New bandsaw- would you accept this?

[AlexThePalex]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should definitely be in order..

 

[shaneymack]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should definitely be in order.

Youre right Alex, im quite flawed [emoji6]

 

[Greg M]

I just called the laguna rep again to get an update. He said that if they replace the saw completely there won't be any compensation like a blade or mobile base because it will cost them a lot to ship it and pick the other one up. IF they replace pieces then they would give me a blade or a base as compensation. IF they do agree to give me the drift master they would not replace the table only the throat plate and the motor covers. I think option 2 and 3 are ok but option 1 seems weird that they would not compensate me when i have to stay home again another day of work to wait for the delivery and still go through a hassle. What do you think?

Right there that company shows that they have very little concern for their customers, especially ones they view as single purchase customers.  If they're so concerned about what it's going to cost them to make things right then maybe they should be a little more careful about the crap they send out of their warehouse!

This lack of CS tells me to never buy anything that has their name on it. 

I'd except nothing short of a full refund and go somewhere else.  There are other saws and dealers out there that would bend over backwards to satisfy customers.

I would forward the link to this thread to that @%!~ rep so he can see his screw-up.  This is a board filled with the type of people that they would want as their customers, people willing to spend top $$$ on top of the line tools.

If you still want to keep it, and I can't understand why you would, approach him like this:
Ask him what they sell reconditioned units for.  Then tell him you want all the needed parts AND a discount in line with what a refurb would cost.  That's what he's asking you to accept!!  He wants you to refurb the product yourself and they get off cheap by supplying the parts!?!?!?!?  NO WAY!

 

[Greg M]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should not be unreasonable.

Bull
The company sent out a piece of crap.  They sold him a new saw knowing that it was damaged!  He deserves to be compensated in some way.  This was an intentional attempt to unload a damaged product while presenting it as new.  This wasn't unintentional or some accident.

 

[shaneymack]

I just called the laguna rep again to get an update. He said that if they replace the saw completely there won't be any compensation like a blade or mobile base because it will cost them a lot to ship it and pick the other one up. IF they replace pieces then they would give me a blade or a base as compensation. IF they do agree to give me the drift master they would not replace the table only the throat plate and the motor covers. I think option 2 and 3 are ok but option 1 seems weird that they would not compensate me when i have to stay home again another day of work to wait for the delivery and still go through a hassle. What do you think?

Right there that company shows that they have very little concern for their customers, especially ones they view as single purchase customers.  If they're so concerned about what it's going to cost them to make things right then maybe they should be a little more careful about the crap they send out of their warehouse!

This lack of CS tells me to never buy anything that has their name on it. 

I'd except nothing short of a full refund and go somewhere else.  There are other saws and dealers out there that would bend over backwards to satisfy customers.

I would forward the link to this thread to that @%!~ rep so he can see his screw-up.  This is a board filled with the type of people that they would want as their customers, people willing to spend top $$$ on top of the line tools.

If you still want to keep it, and I can't understand why you would, approach him like this:
Ask him what they sell reconditioned units for.  Then tell him you want all the needed parts AND a discount in line with what a refurb would cost.  That's what he's asking you to accept!!  He wants you to refurb the product yourself and they get off cheap by supplying the parts!?!?!?!?  NO WAY!

He said a scratched machine would be about 10-15% discount. So i guess thats why he said if they give me pieces they will compensate me with a blade.
I think having the saw replaced might be the right path, i just think they should take into consideration that i have stay home from work for a day again waiting to receive a new delivery and my time for unpacking and assembly again.  That's why i thought it would be a nice gesture to throw in a blade regardless especially seeing as it probably costs them dollars to produce.....

 

[shaneymack]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should not be unreasonable.

Bull
The company sent out a piece of crap.  They sold him a new saw knowing that it was damaged!  He deserves to be compensated in some way.  This was an intentional attempt to unload a damaged product while presenting it as new.  This wasn't unintentional or some accident.

The rep still thinks it is a shipping issue so he needs to speak with my dealer to see what they are willing to do. I think laguna is placing partial blame on my dealer because he says that ALL saws are unpacked and inspected once they arrive at laguna headquarters. He says its the dealers responsibility to inspect it once it arrives there and my responsibility to inspect it once it arrives here. I reiterated that the box was in good condition and i didnt think it was a shipping problem.

