder if paint on the bottom of the clamp tab is stuck to the miter scale?

I wonder if there IS any paint on the bottom of the clamp tab 

Do you see any movement of the spring plate when you move the locking level up and down?

 

[monte]

Matthew, I have a suggestion.  I have read every post since I started the parent thread about this problem (Played with the Kapex Today - thoughts/questions...)...  So, I am really curious as to just how many people have this issue...  Can you set up a pole so we can track how bad this really is?

If you want, you can start a new discussion with a poll, then I can combine the two discussions.  But I don't want to start the poll myself.  It's up to you.
Matthew

I feel Matthew is right in not starting a poll about this Kapex issue.

If there were 15 Kapex's not working or 150 not working, I'm sure Festool would still find a fix/redesign for it.

And running a poll would just add more anxiety to a thread already obviously stating the issues.

I'm sure Festool would want this to be behind them as quickly as possible.

Returns of such a high ticket item has to start adding up sooner than later.

Roger

 

[mantonuc]

My only reason for suggesting a poll was to try and see how pervasive this is...  Someone suggested this is only happening on a small number of saws...  But from this thread, it seems like it is more than just a small number...  I also thought it would be nice to know the number of people that are satisfied with its performance, not just those that were unsatisfied...  Finally, I thought it would be good to know how many people have tried the suggested fix and if it worked or not...

I read here that two people have tried the fix only to have the problem return...  As for myself, I did replace the Spring Plate yesterday evening and the saw's movement now swings "silky" smooth (it was still working great early this morning).  I have not had it in the sun yet, but should get that chance this weekend...  I just wanted to say that I have heard of this legendary  "customer service"  that Festool is known for but before this week, have never had the opportunity to experience it for myself...  I now see what it is all about.  Good luck trying to get anything even close to that level of service from the manufactures of most brands sold at the local Depot!  I can definitely see that Festool is taking this issue very seriously as I have been in contact with several of their tech's over the course of the last few days.  They appear to be very concerned with getting to the bottom of this issue and they assure me they will make this right.  I suspect we will hear something official soon as to what the issue is/was...

Matt

 

[danrush]

Michael,

I was just out in the shop looking and poking around the saw.  (keep in mind I'm a pretty good carpenter, not so good at mechanics!!!)  

Yes, It was still hot and humid when I packed up last night.  Absolutely no problems.  I see no paint on the parts that seem to be grinding.  The (I think) spring plate (#115 in manual) is heavily grooved at the point where it guides against the indent plate. (#118).

Again, I see no paint or paint scrapings, I think this must be something more.  

Dan

 

[danrush]

My dealer, Berland's House of Tools,( Yea gotta plug 'em)  just called to have me come in and exchange the saw.  So if there is anything else I can look at to help, mail fast.  Sorry, not set up for pics.

Have to love the service from Festool and their dealers!

Dan

 

[fpsnyder]

Add me to the list of Kapex owner's experiencing this problem. I've only had mine a week and it was fine up until this morning. It has been hot an humid here (low 90's) this week for what it's worth. I just called Festool and they're sending me out a new plate. Let's hope this is the fix for this problem.

 

[hamsey]

When I contacted my dealer about the problem, he knew about the problem. Said he had 3 to 4 saws that went bad. That is when Jogn at Festool contacted me. Tried to use the saw last night and almost tipped the table over getting it from45? to 0? had to use that much force. I do know that when aluminum burrs together it  is very difficult to separate it. I will not be using the saw over the weekend and will wait for the fix (hopefully) Monday.

Norm

 

[fpsnyder]

Trying my hand at figuring out this problem...

When releasing the tension by raising the handle up, I found that if I raise the lever up all the way, it appears to over ride the indent and the plate bites the miter gauge causing it to scrape and seize. If I back it off (downwards just a bit) so that the roller mates with the indent, the plate releases and I can move the gauge again. Can anyone else with this problem try this? It helps if you get down below the saw so you can see when the roller is properly nested in its indent.

The handle and roller arm appears to be made of plastic (Nylatron?). Is it possible that the Nylatron is flexing and not maintaining the tension necessary to keep the plate from biting when it shouldn't? Could the warmth and humidity be causing the Nylatron to react this way?

 

[danrush]

Frank,

I just replicated your experiment and came to the same result as you.  Don't know the cause and effect, but it may help when in the field and need just a couple of cuts to go home.

To all, not sure I buy into the heat/humidity thing.  We've had guys in the sun, in basements, and in between.  Sounds almost like a too - tight tolerance compounded by wear.  Just a thought.

Dan

 

[Michael Kellough]

Michael,

I was just out in the shop looking and poking around the saw.  (keep in mind I'm a pretty good carpenter, not so good at mechanics!!!)  

Yes, It was still hot and humid when I packed up last night.  Absolutely no problems.  I see no paint on the parts that seem to be grinding.  The (I think) spring plate (#115 in manual) is heavily grooved at the point where it guides against the indent plate. (#118).

Again, I see no paint or paint scrapings, I think this must be something more.  

Dan

Dan, if your spring plate is scored you at least need to replace it.

