Keeping Festool Prices Stable

[Forrest Anderson]

on a more serious note

thats why i like the idea of tool points better

the offers the uk offer are time limited and require very large purchaces, often of tools i already have

I'd certainly be very partial to a ToolPoints or similar reward system.

Forrest

 

[plywood]

For those who buy Festool as an investment, would you ask Festool to raise all their prices even higher to make your tools that much more valuable?  If they doubled the prices of their tools would you be even more productive?  The quality of their tools is what allows us to be productive, not the initial price tag.  I can't imagine ever selling tools I use so I really don't care what the secondary market would bring.  If prices were lower and the quality was the same I could afford more tools which could help me be even more productive.  I love Festool quality but even accessories are very pricey.  The purchase price is more than the tool it usually also includes several accessories to get the most out of the tool you just purchased.  I would love to see stores be able to compete for business and keep prices lower.

 

[Peterm]

Yup, another vote for the 'loyalty points' system here too, provided you could redeem the points on something useful rather than pointless accessories like jackets, bodywarmers or discounted radio-controlled toys - and yes, judging by the number of fleeces, bodywarmers etc... that are turning up on eBay they are pointless...

Must say, this thread has almost made me weep with the prices that some folks have posted - I'd cheerfully kill my grandmother (yes, and eat the body...) to get a C12 for $350 - they're ~ ?385 in the UK (roughly $765 at current exchange rates) or a Domino for $750 (I paid over ?500 for mine) :'(

So yes, Festool points, please. Please?

Pete.

 

[dirtydeeds]

the rate at which the option "tool points" is growing

it looks like it is something that particularly the uk and usa suppliers of festool should look at

its such a pity that the uk suppliers/importers of festool dont give a monkeys..... about this site

my own experience is that the us suppliers are FAR MORE INTERESTED in uk supply than festool uk

festool uk dont give a damm

i wish this wasnt the case........... but it is

i hope that one day christian o's comments will influence the uk importers

at this moment in time......... however...........................................

 

[dirtydeeds]

i also hope............................... one day

not to be a lone voice in the uk

and HOPE one day the uk importer will............... 1, recognise the problem  2.........do something about it

festool gear is good................... but the uk festool importer doesnt help the growth of his uk business

bad service doesnt help

im SURE he has STATISTICS that                  proove beyond doubt (to his mind) (that he is correct)

dont believe it

festool penetation into the "trade market" of the uk isnt good, there is a lot of resistance

 

[nickao]

For those who buy Festool as an investment, would you ask Festool to raise all their prices even higher to make your tools that much more valuable?  If they doubled the prices of their tools would you be even more productive?  The quality of their tools is what allows us to be productive, not the initial price tag.  I can't imagine ever selling tools I use so I really don't care what the secondary market would bring.  If prices were lower and the quality was the same I could afford more tools which could help me be even more productive.  I love Festool quality but even accessories are very pricey.  The purchase price is more than the tool it usually also includes several accessories to get the most out of the tool you just purchased.  I would love to see stores be able to compete for business and keep prices lower.

Well the thread is named keeping prices stable, so I do not think any one meant or implied that the prices should be raised. Read the threads carefully. I think I glean the idea, especially the professionals, do not want the tools prices reduced to a point where any old homeowner can get their hands on tools that can actually create competition for them ie., by helping someone with no talent get the work done as well as the existing professionals.

No one has come right out and said it, per is the  closest to being totally honest - high prices- "it keeps the riff-raff out". Who is the riff raff ? People who may not be able to pay for the tools initially, but maybe if they can get their hands on them may give other businesses a run for their money? I also agree that guys doing this for a living buying low quality tools and then going out of business, certainly should stop going to the bar and spend that money on tools. That would have been the INVESTMENT I think we are all talking about.

Per I am not coming down on you, but honestly isn't this what everyone here is really talking about - keeping the riff raff out.

My business DIRECTLY competes with guys that buy shop bots or lasers and under cut me by double or triple! They are button punching, no talent companies, that rely on quantity not quality. If my items are ever sold at a big box store for pennies on the dollar, I would not be happy.  I already see that on eBay. Anyone can sit there and punch a button and let the laser or CNC do  the work. And the lower prices are making this all possible.

I have resisted buying these machines even though they are well within my grasp now, because I enjoy making what I make and have found a niche of clients that appreciate hand made pieces. Also, I have yet to see a CNC or laser made piece that exudes the same feeling as someone making it by hand. By hand to include small power tools, but not laser or CNC.  Don't get me wrong lasers and CNC have their place. But that is another thread topic itself.