 

[Greg M]

I just called the laguna rep again to get an update. He said that if they replace the saw completely there won't be any compensation like a blade or mobile base because it will cost them a lot to ship it and pick the other one up. IF they replace pieces then they would give me a blade or a base as compensation. IF they do agree to give me the drift master they would not replace the table only the throat plate and the motor covers. I think option 2 and 3 are ok but option 1 seems weird that they would not compensate me when i have to stay home again another day of work to wait for the delivery and still go through a hassle. What do you think?

Right there that company shows that they have very little concern for their customers, especially ones they view as single purchase customers.  If they're so concerned about what it's going to cost them to make things right then maybe they should be a little more careful about the crap they send out of their warehouse!

This lack of CS tells me to never buy anything that has their name on it. 

I'd except nothing short of a full refund and go somewhere else.  There are other saws and dealers out there that would bend over backwards to satisfy customers.

I would forward the link to this thread to that @%!~ rep so he can see his screw-up.  This is a board filled with the type of people that they would want as their customers, people willing to spend top $$$ on top of the line tools.

If you still want to keep it, and I can't understand why you would, approach him like this:
Ask him what they sell reconditioned units for.  Then tell him you want all the needed parts AND a discount in line with what a refurb would cost.  That's what he's asking you to accept!!  He wants you to refurb the product yourself and they get off cheap by supplying the parts!?!?!?!?  NO WAY!

He said a scratched machine would be about 10-15% discount. So i guess thats why he said if they give me pieces they will compensate me with a blade.
I think having the saw replaced might be the right path, i just think they should take into consideration that i have stay home from work for a day again waiting to receive a new delivery and my time for unpacking and assembly again.  That's why i thought it would be a nice gesture to throw in a blade regardless especially seeing as it probably costs them dollars to produce.....

That's a lot more then a scratch.  If I was standing there with you talking about this I'd ask, what's the attachment to this particular saw that's making you willing to compromise?  I'd also say that you shouldn't be dealing with a company rep, you should be dealing with the dealer.  The dealer holds more weight then you when dealing with the company.  That rep doesn't want the dealer to know that they knowingly sent you a piece of crap.  The dealer should be the only one you're talking to.

 

[Greg M]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should not be unreasonable.

Bull
The company sent out a piece of crap.  They sold him a new saw knowing that it was damaged!  He deserves to be compensated in some way.  This was an intentional attempt to unload a damaged product while presenting it as new.  This wasn't unintentional or some accident.

The rep still thinks it is a shipping issue so he needs to speak with my dealer to see what they are willing to do. I think laguna is placing partial blame on my dealer because he says that ALL saws are unpacked and inspected once they arrive at laguna headquarters. He says its the dealers responsibility to inspect it once it arrives there and my responsibility to inspect it once it arrives here. I reiterated that the box was in good condition and i didnt think it was a shipping problem.

The more that rep opens his mouth the more damage he does to his company's reputation!  I wonder what the president of the company would say if he found out what was going on and what's being posted in this thread?

NOTHING like this would happen if this was a Festool product.

 

[shaneymack]

I just called the laguna rep again to get an update. He said that if they replace the saw completely there won't be any compensation like a blade or mobile base because it will cost them a lot to ship it and pick the other one up. IF they replace pieces then they would give me a blade or a base as compensation. IF they do agree to give me the drift master they would not replace the table only the throat plate and the motor covers. I think option 2 and 3 are ok but option 1 seems weird that they would not compensate me when i have to stay home again another day of work to wait for the delivery and still go through a hassle. What do you think?

Right there that company shows that they have very little concern for their customers, especially ones they view as single purchase customers.  If they're so concerned about what it's going to cost them to make things right then maybe they should be a little more careful about the crap they send out of their warehouse!

This lack of CS tells me to never buy anything that has their name on it. 

I'd except nothing short of a full refund and go somewhere else.  There are other saws and dealers out there that would bend over backwards to satisfy customers.

I would forward the link to this thread to that @%!~ rep so he can see his screw-up.  This is a board filled with the type of people that they would want as their customers, people willing to spend top $$$ on top of the line tools.

