Let's talk about the ultimate divas of drilling: dust extraction drill bits.

[six-point socket II]

Today I want to share a bit of my experience with dust extraction drill bits. Not that I really have the time at the moment, but I called it a day early today, after learning that I will get a delivery of building materials tomorrow, which gives me some spare time for a tool related post.

So I love dust extraction drill bits ever since I first learned about them - over time however I also learned that these can be real divas/ high maintenance and somewhat picky - especially the small(er) diameter drill bits.

My "go to" dust extraction drill bit has been the Heller Duster Expert, the SDS-plus type is available from 6mm diameter & upwards.

It has a carbide head with two edges, the 6mm variant has one extraction hole on the face of the head (larger diameters have two extraction holes on the face of the head) and it's for dry concrete without rebar. For these drill bits to work well and also not overheat it is incredibly important that the dust extraction holes and channels are not obstructed. When that happens you will hear a change of noise and hear & feel how the drill bit is not running freely anymore. At that point a full stop is necessary immediately or you destroy the drill bit and "the needle becomes your friend". You need to unblock the hole(s) on the face of your drill bit. Be aware and highly cautious that the drill bit will be extremely hot, hotter than any regular SDS-plus drill bit.

I've had to clear the hole(s) regularly but actually never had a blocked channel.

If you drill a hole without the dust extractor running, the drill bit is more or less ruined immediately it can't cope with the extreme heat.

If you hit rebar with the 2 edge variants two things can happen:

1) if you have a direct/ true hit it will not go through/ you will notice and have the chance to stop.
2) if you have just a partial hit it's very likely the carbide head will (partly) shear off the body of the drill bit the second it tilts/twists. (Especially if the drill bit has already seen quite a bit of use.)

So here is a great example of a well used dust extraction drill bit, Heller Duster Expert 6mm - shortly before its lifetime had expired.

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And expired.

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So besides the hole-clearing, what do I mean by high-maintenance and these drill bits being picky. You can extend the lifetime of these drill bits by using a rotary hammer that is capable of running at reduced hammer blow/ impact energy. There aren't many these days that can do it, and you're in no way obligated to do this, the manual clearly lists max. allowed blow/impact energy for the different diameter drill bits and thats fully within the range of typical 2kg class rotary hammers speaking especially of the 6/8mm diameter drill bits - from 10mm upwards it's even less of an issue.

Since I needed a replacement for the 6mm drill bit, and I knew Milwaukee (Germany) had released their "Dust-Lok" (TM) dust extraction drill bit set going even smaller, now down to a 5mm dust extraction drill bit - I was intrigued and wanted to know more.

Milwaukee Dust-Lok on the German Milwaukee Tools website:https://de.milwaukeetool.eu/de-de/sds-plus-dust-lok-absaugbohrer-4-schneiden-variosystem/?variant=-1

I was able to find out that this system is manufactured in Germany by DreBo - a well known and reputable manufacturer of drill bits.

DreBo website:https://www.drebo.de/en/

Sure enough the set also became available through one of my suppliers (Würth) and I bought it - along with a Heller Duster Expert 6mm dust extraction drill bit replacement labeled from the same supplier. (In case you don't know, certified SDS-plus drill bits come with a "PGM" code that identifies the manufacturer, so it's fairly easy to identify said manufacturers, as long as you have the list to de-code. PGM stands for Prüfgemeinschaft Mauerbohrer e.V. (PGM Masonry Drill Bit Certification Board) they even have their own site where they elaborate on said "secrecy".https://pgm.eu/kennzeichnung-von-pgm-bohrern

But obviously that doesn't really fly in todays day and age, here's the most comprehensive list that I know of to decode:
https://www.werkzeug-news.de/threads/liste-der-pgm-nummer-kennzeichung-gesucht.40967/

So why is the DreBo interchangeable dust extraction drill bit set so interesting?

1) dust extraction holes are placed on the sides of the carbide head, inside open, easy to clean, channels. This means you are not actively hammering the dust into the holes as you do on extraction drill bits that have the hole(s) on the face of of the head. This is highly likely what allows them to go actually down to the 5mm diameter drill bit.