The spring plate is the black piston rod shaped piece of (carbon spring?) steel that pushes up against the bottom of the miter scale thereby clamping the miter scale to the clamp tab above the miter scale. When you pull the lock lever up to unlock the miter table it pushes the end of the spring plate down. It should be harder than the stainless steel miter scale so it shouldn't be scratched methinks. More likely the miter scale is scratched.

 

[fpsnyder]

Thanks for trying, Dan. I think that is the problem. Either the indents on the plate need to be spaced properly so that when the lever is raised up all the way, the roller is properly nested to release the tension. OR...a simple stop addition inside the housing the keep the lever from being raised beyond the indent might work too. I'm guessing that the new plates have the indent in the proper location.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Trying my hand at figuring out this problem...

When releasing the tension by raising the handle up, I found that if I raise the lever up all the way, it appears to over ride the indent and the plate bites the miter gauge causing it to scrape and seize. If I back it off (downwards just a bit) so that the roller mates with the indent, the plate releases and I can move the gauge again. Can anyone else with this problem try this? It helps if you get down below the saw so you can see when the roller is properly nested in its indent.

The handle and roller arm appears to be made of plastic (Nylatron?). Is it possible that the Nylatron is flexing and not maintaining the tension necessary to keep the plate from biting when it shouldn't? Could the warmth and humidity be causing the Nylatron to react this way?

Frank this description confuses me and I wonder if my description in my previous post is wrong?
It may well be since I've been relying on photos and the parts diagram.

It seems like if the roller comes out of the detent in the spring plate that the plate will be pushed even farther from the miter scale. What do I have wrong?

One thing I'm defiantly unclear on is, what engages the detents in the miter scale?
Is that the thing that is scraping when the lever is lifted too high?

 

[rnt80]

Trying my hand at figuring out this problem...

When releasing the tension by raising the handle up, I found that if I raise the lever up all the way, it appears to over ride the indent and the plate bites the miter gauge causing it to scrape and seize. If I back it off (downwards just a bit) so that the roller mates with the indent, the plate releases and I can move the gauge again. Can anyone else with this problem try this? It helps if you get down below the saw so you can see when the roller is properly nested in its indent.

The handle and roller arm appears to be made of plastic (Nylatron?). Is it possible that the Nylatron is flexing and not maintaining the tension necessary to keep the plate from biting when it shouldn't? Could the warmth and humidity be causing the Nylatron to react this way?

Frank this description confuses me and I wonder if my description in my previous post is wrong?
It may well be since I've been relying on photos and the parts diagram.

It seems like if the roller comes out of the detent in the spring plate that the plate will be pushed even farther from the miter scale. What do I have wrong?

One thing I'm defiantly unclear on is, what engages the detents in the miter scale?
Is that the thing that is scraping when the lever is lifted too high?

On mine it is.  Read my last post.

 

[rnt80]

Never mind I don't know where my last post is!!  The little tab that engages the miter detents is what is scraping on my saw.  I can see it when I observe the swinging motion from underneath the saw and there is evidence of it on the inside of the gauge.  It has caused some visible scoring and when I ran my finger over the gauge there was quite of bit of loose material/burrs that came off.  BTW I replaced my spring plate yesterday.  While it rides smoother the scraping is obviously still there.

 

[danrush]

Well, I just removed the spring clamp (#470665, in case my terminology is wrong) and flipped it over and reattached it upside down.  The saw works well with the detents, but will not lock between them.  I wonder if the plate could be bent VERY slightly to clear the indent plate?

Not a long term fix, but may help those stuck in the field.

FYI, Dan

 

[fpsnyder]

RNT80 - I was referring to the black spring plate on the underside which bites the bottom of the miter scale, not the spring tab for the scale indents. Try backing off your lever (push down about 1/8" from all the way up) then try swinging the saw around to see if this helps. I think the lever travels upwards too much.

Michael - I would also assume that if the roller traveled beyond the indent (towards you) that it would push the plate farther away from the scale surface. However, that does not appear to be the case here. It could have something to do with the plastic being used as a lever and flexing under warmer conditions?

On closer inspection, it appears the the plastic lever uses the underside of the housing as a fulcrum point. The underside of the housing is a large radius surface, which means that the fulcrum point would change during the movement of the lever, which would explain why the spring plate could spring back as the lever loses its mechanical advantage over the tension of the plate as the fulcrum moves farther away (as the lever moves farther upwards). And perhaps the plastic lever doesn't have the rigidity to resist the tension of the steel plate?

Dan - I wouldn't flip the spring plate over. You need the indents in the spring plate to lock it.

Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night  ;D

 

[rnt80]

I see what you're saying Frank.  I still get the scraping from that tab that engages the detentes.

 

[fpsnyder]

RNT80 - The tab the locks into the SCALE indents will still drag along the top of the scale. The problem is with the bottom plate (black steel).

 

[rnt80]

Is it supposed to drag so much that it scores the plate?  That doesn't seem right.  I"ve replaced the black plate on mine already and while it swings more freely there is still scraping.

 

[Michael Kellough]

If you lift the black tab just in front of the lock lever does that lift the "detent tooth" off of the miter scale?