I am throwing this out their for discussion, not that I agree or disagree with you Per.  I am just playing Devil's advocate here. So please don't take this the wrong way, I love reading your posts.

Because I agree with this post my answer being NO - "would you ask Festool to raise all their prices even higher to make your tools that much more valuable?  If they doubled the prices of their tools would you be even more productive"

And since I do not think investment in the terms of this discussion means buy and then sell for a direct monetary profit:

What is the "real" reason we want the Festools to stay expensive in other words "Keep Festool Prices stable" as the threads topic indicates.

What are your reasons, really?

1) To be in an exclusive club
2) To keep out the riff raff
3) To stimulate competition
4) To stifle the competition
5) To make sure we pay a fair price not worrying about the next guy paying less
6) To make it fair for everyone
7) To give people with more initial outlay an advantage

Anymore ideas please add them.

Just food for thought.

Nickao

ADD* It sure seems  most people NOT in the USA would sure like to see a price drop and NOT keep the the prices stable, at least not stable at the current prices abroad.

 

[dirtydeeds]

lets back this "claim" of mine regarding poor uk festool service. with some real information

i took an rts400 sander into the dealer for a "possible warranty" claim

festool uk claim a 48 hour turn around.    over 2 weeks later no sign of the sander, nearly a month was the final result

yes there were cock ups by both the dealer and festool uk (please 'scuse my BASIC language but its true)

yes............................... you could say 6 of one and half a dozen of the other

BUT.............................. nearly one month for a 48 hour turn around

.................... it doesnt send a good message

worse than that

i FULLY believe the integrety of the guys at the dealership AND festool uk, i know them

even worse. this transaction can be traced.................................. by both dealer and supplier

................ i am i in a bind

 

[dirtydeeds]

ever thought you might have said enough to hang yourself

i do  :'(

 

[dirtydeeds]

do i like being between two sets of people i trust

not at all

 

[nickao]

lets back this "claim" of mine regarding poor uk festool service. with some real information

i took an rts400 sander into the dealer for a "possible warranty" claim

festool uk claim a 48 hour turn around.    over 2 weeks later no sign of the sander, nearly a month was the final result

yes there were cock ups by both the dealer and festool uk (please 'scuse my BASIC language but its true)

yes............................... you could say 6 of one and half a dozen of the other

BUT.............................. nearly one month for a 48 hour turn around

.................... it doesnt send a good message

worse than that

i FULLY believe the integrety of the guys at the dealership AND festool uk, i know them

even worse. this transaction can be traced.................................. by both dealer and supplier

................ i am i in a bind

WOW that is bad service for sure. I can say that using Timmy C at Festooljunkie has been a pleasure. He is on my concerns the same day usually within hours. I am sorry the service is so bad their in the UK. It doesn't make sense at all.

Nickao

 

[Woodenfish]

If Festool prices were lowered to make them affordable,

then how could we spend money we don't have

on tools we don't need

to impress people we don't know?

 

[nickao]

You crack me up woodenfish! Funny, but probably true!

 

[Peterm]

festool penetation into the "trade market" of the uk isnt good, there is a lot of resistance

And a fair bit of competition, too. A lot of UK tradesmen (you and I are on some of the same forums this side of the pond D/Deeds) really don't see the benefit of Festool, given the price we have to pay for the tools. For some of them, the 'less tangible' benefits (the system, the dust extraction, ease of use, systainers) are irrelevant to them; if they don't see the benefits, why should they pay double (or more) the price?

I live and work in London; it's quite a large city (that's irony, folks...) but the number of Festool dealers is tiny. There's one that's relatively local to me, but the range it stocks is, frankly, pathetic. They have one each of the most common items - saw, sander, router, planer etc..) but no Deltex, no Rotex, no LS130, no MFT - and no idea (they say) that there's and MF3 in the pipeline...

This is a busy little toolshop that sells Festool against all the usual suspects - DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, Panasonic, Hilti - and Festool is almost always the most expensive. But you can't buy one, unless you're prepared to take something off display; they'll order you one ('usually a few days, perhaps a week...') and they think that's an acceptable level of service. If I wanted one in a few days, I can buy from dealers on eBay - heck, if I wanted one tomorrow, I can buy from dealers on eBay - but I'd rather have the service from a local dealer  and that simply isn't available. And I'm a Festool convert - I 'get' it! For folks who are on the fence (or on the other side of the fence) this is a hard sell - and Festool UK don't seem to give a damn.