2) the drill bits are much easier to change, because you don't have to pull them from the sealed rubber housing/ dust extractor connector. They have their own, locking, interface to change between sizes. Note that it is possible to run the other dust extraction drill bits as a "set" with a single connector as well, but as stated, changing between sizes is not as easy/ effortless as with the new DreBo set.

3) they have a carbide head with 4 edges. Cope with hitting rebar much better and are not as easily sheared off.

To me that easily justifies the upgrade, especially if you used any dust extraction drill bit once, especially during overhead work, you never look back.

4) replacing worn/ broken sizes is cheaper & faster.

So let's take a look.

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10mm Duster Expert (two holes on the face of the head), 6mm DreBo (two holes inside channels on the side of the head), 6mm Duster Expert (one hole on the face the head) and the expired 6mm Duster Expert.

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10mm Duster Expert, 6mm DreBo, 12mm DreBo - for clear visualizing of the channels and holes.

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DreBo interface/ interchangeability.

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DreBo set closeup.

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My current view on these is that the holes inside channels on the side of the head is a true milestone for small diameter dust extraction drill bits, makes life so much easier. I would have understand if people were put off by the "high maintenance"/ diva'esque behavior of small dust extraction drill bits with holes on the face, as it is a true time killer.

Otherwise, same rules apply: dry concrete only - and while they can cope with rebar much better, I wouldn't recommend them to be used to drill through rebar.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[grobkuschelig]

Hi Oliver,

Thank you for the highly informative post! Extremely appreciated!

I did not know about the new type, and have so far not had a need for the old, but I always enjoy these insights and your personal experience.

Uli

 

[mcfal12]

I second [member=63474]grobkuschelig[/member] comments. Great post!!

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Yes - great post Oliver. I can’t add anything - but I just wanted to induce a jealous rage by letting you know that my third set of sacrificial boards this year are much more impressive than yours. And they’re double-sided.

[big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Best wishes from a surprisingly sunny England.

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[six-point socket II]

[not worthy] [thumbs up] [not worthy] [thumbs up]

I bet you could either sell them in a high-end bespoke popup-store as vintage workbench tops, or to some youtuber who needs some additional decorations for "credibility" reasons. lol.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[not worthy] [thumbs up] [not worthy] [thumbs up]

I bet you could either sell them in a high-end bespoke popup-store as vintage workbench tops, or to some youtuber who needs some additional decorations for "credibility" reasons. lol.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Kind regards,
Oliver

Ha...that's a good one.

The drills though, that's really cool. I didn't even know such a thing existed? I don't do much concrete drilling though, even then it's usually something small like 1/4" Tapcons or 3/8" RedHeads (wedge anchors) neither of which goes very deep.

 

[peacefulandpatriotically]

Thanks very much Oliver for this post, I did not know much about this type of tool.

 

[six-point socket II]

Let's add a chapter here to talk about why "more power", in this instance more precisely "more speed" is not always helpful - especially not with small diameter drilling in (reinforced) concrete - no matter if its a SDS-plus dust extraction drill bit or regular SDS-plus drill bit.

Again, a little free time on my hands - so here's my take:

The average rotary hammer spins with round about 900 rpm +-. Some a little faster, some a little slower. But the 900 rpm is a good baseline. Has been for years.

The issue with that is, when the rotary hammer is not used as such, but as a regular drill, 900 rpm is pretty slow for many use cases . It can be small diamond drill bits, diamond core cutters/hole saws, carbide hole saws, (...) - so over time users asked the manufacturers for "more power", or precisely for more speed on the 2kg class rotary hammers - which are a "bread and butter" tool for almost any tradespeople and homeowners.

An interesting fact by the way, speaking of masonry/concrete core cutters/hole saws, while most of these 2kg class rotary hammers have a max. diameter recommendation of 68mm for those use cases, that is actually and specifically not for hammer drilling. It's for drilling (rotational) only - and thats where, depending on size, more speed makes sense. But then again, there are drills available on the market specifically designed for these use cases.

So some manufacturers started "upgrading" their 2kg class rotary hammers to higher speeds.