If you still want to keep it, and I can't understand why you would, approach him like this:
Ask him what they sell reconditioned units for.  Then tell him you want all the needed parts AND a discount in line with what a refurb would cost.  That's what he's asking you to accept!!  He wants you to refurb the product yourself and they get off cheap by supplying the parts!?!?!?!?  NO WAY!

He said a scratched machine would be about 10-15% discount. So i guess thats why he said if they give me pieces they will compensate me with a blade.
I think having the saw replaced might be the right path, i just think they should take into consideration that i have stay home from work for a day again waiting to receive a new delivery and my time for unpacking and assembly again.  That's why i thought it would be a nice gesture to throw in a blade regardless especially seeing as it probably costs them dollars to produce.....

That's a lot more then a scratch.  If I was standing there with you talking about this I'd ask, what's the attachment to this particular saw that's making you willing to compromise?  I'd also say that you shouldn't be dealing with a company rep, you should be dealing with the dealer.  The dealer holds more weight then you when dealing with the company.  That rep doesn't want the dealer to know that they knowingly sent you a piece of crap.  The dealer should be the only one you're talking to.

Its not that im willing to compromise, i  can only take the options that they give me. The saw is in my garage and i signed for it and paid for it. Im not going to freak out and burn the bridge and then they tell me to go to hell with my saw.

 

[Greg M]

It's not their's, or any other company's concern that you have to make arrangements to stay home. It's the cost of doing business with large or expensive deliveries. That's just the way it is. It may aggrieve you, and you may not agree with it, but it is just the cost of doing business.

This would be my recommendation - you need to test the saw. Nothing else really matters until you do. If the saw works fine and it is cosmetic issues, take the discount or free stuff. If not, send it back.

Except when it's obvious that this saw was shipped from the factory like this.  That makes things completely different.  Their negligence or their deceptive actions has cause their customer to miss 2 days of work instead of 1 plus all the additional time required to assemble 2 saws, disassemble and repackage 1 saw.

 

[grbmds]

Although the whole issue of shipping is always a big deal, Laguna shouldn't even think twice about it. For me, I would accept nothing less than a brand new saw because you obviously made the choice to buy this saw as is without any extras. I can understand that the company would just want to replace what you bought. You obviously should not have to pay any shipping either to return or get the new one.

I also would agree that the dealer is who you should be dealing with since he is the one who got your business and, I assume, would want to keep your good will for future business or at least recommendations to others. It doesn't seem to be the dealer's fault, but it is something he sold you so should want it be just right.

Personally, I would try to get the machine sent back and a full refund, including any shipping you paid. There are a lot of bandsaws out there, many at a much lower price. Depending on what you want to do with it, I believe most would serve your needs. Michael Fortune, a well-known professional woodworker from Canada uses a Ridgid bandsaw for some things and told the students in a class of his I attended that he uses other bandsaws that aren't top of the line. It's really not the saw, but the setup of the of guides, blade installation, blade tension (to a lesser degree) that are important. Carter (the bandsaw accessory company) swears the same. I've followed Alex Snodgrass's setup steps (from Carter) and I swear by that process. My Rikon 14" resaws flawlessly and that saw has a 1 1/2 hp 110V motor. My point is that, even with this saw (about $800 - $975 depending on sale prices in the US), I get great results proving you don't have to own an expensive saw to resaw well.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think if they replace the saw completely you should not focus too much on compensation. Be happy you (hopefully) get  the product as you originally expected. If you're the type of person who wants to have compensation every time you have some discomfort (not saying you are), then I think that's a character flaw.

But, if you decide to go for an "inbetween" solution, some compensation for you having to live with a less than perfect saw should definitely be in order.

Youre right Alex, im quite flawed [emoji6]

Don't know the [emoji6] so I can't say if you're being facetious or sarcastic. My comment was not meant to offend you, I was just speaking in general terms, sometimes when dealing with people or companies problems can arise and you have to be tolerant to solve the matter in the most elegant matter. From what I'm reading so far in this thread you're being very open minded and tolerant.