It's almost enough to wonder whether Festool GMBH would actually prefer to sell heavily discounted tools to doctor and dentist 'hobbyists' in the US than working professionals elsewhere; Nike's claim that they are a sports shoe company first, and a fashion brand second, sounds awfully familiar - and hollow. And please, I mean no offense- I'm on the outside of a bottle of Merlot, and it really, really makes my teeth hurt to see you guys in the US bitchin' about the 'high' pirces of Festool

And for the record, I don't buy anything to impress people; I buy it to get things done, on time and within budget.

Still, I'd love to see Festool prices stable - as long as they were US prices 

Cheers, Pete.

 

[dirtydeeds]

irony peterm....................

i dont even know you

;D

 

[dirtydeeds]

ps

good to see you  8)

 

[Per Swenson]

Let me put it in a better light Nickao.

Customer gets carpet installed.

Every door in the house needs to be trimmed.

Around here carpet installers do not cut doors

or they charge 75 dollars a pop.

Then butcher it with a oldham blade on a abused circular saw,

with a scratched plate.

There isn't in my neck of the woods a "Handyman"

or carpet installer that is aware of the Festool 55 or

would lay out that kind of money.  When if they were smart they should.

This state of affairs suits me fine.

1 hours worth of work= 1 days pay

And the customer gets a amazing job with no dust?

Forget the days pay, Just who do you think they are going to call in the future?

Per

 

[dirtydeeds]

the absouute weiedest thing between the english market and the euopean market is NOTHING whatsoever

the only PHSICAL defference is the actual plug format, rember the voltage is EAXACTLY the same and the cycles PER SECOND are exactlty the same

AND

the a "plug it" system  means its "rearly rearly realy cheap"

now tell me im biased against uk prices, the price difference is a plug......................... nothing more

AND

for the EXACTLY same price in the uk we can have the us voltage of 110, used on civil enginerig sites

now(with the same voltage as the usa)  tell me why UK prices are far in excess of those paid by americans

 

[dirtydeeds]

im not bitter as such between uk and us prices

im just trying to explain that the difference in cost AND LEVEL OF SERVICE is nearly 4 times what you would pay in the us

a book suggested regarding drywall costs 17 dollars in the usa, the change that to 17 quid (quid to dollar conversion) this is standard this side of the atlantic

NOW because its 17 dollars this side of the atlantic it costs 17 quid

now..........................  guess what, the convertion rate is 17 quid x 2 (for dollars)

SO................................. now costs 34 dollars us (in england)

SO

now 34 costs = 68 dollars (us)

 

[nickao]

Let me put it in a better light Nickao.

Customer gets carpet installed.

Every door in the house needs to be trimmed.

Around here carpet installers do not cut doors

or they charge 75 dollars a pop.

Then butcher it with a oldham blade on a abused circular saw,

with a scratched plate.

There isn't in my neck of the woods a "Handyman"

or carpet installer that is aware of the Festool 55 or

would lay out that kind of money.  When if they were smart they should.

This state of affairs suits me fine.

1 hours worth of work= 1 days pay

And the customer gets a amazing job with no dust?

Forget the days pay, Just who do you think they are going to call in the future?

Per

Well the smart clients will pay more, but the cheap clients will pay the least amount, then bitch when the job sucks.

So I get it.

75.00 a door is great , if I am doing 100 doors, I used to charge a minimum 8 hours not matter what the job. And time and time again homeowners balked. That's why I starting dealing in the client that would only pay for the best, driving 90 minutes to Chicago Lake Front was the only way. Tons of guys here  charging ten dollars an hour as a handy man. Then I would get a call to fix it. I would not even go to look at the job. I literally would bid a deck at 25,000.00 and guys would come in saying 8,000.00! Time and time again those clients would call saying they should have gone with me. It did not pass inspection, the ledger fell off the house, they could not sell the house because no permit was taken out, etc. They got what they deserved.

Okay I re read your post very carefully, here is an excerpt-

"There isn't in my neck of the woods a "Handyman"

or carpet installer that is aware of the Festool 55 or

would lay out that kind of money.  When if they were smart they should.

This state of affairs suits me fine."

So in other words you want the prices kept high to keep the competition , the ones to dumb to realize the benefits or to cheap to pay for the Festools, out of the loop making it better for you.

And I am all for that because I make money at this. But maybe the full hobby guys will not agree.

I think if you lived around here you could make a lot of money with me working on the gold coast in down town Chicago(if I still did that work), it is that type of thinking that will work to make you a lot of money there. The people want it clean, done right the first time and will pay any price to get it.

Nickao

 

[Per Swenson]

"So in other words you want the prices kept high to keep the competition , the ones to dumb to realize the benefits or to cheap to pay for the Festools, out of the loop making it better for you."

No other words. Those work.

Per