My current "bread and butter" cordless rotary hammer is from this generation, it comes with a speed of 1400 rpm @ 2.4J single impact/ blow energy. (Obviously its not the Hilti pictured in first post.)

I was curious to find out what that would do to different drill bits - when used in concrete/ reinforced concrete. To answer that directly, it eats drill bits at an incredible ratio.

Since my first post was about the dust extraction drill bits, let's start with one of them.

So this is - for reason of comparability - a 6mm (branded) Heller Duster Expert SDS-plus dust extraction drill bit after approx. 25 holes in (reinforced) concrete !without! going through any rebar.

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If you compare this to the same make/model drill bit in post #1 - that had drilled at least 3 maybe 4 times as many holes when it expired. However, that was at way less speed and often with reduced impact/blow energy as the Hilti offers such a setting.

You can see the wear & tear is incredible. And while it is not expired yet, I'd be surprised if I get another +- 25 holes out of it - at the higher speed.

Now one could say that's because, as I said, they are little divas. But wait, there's another (regular) SDS-plus drill bit in the picture. Shall we take a closer look? Let's change focus.

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Now that obviously hit rebar, but don't let that fool you. These current generation 4 edges/cutters can go through rebar and will do so without any issues if you do not apply any excessive pressure and just let the rotary hammer work. Pull it back two or maybe three times in the process and you'll most likely get a couple of successful rebar cuts from such a drill bit.

At least thats how it used to be.

With the higher speed now that doesn't really work out anymore, or I probably should say the ratio of expired drill bits vs. drilled holes/ cut rebar is not looking good anymore. Now this is a 6mm SDS-plus drill bit.

It get's worse with 5mm SDS-plus drill bits. One was a 4 edges/cutters the other one a 2 edges/cutters head.

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And really, this has nothing to do with the quality of the drill bits. All of them are high-end drill bits of indisputable quality/ from indisputable high-end manufacturers. But the high speed is what ultimately kills them. For me, it used to be a rarity to have an expired regular SDS-plus drill bit like that, it was much more likely that I would wear them down to the point that I would have trouble getting the wall plug in and then retiring them to "chisel duty". (Worn out small diameter SDS-plus drill bits make incredible small/fine chisels when you have to precisely remove mortar/grouting from joints.)

All that said, it's not that this couldn't have happened with older generation 2kg class rotary hammers. 4, 5 and 6 mm drill bits are almost "fragile" compared to their peers from 8mm and upwards.

But the ratio between successful cuts/ pass throughs vs. expired drill bits is much better with slower speed and lower single impact/blow energy.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

And there is a new kid in town.

Würth introduced a new style of dust extraction drill bits, or let's just say that is where I noticed them first.

With this new drill bit, you no longer extract dust through holes in the actual drill bit, but rather have a cutting head followed by a really minimal flute portion, running inside a sleeve through which the drilling dust and debris is extracted.

This will even further minimize clogging and highly likely speed up the drilling process quite a bit.

This link takes you to two pictures comparing the "old" to the "new" style head, sadly it is not available in English - or at least I haven't found it yet. But that doesn't really matter when looking at the pictures:
https://www.wuerth.de/web/de/awkg/aktionen/saugbohrer.php

The product sites are available in English:

SDS-plus ->https://eshop.wuerth.de/Product-cat...ro-L/14017501051806.cyid/1401.cgid/en/US/EUR/

SDS-max ->https://eshop.wuerth.de/Product-cat...ro-L/14017501051904.cyid/1401.cgid/en/US/EUR/

SDS-plus starts at 12mm and goes up to 20mm, SDS-max starts at 20mm and goes up to 32mm.

Since SDS-plus only starts at 12mm, it will probably be a while before I can actually test these myself - as I don't use 12mm and up that often - but next time I need to, I will purchase one of these in the size I need and then test it/ find out what I like about it.

I think it's great there is another innovation in this field and I will try to find out more when I can.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Videos:

 

[rst]

Diablo showed new drill in tube extraction at the World of Concrete exhibition, various U-Tubers showed them.  The dust extraction part that attached to the tubes is universal to all the sizes available and is separate.  It is used over and over.