Bull
The company sent out a piece of crap.  They sold him a new saw knowing that it was damaged!  He deserves to be compensated in some way.  This was an intentional attempt to unload a damaged product while presenting it as new.  This wasn't unintentional or some accident.

Unlike Greg though, you seem to be very hard on them. By saying this is intentional you jump to conclusions and assume the worst while you don't have enough information to come to that conclusion. Many things could have happened. I sincerely doubt a company like Laguna becomes this big by screwing over their customers intentionally.

Of course in Europe we don't have such a libelous society. Consumer law here dictates if a product doesn't reach you in perfect condition the company who sold it to you is responsible for replacing it with a good product at their cost. By law, there is no compensation needed and not to be expected. They're free of course to give it on their own to sooth your troubles and maintain a good relationship with the client.

 

[peter halle]

Exchange it for a new saw and be done with it.  Getting a new saw and then additional "compensation" won't work in the majority of the retail world.  Take the high road and remember that at some time in the future you might need Laguna's assistance.

Peter

 

[shaneymack]

Exchange it for a new saw and be done with it.  Getting a new saw and then additional "compensation" won't work in the majority of the retail world.  Take the high road and remember that at some time in the future you might need Laguna's assistance.

Peter

Sounds like a plan Peter. I really want to be "done with it" trust me. It seems to be taking a long time on their end. Im definitely not holding up the process.

 

[GregBradley]

Well, I'm convinced that if I decide to buy a Laguna saw I will drive my truck down to their warehouse and inspect it myself before they load it in my truck.

 

[Iceclimber]

Return it and get one of these.

http://www.agazzani.it/agazzani-gb/bandsaws/bandsaws.php

Done!

 

[grbmds]

Return it and get one of these.

http://www.agazzani.it/agazzani-gb/bandsaws/bandsaws.php

Done!

Not to get sidetracked, but do you have one? I can't imagine my bandsaw needs justifying any of these. I would imagine just getting them to the US would be expensive, much less the cost of the saw.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

The Agazzani is nothing more then the same italian saw that is rebadged by numerous companies.

You can find the SCM, SCMI, Conturo, etc. all the time at industrial auctions or used machinery dealers.  They are still a welded steel frame saw that in all honesty, is not that impressive in person.

There are plenty of really good used saws in the 20 to 27" range available for the picking, for good prices, that have and will outlast one of these welded steel frame saws.

This saw set me back about as much as one of those fancy bands you are trying to get for free and I only spent another one of those bands making it all pretty, including new tires.



Looked like this:

Runs like this:

 

[Iceclimber]

No i don't have one. I have a Laguna 14/12 its ok but after some time with it it feels a bit like a toy vrs a machine. Still it does what i need it to do just fine so far.

If i had it to do again and when i do it again it will be a Agazzani Felder or Hammer machine. As Werner suggested they are all kinda the same thing.

I love old machines as much as the next guy that loves old machines but unless you have the space, means to move them and time to get them functioning again like a new machine fresh off the pallet its just not practical.

My uncle has a giant 36" plus Oliver bandsaw wrapped in a giant mesh cage. In my honest opinion the thing is kinda pile. It has no fence needs a ginormous space to house it and a huge machine and vehicle to move it. It never gets used. Much smaller more manageable machines get used that sit right next to it. Mostly Grizzly and Delta products from the 79/80's. He acquired the machine when he purchased his business from a previous owner.  I think he keeps it only because it is easier to leave it where it is then deal with getting rid of it?

Just not practical as beautiful as the machine is. Of course much smaller vintage machines can be had and as Warner suggest can be quite nice.

Return it and get one of these.

http://www.agazzani.it/agazzani-gb/bandsaws/bandsaws.php

Done!

Not to get sidetracked, but do you have one? I can't imagine my bandsaw needs justifying any of these. I would imagine just getting them to the US would be expensive, much less the cost of the saw.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

My 36" saw takes up just a few more square feet then any saw being discussed here.

Oh, I do have the factory fence with my saw, but I rarely use a fence and if I do I normally clamp a board on.

The table is substantially bigger, the saw runs scary smooth and I have cut things with it that would tip over most other saws. 

I moved all these by hand until I recently bought a 50's Yale lift king.

Johnson bars and pipe.