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much for pointing that out! I will have a look at Diablo, they didn't came up with my initial research for more information on these.

Would you happen to have a link to one of those videos so I don't have to randomly go through all the World of Concrete YT content? Would be highly appreciated!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[rst]

I'll take a look, I watched a couple different ones...  Diablo Tools | NEW Amped Rebar Demon | World Of Concrete 2024 - A Concord Carpenter.  I did a Youtube search...World of Concrete + Diablo

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much! Watching it right now.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

As probably most know: Diablo -> Freud -> Bosch. From what I know now, these are made by Bosch in Germany, (since the "Hawera" brand was abandoned some time ago and everything is "Bosch" now anyway).

SDS-plus:https://www.bosch-professional.com/...-fuer-chemische-verankerungen-3043884-ocs-ac/

SDS-max:https://www.bosch-professional.com/...-fuer-chemische-verankerungen-3043888-ocs-ac/

Little hard to find, as they market them for chemical fastening/ anchoring. But they have been featured in Bosch's latest flyer (Germany).

All that said, I didn't want to wait and simply bought the 12mm 200mm working length variant from one of my preferred dealers today and it should already be in transit and arrive next week. I'm curious & with the newly acquired knowledge l was able to get much better pricing - that made the point that I'm not actually needing this immediately simply moot.

Oh, and if these work as advertised, the thread can be re-named - as the "diva'esque behavior" will then be eliminated.

On another note, Bosch also has a new "drilling dust nozzle":https://www.bosch-professional.com/de/de/expert-sds-clean-adapter-zum-bohren-3037866-ocs-ac/

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

I understand there is not much interest in this topic, so I will let it rest - just adding a few pictures of that "new" drill bit that Diablo sells under the name "Amped Rebar Demon". It's made by Bosch in Germany. Got it earlier this week. It is also exactly the same as the one that I found first from Würth.

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As you can see, "blocking" these, as in being unusable herein after, will be close to impossible as these can be taken apart and cleaned. The manual, just a single page, recommends to clean these after use - by taking them apart.

I look forward to using it, probably will get the other sizes, phasing out my mixed collection of large SDS-plus drill bits as the need arises. But that will take time, as I don't use these large diameters regularly.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

One update - resting topic or not - I think is important to give, I had a failure with one of these. It was replaced under warranty/ my trusted dealer exchanged it - but I have not gotten any feedback beyond that.

I drilled a couple of holes with it, and at some point noticed that way to much of the drill bit’s tip was exposed/ way beyond the usable fluted portion that is supposed to transport the debris and dust into the tubing.

After examination I found that the tubing had separated from the adapter and moved in both directions with minimal effort.

Whatever it is they used to join the tube and black plastic adapter must have given up. My guess it is either some sort of glue or a process involving heat, maybe both - I don’t know.

So just a heads-up for future reference, this can happen. I didn’t do anything you’re not supposed to do with such a drill bit. And I will say, dust and debris collection is excellent when they work.

Kind regards,
Oliver

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[Cheese]

I understand there is not much interest in this topic, so I will let it rest - just adding a few pictures of that "new" drill bit that Diablo sells under the name "Amped Rebar Demon". It's made by Bosch in Germany. Got it earlier this week. It is also exactly the same as the one that I found first from Würth.

Thanks for a look at the disassembled Bosch bit Oliver... [smile]...now I have a better understanding on how they work. I think it's mandatory for them to be disassembled to be properly cleaned, otherwise your previous experiences will be repeated.  [sad]  Any small amount of moisture combined with cement dust will spell disaster for a bit that cannot be disassembled.

Do you know if the latest Milwaukee offerings are still manufactured by Drebo or did they switch to another manufacturer?

 

[six-point socket II]

Speaking of the “Dust-Lok” offerings, I do not have any information that would suggest otherwise.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[usernumber1]

just wanted to thank you for posting all these, i think you underestimate the demand.

there's not as much concrete drilling in the NA but that is changing slowly with a lot of smaller new construction going ICF and the new requirements for silica dust controls on job sites. There's also a densification happening and with that more concrete for taller dwellings

keep the updates going please